Revolution

[zorro]

The following are some notes transcribed from a lecture given in Jackson earlier this year by Dr. Peter Jones, who was originally from England. They are quite relevant in understanding the culture in which we now find ourselves. Dr. Jones is the author of several books including Stolen Identity: The Conspiracy to Reinvent Jesus and Capturing The Pagan Mind.

If you define a revolution as the cutting off at its roots of a culture’s relationship with its past, I do not believe 1776 was anything like a revolution. The French Revolution was a revolution: when they started re-dating the years, when they renamed the months, when they redefined the week as a 10-day week.....The revolutions that we have seen in the past, the French Revolution and the Russian Revolution, those were revolutions. I would argue with you that the revolution that has really changed America was not 1776, but the revolution of the sixties. Do you agree with me? Some of you don’t, so I will read you this list of revolutionary changes that have occurred in my lifetime as I have come to America in 1964, observed America, left America, and come back to America in 1991.

I have seen a massive change in this wonderful, once deeply Christian culture. I will read you this list of the victory of certain cultural movements over others. Some of them have succeeded beyond their wildest imaginations. Some of them are in the process of pulling off this victory. I will try to read it without comment, but it is very difficult.

1. The victory of the sexually liberated over the sexually inhibited.
2. The victory of the sexually active young over virgins.
3. The victory of recreational sex over procreational sex.
4. Condoms over abstinence.
5. Cohabitation over marriage.
6. Divorce over lifelong monogamy.
7. A woman’s right to abort her child over the unborn child’s right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
8. A collapsing birth rate over the baby boom.
9. The victory of women as breadwinners over women as bread makers and homemakers.
10. The victory of the feminists over the patriarchs.
11. The victory of Ms. over Miss and Mrs.
12. The victory of humankind over mankind.
13. The victory of Earth-kind over humankind.
14. The victory of gay rights over parents rights.
15. The victory of gays over the straights.
16. The victory of gay marriage as a moral value over sodomy as amorally outrageous.
17. The victory of an "omni-gendered" society. The last count was about 14 different genders that you can now use over the normality of male and female.
18. The victory of moral chaos over moral consensus.
19. The victory of relative truth over absolute truth.
20. The victory of rights and entitlements over responsibilities and service.
21. The victory of the "Me" generation over the "We" generation.
22. The victory of immediate gratification over deferred gratification.
23. The victory of lust over modesty.
24. The victory of self-interested lying over spontaneous truth telling.
25. The victory of the new history over patriotic history, where Columbus is the villain rather than the hero.
26. The victory of indigenous people day over Columbus Day.
27. The victory of multiculturalists over the American melting pot.
28. The victory of the pluribus over the unum.
29. The victory of government by the courts over government by the consent of the people.
30. The victory of the living constitution over the written constitution.
31. The victory of the global over the national.
32. The victory of the Earth charter over the American Constitution. The Earth charter being a document that is already written by the United Nations that will determine the way we live on this planet in the years to come. More and more, that charter will take the place of the American Constitution.
33. The victory of the image over the book....... We, as Christians, depend upon the book. You can talk about the video culture all you like, but the Word became Flesh, and then It became Text. There is no way out of that for Christianity. While we can make some kind of compromise with the video culture, we must never, ever forget the Book.
34. The victory of post-modern over modernity.
35. The victory of the leftist faculty over the academic debate.
36. The victory of education for ideological engineering over education for academic pursuit.
37. The victory of politically correct speech over free speech.
38. Of partisan commentary over dispassionate news reporting.
39. Of information over understanding.
40. The victory of the irrational over the rational.
41. The victory of Earth-based spiritualists over the materialists.
42. The victory of the rest of Creation over human beings.
43. In some places in California, the victory of pet-carers over pet-owners. Notice the subtle difference.
44. Of Eastern medicine over Western.
45. Of Eastern spirituality over Western spirituality.
46. The victory of the death of God over God as Creator and the sustainer of life.
47. The victory of the goddess over God.
48. The victory of "The Force" over the personal God of the Bible.
49. The victory of post-Christian culture over Christendom.
50. The victory of spirituality over doctrine.
51. The victory of natural revelation over special.
52. The victory of the many ways over the one way.
53. Of all the world’s holy books over the Bible.
54. Of the gnostic gospel of Thomas over the biblical gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
55. The victory of BCE/CE over BC/AD. In the last twenty years, academics of all kinds, including Christians, now refer to time as BCE or CE (before common era......,before common to whom no one has ever answered that question.) It sounds a little like BC. In terms of a cultural revolution, it means that Christ is no longer considered the center of history.
56. Of course with that, we have the victory of winter break over Christmas; and of Earth Day and spring break over Easter.
57. The victory of the Age of Aquarius over the Age of Pisces.
58. Of multi-faith pagan America over Christian America.

I look at periods in history, and this is one of the most radically changed periods in history that I can see. Without, of course, a shot being fired. Leading the West, America in one generation, has abandoned 2000 years of Christian civilization, and the West is returning to the pre-Christian paganism of the Greco-Roman world.



Note: There were a couple of words that I couldn't understand when I first posted this (these were located in #17 and #38 above), but these have now been corrected.

[58ford]

Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm.

[58ford]

The victory of Betty over over every less-than-betty-chick!

[Conveyor Belt]

9. The victory of women as breadwinners over women as bread makers and homemakers.

Are you serious??? If it's unchristian for a woman to be the sole provider, then...

[zorro]

I think that you're missing the point altogether (possibly intentionally so).

[big john]

The victory of bullsh!t over horsesh!t:smt038

[SoMissTV]

I think that you're missing the point altogether (possibly intentionally so).

Okay, I'll bite: what's the point?

[SoMissTV]

Are you serious??? If it's unchristian for a woman to be the sole provider, then...

I guess that means I'm going to he!! cause my wife makes more than me?

[Conveyor Belt]

I guess that means I'm going to he!! cause my wife makes more than me?

No, you have to don an apron and get in there and start making the bread (literal) and the home. I'd gladly be the bread and home maker if my wife made enough... I make a mean loaf of bread.

[nooskye]

Just curious ... What else could we call ourselves besides male and female????

"17. The victory of an (????) gendered society. The last count was about 14 different genders that you can now use over the normality of male and female."

[nooskye]

No, you have to don an apron and get in there and start making the bread (literal) and the home. I'd gladly be the bread and home maker if my wife made enough... I make a mean loaf of bread.


My husband would rather be at home too ... and he gives me the same excuse for him staying at home and me going to work ... ???? ... Problem is ... I'm the one who holds the degree ... What kind of sense does that make???

[Conveyor Belt]

28. The victory of the pluribus over the unum.

I thought America was founded on the will of the pluribus. It was all about the pluribus trouncing the will imposed by an unum.

[zorro]

I just noticed that Dr. Jones on his website has posted a summary of the lecture that he gave in Jackson earlier this year (the part that started this thread above), and I have corrected the 2 words that I couldn't understand at that time.

You can find his article titled "The True American Revolution" here: http://www.spirit-wars.com/articles.asp?section=Newsletter

[zorro]

I thought America was founded on the will of the pluribus. It was all about the pluribus trouncing the will imposed by an unum.

E pluribus unum, one of our country's first national mottos, being translated from Latin, means "From many, one" or 'Out of many, one". This motto referred to the integration of the 13 independent colonies into one united country. Interestingly, the motto itself symbolically has 13 letters.

In 1994, Vice President Al Gore turned our national motto upside down in a speech to the Institute of World Affairs. He was pushing a multicultural model for America when he claimed that "E Pluribus Unum" meant "Out of One, Many."

In the link provided above in my last post, Dr. Jones puts it this way:

the multi-culturalists over the American melting pot, or the pluribus over the unum

[Conveyor Belt]

Are you sure you got the Gore quote right? Because the way it reads now, Gore said it correctly. I'm no fan of Gore, I'm just confused by your post.

[zorro]

Read it again.

[zorro]

In the initial post in this thread, I noted that Dr. Jones was the author of a book titled Stolen Identity: The Conspiracy to Reinvent Jesus. I have been reading this book this month and it is an excellent book contrasting the Gnostic Jesus (who has had a revival of sorts in the past half-century) with the biblical Jesus. This may not seem relevant or interesting at first glance, but in reality, it is both. I highly recommend this book not only in order to better understand our present culture, but also to better understand several core issues that the scriptures address.

[Astra]

Just curious ... What else could we call ourselves besides male and female????

"17. The victory of an (????) gendered society. The last count was about 14 different genders that you can now use over the normality of male and female."
I'd love to see where he pulled that number from. I can't come up with anything, even if he was using "gender" interchangeably with "sexual orientation" that would amount to 14. Unless maybe he's counting paraphilias, but that has absolutely nothing to do with gender.

Of course, based on the rest of his rantings, I'm not inclined to believe he'd really put a lot of effort into getting those terms right.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll just drop out of school and get back in the kitchen to do my part in saving our poor victimized nation :roll:

[Conveyor Belt]

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll just drop out of school and get back in the kitchen to do my part in saving our poor victimized nation :roll:

You better be barefoot and pregnant, too!

[Conveyor Belt]

In the initial post in this thread, I noted that Dr. Jones was the author of a book titled Stolen Identity: The Conspiracy to Reinvent Jesus. I have been reading this book this month and it is an excellent book contrasting the Gnostic Jesus (who has had a revival of sorts in the past half-century) with the biblical Jesus. This may not seem relevant or interesting at first glance, but in reality, it is both. I highly recommend this book not only in order to better understand our present culture, but also to better understand several core issues that the scriptures address.

I don't know where my post went, so I'll try this again:

I'd be interested in reading this book. I've always had trouble with Bible Jesus vs. Church Jesus. In churches, Jesus is your friend, pal, saviour, etc. but in the Bible, Jesus is a bit frustrated and angry at the state of the world. I've always had trouble devining where churches get their message from the Bible, but that's just me.

[Conveyor Belt]

This is going to get lost, but I'm currently reading "The China Study", a book about the findings of a 27 year study of nutriton in over 100 areas of China and how it relates to disease. Really facinating, but not if you want to continue to eat the American diet, which I've recently abandoned.

[zorro]

Hey CB,

I think that your last post above is going to get lost because you posted it here instead of in the "What are you reading?" thread.

[zorro]

I've always had trouble with Bible Jesus vs. Church Jesus. In churches, Jesus is your friend, pal, saviour, etc. but in the Bible
Jesus is certainly the friend of sinners primarily because he is the only Savior of those sinners who see themselves as such, and thus, justly under the wrath of a holy God; and these who recognize God's plan of salvation (the good news or gospel of Jesus Christ) flee to him for salvation from their sins. When they do so, they become God's children as well as His servants. They are never Jesus' "pal" or "bosum buddy" however.

Jesus is a bit frustrated and angry at the state of the world. I really don't think that "a bit frustrated" is a phrase that can be used in all honesty about the true Jesus, i.e., the Jesus of the NT scriptures. He was certainly angry about sin in the world, but He was not "a bit frustrated". He accomplished what he came to do.

“She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins." – Matthew 1:21<O:p</O:p

[Conveyor Belt]

I get the vibe of frustration because of how he's so pensive all the time.

[zorro]

I get the vibe of frustration because of how he's so pensive all the time.

I'm not sure that "pensive" is the correct word. Perhaps, a better way of expressing what you see would be "soberness". By being "sober", I mean "marked by seriousness, gravity, solemnity, and self-control". Of course, it would have been inappropriate for the Savior of the world to have been otherwise. This wasn't an expression of frustration however.

[Conveyor Belt]

I'm not sure that "pensive" is the correct word. Perhaps, a better way of expressing what you see would be "soberness". By being "sober", I mean "marked by seriousness, gravity, solemnity, and self-control". Of course, it would have been inappropriate for the Savior of the world to have been otherwise. This wasn't an expression of frustration however.


Pensive is the word I meant to use and, for me, it's the word that applies to my feelings about the NT.

[zorro]

Pensive is the word I meant to use and, for me, it's the word that applies to my feelings about the NT.

OK, define what you mean by the word "pensive" when you use it of Christ or the NT.

[Conveyor Belt]

pensive, as defined by me, means lost in thought to the point of disconnection with people

[zorro]

pensive, as defined by me, means lost in thought to the point of disconnection with people

In all honesty, that particular Jesus is not found in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament.

[kevin]

Maybe you should not try and debate the meaning of the true JESUS and believe that he indeed was for all of us as he is today.I know people can find a million reasons to question Jesus and his purpose but perhaps you can accept his love and devine forgiveness and sacrifice as many Do it's good to believe in something better that that of yourself which he is and his love which is greater than my ability to understand and yours.If there is one thing certain is in what we don't see being eternal .His love for all of us....There is room for all of us in his kingdom or shall those debate his purpose.....Jesus was never about anger and has none today or always....I do like CB's Asian diet my professor is a PHd of chinese medicine and she is a genius in the field.I don't understand the mention of jesus here but whatever....

[Conveyor Belt]

In all honesty, that particular Jesus is not found in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament.

That's your opinion.

[zorro]

It's more than my opinion; it's a fact. :smt045

[Conveyor Belt]

It's more than my opinion; it's a fact. :smt045

http://upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060925-055616-9311r

WASHINGTON, Sept. 25 (UPI) -- The U.S. Department of Homeland Security is funding a research project designed to teach computers to scan text and then sort opinion from fact.

The project involves Cornell University Professor of Computer Science Claire Cardie and associate professors of computer science Janyce Wiebe of the University of Pittsburgh and Ellen Riloff of the University of Utah.

The consortium is one of four University Affiliate Centers to conduct research on advanced methods for information analysis and to develop computational technologies that contribute to national security.

"Lots of work has been done on extracting factual information -- the who, what, where, when," explained Cardie. "We're interested in seeing how we would extract information about opinions."

The scientists will use machine-learning algorithms to give computers examples of text expressing both fact and opinion and then teach them to tell the difference.

Maybe you need to go to these computer programmers so they can teach you the difference between fact and opinion. I've long since given up on you, but they may be able to shed some light on your inability to grasp the concept. :)

[zorro]

I would never place the opinion of computer programmers as fact over against the plain teaching of the Word of God.

[zorro]

Actions display beliefs. In the initial post of this thread, there is a list of changes noted there which reflect certain beliefs which underlie these changes. One underlying belief that occurred in the Sixties and certainly helped to contribute to some of the changes noted in the initial post of this thread is mentioned in a book titled Souls and Bodies by David Lodge. In that book we find the following words:

At some point in the nineteen-sixties, Hell disappeared. No one could say for certain when this happened. First it was there, then it wasn't. Different people became aware of the disappearance of Hell at different times. Some realized that they had been living for years as though Hell did not exist, without having consciously registered its disappearance. Others realized that they had been behaving, out of habit, as though Hell were still there, though in fact they had ceased to believe in its existence long ago. . . . On the whole, the disappearance of Hell was a great relief, though it brought new problems.