Petal Murals

[politically incorrect]

I noticed that James Moore posts on this forum, so I thought I might pass along my opinion on all of the murals being painted on the sides of buildings in Petal. - I don't like them. In my opinion, and those of some others I have spoken with, we are beginning to look like the Barrio with all of the paintings on walls. One or two that are nicely done is ok, but to encourage everyone to add one to their business is too much. The one on Roger's Pharmacy looks terrible, as does the weird looking one on the side of the exercise therapy place across from Burger King.

I support much of what Petal is trying to do, but not this. Isn't there some other way to improve the beauty of Petal other than making us look like inner-city L.A.?

I am not bashing Mr. Moore, or any of the other officials, just letting them know that they might want to rethink this particular idea.

[Conveyor Belt]

I like the murals, and after learning that the one on Rogers was designed by the under 10 crowd, which it looks like, I'm okay with that one, too. What's the big deal? It's something different and unique. It's not unsightly, and some of them are interesting. Granted, some of them aren't my cup of tea.

I'm sure there are many people who would support my side and your side in the opinion about the art.

[Maggie-Doodle]

I have always heard that "art" and its beauty is in the "eye" of the beholder....and I agree with that. I know there are many very rare paintings, sculptures that are considered priceless and I think they are the ugliest things I have ever seen. Then there are those who arn't worth a plug nickel and I think they are beautiful! I suppose it really is "to each his own."

[58ford]

I have always heard that "art" and its beauty is in the "eye" of the beholder....and I agree with that. I know there are many very rare paintings, sculptures that are considered priceless and I think they are the ugliest things I have ever seen. Then there are those who arn't worth a plug nickel and I think they are beautiful! I suppose it really is "to each his own."
Yeah, I sort of agree, but, throwing it out there where everyone is forced to look at it unfair.

[James Moore]

Yeah, I sort of agree, but, throwing it out there where everyone is forced to look at it unfair.


So you would agree with me that the billboards need to go?
:) James Moore

[KeepItSimple]

Whether you like it or not is really not the issue. I don't particularly like how colorful they are. But that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. However, the real issue is that those buildings belong to individuals who have chosen to have murals painted on them. And for whatever reason, they like it. No one has the right to tell them not to any more than they have the right to tell me what color to paint my house or what color car to drive. We must learn to live with it or look the other way when we pass those areas.

[kevin]

I met the artist that did El Mariachi Loco he's good.As far as the Rodgers one it's awful but it's the right of the business owners isn't it James or should City Hall dictate That?I would really like to see those Awful Eyesore Old homes that are unoccupied fire hazards taken care of.They need to go for the safety and value of the community not simply cause they aren't up to someones artistic standards.

[James Moore]

Kevin,
At any given time over the past year we've had bout 30 properties in various stages of our condemnation process. We've likely eradicated more derelict properties in the past year and half than in the prior 8 years. (Don't mean to slam other administrations - they also had their priorities and achieved thier own goals)

While we don't hesitate to use the state law that permits us to clear the property then charge the cost to the property taxes, we've had many successes working WITH the property owner to get the problems solved. James Moore

[kevin]

Great that is a work in process I know!It will take time and the legalities I understand slow down the process.Congratulations on this serious problems handled to date.

[Conveyor Belt]

Mr. Moore, I know you covered this slightly in the HA forums, but could you please give the backstory to the mural on Rogers. It changed my perspective of it.

[James Moore]

Mr. Moore, I know you covered this slightly in the HA forums, but could you please give the backstory to the mural on Rogers. It changed my perspective of it.


Gladly,

In doing some research on murals I ran across a quote from Pablo Picasso. Pablo said, "Every child is an artist. The problem is remaining an artist when the child is grown."

I wanted a variety of art styles including work done by professionals (such as on El Mariachi Loco) as well as work done by children. Children who had not yet been convinced that they were no longer artists.

Mrs. Jena Jinks, owner of Jink's Studio, accepted the challenge of a mural featuring the work of children. In my travels I'd seen work that had the elements of children's work but also seemed to have been 'touched up' by the adults when transferred to the building. Jena was intent on presenting the children's work in it's original unaltered forms.

Mrs. Jinks collected art work form Petal students (I'm guessing elementary and middle school based on the size of the kids painting on the wall) and scanned each piece into one work making all fit seamlessly.

The first approach was to color only the portions of artwork that resulted in the outline of an ambulance and a prescription bottle as the building owner wanted a medical theme to tie in with the pharmacy business. But as the work was finished (by the same kids who did the initial designs) the kids voted to paint in all the works so each child's work appeared complete.

Without this background knowledge I understand why this is not every one's favorite mural. It lacks that instant , easy to understand element of simpler murals. However, I feel that art serves it's purpose best when it takes us from where we are and moves us to a level where we previously had not experienced. Art that is immediately understood and agreed upon by all fails to challenge and without challenge we never gain a deeper understanding of ourselves.

So if the work in progress on Roger's Pharmacy has sparked an animated discussion within the community then I'd have to say as an artistic endeavor it is quite successful. May we all rediscover the artist we knew we were as a child. James Moore

[politically incorrect]

I agree that it is the right of business owners to paint their buildings however they wish. I just think that on some buildings the mural theme does not work. I like the one on El Mariachi, and it fits the theme of the building.

On another note, I noticed that Cynthia Holland has painted over the murals done last year by Petal High School students. I hear that this was done in retaliation for the city not allowing her to put up a sign for her business. I also noticed that Walgreen's put up a very nice-looking brick sign at the end of their parking lot and it was torn down the next day or two. Was this a problem for the city, too? What gives? Why can't a business have a respectable-looking sign to attract customers?

And, on another subject, since we mentioned tearing down dilapidated buildings a little earlier on this thread, when is Calvary Baptist Church going to tear down their badly-damaged worship center? It has been over a year since the hurricane and surely dealings with the insurance company should have been settled by now. It is a terrible eye-sore and probably becoming a health hazard as well.

[James Moore]

...On another note, I noticed that Cynthia Holland has painted over the murals done last year by Petal High School students. I hear that this was done in retaliation for the city not allowing her to put up a sign for her business. I also noticed that Walgreen's put up a very nice-looking brick sign at the end of their parking lot and it was torn down the next day or two. Was this a problem for the city, too? What gives? Why can't a business have a respectable-looking sign to attract customers?...


Ms. Holland has every right to put up a sign for her business that meets the regulations of our sign code. She was seeking to put up a sign that exceeded the limits of our sign code. (total size of a business sign is determined by the business frontage - the ratio actually works to the advantage of a small business with limited frontage)

We listened to the reasons given by Ms. Holland as to why we should waive the requirements for her and deemed her reasons insufficient to either break the rules or change the law. Walgreen's had to adhere to our sign code as will Ms. Holland.

As to painting over the student's art work originally requested by Ms. Holland, only Ms. Holland can explain those actions.

Calvary church is an issue that I hope the congregation and thier insurance company can resolve before it becomes a city matter. It does seem to be taking a long time. James Moore

[kevin]

So you would agree with me that the billboards need to go?
:) James Moore

I was wondering what billboards you were speaking of?

[James Moore]

I was wondering what billboards you were speaking of?

Kevin,
In our first year of office our administration passed an ordinance banning billboards in the city of Petal. Legal precedent indicated that a time frame of 7 years was required to allow the companies to come into compliance as billboards represent a substantial investment to construct. In 2012 it shall be unlawful for any billboard to exist in our city. James Moore

[kevin]

I didn't understand fully, sorry.I couldn't agree more with this Ordinance.

[metal protector]

the real issue is that those buildings belong to individuals who have chosen to have murals painted on them. And for whatever reason, they like it. No one has the right to tell them not to any more than they have the right to tell me what color to paint my house or what color car to drive. We must learn to live with it or look the other way when we pass those areas.
:smt038 they own it, let them do what they want to do with it.

[wilebill]

:smt038 they own it, let them do what they want to do with it.Except let people smoke inside it. That would just be wrong. :smt102

[KeepItSimple]

Kevin,
In our first year of office our administration passed an ordinance banning billboards in the city of Petal. Legal precedent indicated that a time frame of 7 years was required to allow the companies to come into compliance as billboards represent a substantial investment to construct. In 2012 it shall be unlawful for any billboard to exist in our city. James Moore


I'm not sure I understand this reasoning. What problem do billboards pose? Are they just an eyesore to some people?

[James Moore]

I'll try a simple analogy to explain my feelings about billboards. If I take a business card from my bicycle shop and crumple it up and toss it out the window of my car on Central Avenue I will have committed a crime for which I could be arrested and jailed or fined.

Yet if I take that same business card and blow it up over a thousand times it's original size then stick it up on the top of a 40' high pole blocking the view of a fellow business owner's establishment and your view of the sunset, then I've committed no crime. I feel that both acts should be criminal. And many cities and several states agree with me.

All forms of advertising offer the intended audience a benefit in exchange for agreeing to be exposed to the paid message. Newspaper offers news, radio offers musical entertainment, TV offers drama, and magazines offer topical information. Even the rubber jar opener imprinted with an advertising message in your kitchen drawer gives you assistance in opening that jar of pickles.

As the intended target audience of advertising messages we each have the option of not viewing the above types of media should we choose. Except for billboards. Billboard advertising is the only advertising medium that takes away our choice to serve as audience member. And in most cases it is the only medium that steals our attention without giving us a benefit in exchange for our involuntary viewing.

Outdoor advertising may have merits to some degree for those traveling on interstates and needing immediate food, gas, and lodging information. Even then, I'd support scaled down less obnoxious visual distraction to the local landscape.

A billboard in the center of Petal benefits the billboard company, the land owner leasing the space to the company, and the advertiser. And it does so at the expense of the visual appeal of our community. Just my opinion. James Moore

[Conveyor Belt]

I can see your point, mr. Moore, but I also disagree with you to a point. Billboards are intertaining and informative. I knew about the forrest county fair through billboard announcments long before I noticed an ad on TV. I knew about the Pendragons long before the print media informed me of them.

While I dislike that one billboard in front of the ambulance depot in petal, I don't dislike billboards in general. They are often informational and let me know what's going on in local businesses, etc.

Since you're against this type of advertising, the kind that steals your attention without giving a beneift in exchange, then are you against people wraping their cars in ads, like the domino's cars? Can I look forward to a city ordinance against advertisments on cars?

[KeepItSimple]

A billboard in the center of Petal benefits the billboard company, the land owner leasing the space to the company, and the advertiser. And it does so at the expense of the visual appeal of our community. Just my opinion. James Moore

Although I agree with most of your input on this site, I must admit this takes me a little by surprise. I can't help but wonder why the land owner's benefit is of any less importance than yours or even mine. And I beleive that in another post on here someone mentioned that they obtained some important information from billboard advertising. Although I don't think all billboards are "attractive", they are all beneficial to someone. And who says that everyone has the same desire to see the sunset?

And, after all, advertising in any form is designed for 1 purpose and that is to draw business into your establishment. I doubt many business people who spend their hard earned capital on advertising would choose the advertising medium based on what brought the most enjoyment to the listener, watcher, etc. The bottom line is what brings in the most business. And, if you drive the same route home every day, billboard advertising is definitely giving the repetitive advantage that advertising must do in order to secure more business.

I can't see the downside to billboard advertising. I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Conveyor Belt]

If we're talking sunsets, the trees in my neighbor's yards are blocking my view... can I get the city to take them out? Katrina helped some, but there's still a fair amount left.

[dollfus46]

If we're talking sunsets, the trees in my neighbor's yards are blocking my view... can I get the city to take them out? Katrina helped some, but there's still a fair amount left.

You just might be able to CB. I used to live on little Lake Saluda in a condo. Some people complained that a beautiful Magnolia tree, that must have been 50 years, old blocked their view of the lake. So the Association's Board of Directors had it cut down! Damn tree was there before the condo's were and certainly before the people who complained bought their units. I had a stroke!!! That was the beginning of the end of my living there. My girlfriend bought me a T-shirt that said, "Does not play well with board members."

[58ford]

I'll try a simple analogy to explain my feelings about billboards. If I take a business card from my bicycle shop and crumple it up and toss it out the window of my car on Central Avenue I will have committed a crime for which I could be arrested and jailed or fined.

Yet if I take that same business card and blow it up over a thousand times it's original size then stick it up on the top of a 40' high pole blocking the view of a fellow business owner's establishment and your view of the sunset, then I've committed no crime. I feel that both acts should be criminal. And many cities and several states agree with me.

All forms of advertising offer the intended audience a benefit in exchange for agreeing to be exposed to the paid message. Newspaper offers news, radio offers musical entertainment, TV offers drama, and magazines offer topical information. Even the rubber jar opener imprinted with an advertising message in your kitchen drawer gives you assistance in opening that jar of pickles.

As the intended target audience of advertising messages we each have the option of not viewing the above types of media should we choose. Except for billboards. Billboard advertising is the only advertising medium that takes away our choice to serve as audience member. And in most cases it is the only medium that steals our attention without giving us a benefit in exchange for our involuntary viewing.

Outdoor advertising may have merits to some degree for those traveling on interstates and needing immediate food, gas, and lodging information. Even then, I'd support scaled down less obnoxious visual distraction to the local landscape.

A billboard in the center of Petal benefits the billboard company, the land owner leasing the space to the company, and the advertiser. And it does so at the expense of the visual appeal of our community. Just my opinion. James Moore
So, If I draw a piece of "art" & throw it out my window on Central Ave I commit a crime, but if I blow it up a few hundred times & plaster it on the side of a building that should be okay? Not following the logic Mr. Moore.

[wilebill]

I've read some things that stated that billboards are a very effective means of advertising certain things and services (forgot what those things are now). Although I'm not crazy about billboards either, it's hard to argue with effective advertising if it helps economic development.

[Conveyor Belt]

I know that our billboards help us tremendously... I think they were supposed to go up today, but with the weather, it will probably be tuesday before they're up... I can't wait!

[James Moore]

So, If I draw a piece of "art" & throw it out my window on Central Ave I commit a crime, but if I blow it up a few hundred times & plaster it on the side of a building that should be okay? Not following the logic Mr. Moore.

It would be argued by most that art gives the viewer something in exchange for their attention. Though I'm learning that not all grasp the gift of art. James Moore

[James Moore]

I've read some things that stated that billboards are a very effective means of advertising certain things and services (forgot what those things are now). Although I'm not crazy about billboards either, it's hard to argue with effective advertising if it helps economic development.


If the argument of economic development is used to support billboards then billboards that direct the viewer to spend their money OUTSIDE their community (as do the majority of billboards in Petal) could be accused of having a negative impact on the local economy of a community.

If they are indeed effective then they are effectively directing money away form our immediate local economy. James Moore

[James Moore]

.... I doubt many business people who spend their hard earned capital on advertising would choose the advertising medium based on what brought the most enjoyment to the listener, watcher, etc. The bottom line is what brings in the most business....

I can't see the downside to billboard advertising. I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one.

One form of advertising that likely brings in more business than billboards is telemarketing. Catching a person at home one on one and giving them a fast spiel about your product.

Does the effectiveness of the medium justify it's existence regardless of the intrusive impact it may have on the audience??

No problem that we disagree. James Moore

[James Moore]

.

Since you're against this type of advertising, the kind that steals your attention without giving a beneift in exchange, then are you against people wraping their cars in ads, like the domino's cars? Can I look forward to a city ordinance against advertisments on cars?

Conveyor Belt,
Our current sign ordinance already addresses 'car signs'. They are permitted with certain restrictions. They must be operated during the course of the business they advertise (can't just paint a junker and park it out front). James Moore

[SoMissTV]

I truly enjoy reading threads like this. Intelligent, civil discourse on a variety of appropriate and interesting subjects. Thanks to all for the way these topics are handled. Thank you, Alderman Moore, for being a participant in these discussions. This is how good government should operate.

[Conveyor Belt]

Conveyor Belt,
Our current sign ordinance already addresses 'car signs'. They are permitted with certain restrictions. They must be operated during the course of the business they advertise (can't just paint a junker and park it out front). James Moore

if I wanted to paint the Pepsi logo on my car, would that be illegal?

[KeepItSimple]

Yet if I take that same business card and blow it up over a thousand times it's original size then stick it up on the top of a 40' high pole blocking the view of a fellow business owner's establishment and your view of the sunset, then I've committed no crime. I feel that both acts should be criminal. And many cities and several states agree with me.

One more point, then I'm leaving this. I promise. How does a billboard placed on a 40' high pole block the view of a fellow business owner's establishment unless the fellow business owner also has a sign on top of a 40' pole?

[KeepItSimple]

if I wanted to paint the Pepsi logo on my car, would that be illegal?

CB, not illegal, just not in good taste. I'd prefer you painted COKE or Dr. Pepper!

[KeepItSimple]

I truly enjoy reading threads like this. Intelligent, civil discourse on a variety of appropriate and interesting subjects. Thanks to all for the way these topics are handled. Thank you, Alderman Moore, for being a participant in these discussions. This is how good government should operate.


Me too. Just proves that there is always more points of view about every argument than your own. Debate, what a tremendous outlet.

[KeepItSimple]

One form of advertising that likely brings in more business than billboards is telemarketing. Catching a person at home one on one and giving them a fast spiel about your product.

Does the effectiveness of the medium justify it's existence regardless of the intrusive impact it may have on the audience??

No problem that we disagree. James Moore


So, on any given Sunday afternoon, you take your vehicle of choice, even if it's a Scion that is by nature unattractive, painted a really ugly shade of drab olive green and ride through Petal's main thoroughfare. The streets are full of travelers, all out to enjoy an afternoon of sightseeing. Each sent back home crying when they catch a glimpse of your visually unappealing vehicle. You spot a billboard which by it's nature offers an offensive view to you and your day is ruined. However, in the car right behind yours is a group of young unwed pregnant teenagers on their way to Mobile so that each can get an abortion when they see the same billboard which directs them to a family counseling center that ultimately results in changing at least 1 mind in that vehicle. Now, granted, I am pro choice in this matter, but a major life-changing decision has just been made based on the information in an "UGLY" billboard at which you just turned up your nose.

[James Moore]

One more point, then I'm leaving this. I promise. How does a billboard placed on a 40' high pole block the view of a fellow business owner's establishment unless the fellow business owner also has a sign on top of a 40' pole?


On a 40' pole it may not but come to Petal and drive in from Hancock Bank traveling towards El Mariachi Loco and the billboard on top of the 20' pole obscures the view of the Mexican restaurant until you've almost passed it up. James Moore

[James Moore]

if I wanted to paint the Pepsi logo on my car, would that be illegal?

Depends,
If you work for Pepsi then the sign fall under the jusridiction of our ordinance and while is not projhibited, it is regulated.

If you don't work for Pepsi and are not trying to promote the products of Pepsi then the logo ceases to be a commercial message and falls in the realm of free speech (kind of like public art). James Moore

[Conveyor Belt]

So, a person who is a preacher and has a bumpersticker promoting Jesus and their church has to be regulated?

[IGID]

Jesus, yall are killing me. Hey, I have a idea.....MOVE.

[kevin]

I agree with you Mr.Moore as far as Central and Main Street these signs would be a problem .I also agree that these signs are beneficial as well informative.I don't see any problem with them past Wendy's say on 42.I can't for the life of me see the need for an Ordianance for painted vehicles I'll do what I want as far as expressing myself in that manner.I will not however do anything offensive.I'm wondering if maybe some haven't heard Of the FIRST AMENDMENT!!!!!

[SoMissTV]

The first amendment doesn't necessarily apply to commercial speech.

[kevin]

How so SomissTv?

[SoMissTV]

Commercial speech, for the most part, is protected. However, there are a few restrictions. For more information, go here (http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/commercial.htm), here (http://www.lawpublish.com/amend1.html), or here (http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/Speech/advertising/overview.aspx).

[58ford]

Has anyone commented yet on the dead baby farm Central baptist has going on Hwy 49 south of town? I find it rather tasteless.

[kevin]

They are Hardcore anti-Abortionists at that church. I have several friends that grew up inside the church.I doubt you'll see those come down and if so look for something more eye-catching than that.I respect their belief as it is my own to some degree ,however the methods for which they try and make their point made is to say the least over the top.