Facts about HPD

[bartspoon]

I went to the council meeting tuesday night. The Citizens Advisory Board, gave a presentation on the condition of the HPD. Which they stated was in crisis. This is how they broke it down.

Authorized 128 officers
present # 94 officers

officer assignments:
schools 3
training 2
metro narcotics 1
detectives 8
bailiffs 2
internal affairs 1
command staff 6

total 23 officers

Call Responders
4 platoons (average 10 per) 43
neighborhood enhancement team 8
motor 4
D.U.I 1

total 56 officers

23
56
15 military reserve
this equals 94

So we have 56 officers who can actually respond to trouble. The are divided into shifts. So there are at the most 18 to 25 officers to protect us at any one time. On some occasions less then 4 patrol cars for the night.

According to the Dept. of Justice you need 2.7 officers for every 1000 citizens. eventhough our census of 2000 gives us 45,000. After katrina estimates by the ADP put the number at around 60,000. But, we live in what is called a Metropolitan Statistical Area that puts our population coming into our city at around 130,000. Everyone comes to shop and dine some to work. But what is called our service population (the number of citizen served on a given day by our police) is est. at 90,000. Do the math.
2.7 officers (according to the justice dept) for every 1000. That means we should have 243 officers not 128.

The Advisory Board said at the present we could get by with 167 and we need to change the authorization from 128 to 201 if we want our HPD to run effectively.
Think about it. At even given time we have 56 officers divided into shifts to cover a 50 square mile city with as many as 90,000 people coming in and out through the day.

They handed out a packet with the numbers, that is where i got this information. On the cover of the packet it said "PUBLIC SAFETY IS AN INHERENT GOVERNMENT FUNCTION," The man giving the presentation to the council repeated it twice. And said "your head is inherent to your body," he did not beat around the bush he spoke frankly and directly. He also said that we have had over 100 officers leave in the past 5 years. And stayed away from the details which i thought wise if you want everyone to listen. It was like joe friday on dragnet. JUST THE FACTS.

Oh yeah, the 8 detectives we have, have 846 cases that is 105 cases per detective. think they are overworked. The call responders (56 officers) have 9,500 calls per month. Thats 9 calls per officer per 12 hour shift.

Since they believe recruting new officers is essential, they recomended a 4000 dollar pay increase to get the pay competitive with the surrounding area dept. The pay at the present is 27,000. No one in there right mind would want to work in an over worked understaffed dept. for less money. Makes sence to me. We have the money. But our government does not see there inherent responsibility to protect us.

They also stressed that if something is not done soon we will start to see an effect in property values, people not coming here to locate new business and not come here to shop. It was a very effective meeting and the council seemed to respond well. The mayor seemed a little quite and like he had something waying on his mind.

At least now i Know why i feel unsafe.

[daisy]

Bartspoon, thanks for those facts. That is very interesting.

Do you remember the man and was he on the advisory board? Did Wynn say anything or was he there?

[daisy]

If businesses quit coming to the 'Burg, won't this affect sales tax which helps the city budget?


Can't businesses or future areas protest being annexed by Hattiesburg if they can show that Hattiesburg is not able to offer them adequate city services?

I know this kept Gulfport taking in any more of Lyman--overloaded water and sewage>

[IGID]

They can't get enough people to fill the 128. $4000.00 will not change the reason Officers are leaving and there is no way they could fill 201 positions. When will they learn? It's not about money.

[Maggie-Doodle]

Glad to know that the group pretty much said the same thing that the employees and former employees have been saying for the last 5+ years...it is one mell of a hess! :) The citizens are the ones that are suffering from this admins hard-headed stupidity!

[cowgirl]

when have you ever heard of a city of our PAST status not being able to staff our police force. mayor dupree and his administration have run our dear city in to the ground. i am so ashame. they are pitiful. the real sad thing is he thinks he is hattiesburg's finest. his poor service impacts the entire hattiesburg area. how can we save the image of the city schools with such a poor image of the mayor and city. city services are at an ALL-TIME low.

[carsalesguy]

Did Wynn say anything or was he there?

I was wondering the same thing...if wynn had the balls to show up.......

[58ford]

We know the problem. We know the solution.
I'm afraid it's gonna take another election to start fixing things.

[cowgirl]

money is not a primary motivator of superb nor quality work. call and tell your council members this important information. mayor dupree is a drowning man now and will do almost anything to get on top of the water, but hire competent staff to lead and direct this city. no other law enforcement agency has a deficient in staff but hattiesburg. police officers supplement their pay in many ways such as extra duty that pay double and triple time. this is not to say the an appropriate pay raise is not needed. our mayor is beyond his capacity to lead.

[wilebill]

It's good to see that the report presented last night echoed what me and a lot of others here have been saying, especially the part that we need more officers than just the 128 budgeted for. This point really highlights the piss poor job Wynn has been doing in that he can't manage even the slightest bit of crisis that pops up, and if we can't rely on the PD to be there for the citizens during a crisis then what hope is there?

What if a real crisis occurs - a hostage situation at one of the schools, a shooting rampage at the mall, a real terrorist situation, or numerous other scenarios? How can HPD respond fully and still maintain a presence in the rest of the city? It can't. We're living on thin ice here in the 'burg and only when something like this occurs will Dupree realize Wynn's in over his head - just like when a shooting occurred close to his mother did he become concerned about that.

I'm hoping this quote from Dupree is prophetic: "I'm sure that the council wants what everyone wants and that's a safe city," he said. "And I'm sure that they will do the correct and proper thing to do." The correct thing to do to get the city and HPD back on track is to kick Wynn out on his fat ass.

[jmb]

Dupree's the mayor, Wynn is the chief of police. Why does it take a citizens advisory group to tell them what they should know?

[bartspoon]

IGID, I dont think you can believe that a raise wont help. It will be at the very least a positive point in an interview with a new recruit. The lack of competitive pay is a factor whether we like it or not. To get our HPD up to 201 officers we have to illiminate any obstacles in the way. I would hate to have the job of telling a prospective recruit that not only are we understaffed but also underpaid. We dont need anything getting in the way of hiring well qualified people. And being able to say you want find any higher pay in the area will help.

I detest wynn as much or more than anyone. But we cannot punish the officers for the sins of the chief. And there is not one thing we can do as citizens to get rid of him. And it is a mute point, he wont be there much longer anyway. The mayor, even if he appeals his case, it will be upheld by a higher court because it is an open and shut case. (personally i dont think he will appeal.) In ten days he has to make up his mind, then it will take about a month for the appeal to be rejected. then he will have to submit the dept. heads or go to jail. AND WYNN WILL NEVER BE APPROVED BY THE COUNCIL. If Carter Carrol, Ken Bradley and Dave Ware let him get approved they will all be run out of town on a rail, and i will be there with the tar and feathers myself.

But in the meantime we need to get the ball rolling on increasing the pay. No matter who becomes our chief, it will make it easier on him to get new officers. Anyone who thinks money does not make a difference is just not being honest. I believe we need to give new officers a signing bonus to help them make up there minds. To repair the damage that has been done we need to pull out all the stops and do what ever it takes to make our police dept. more appealing to anyone wanting to get in that line of business. We dont need to just sit back and let wynn get in the way of doing what needs to be done. And a pay increase will show the officers who have stuck with us that we appreciate them and the hard times they have had.

Last the people on the Advisory Board are just regular citizens like me and you. They have gotten out of the stands and gone onto the field to get things done. Everyone needs to get behind them and push. Mr. Harrel is the man who gave the presentation and he said they plain to go into the community and talk to the jaycees the rotary the churches and anyone else who will listen. Their main reason to speak to the council was to let them know that what they presented will be presented to the people who they represent. They want to rally the citizens on one thing, improving the fast growing danger our city is facing. And pay is only one cog in that wheel. The need for more then 128 officers is another and leadership or lack of leadership is another. In my opinion wynn is not going to be our chief much longer and we need to begin pluging the other holes in the dike. The wheels of justice grind slow, but they will eventually run over wynn. When a new man takes over i would like the pay increase already in motion. And any other thing that the new chief may need. And i just hope the council does its homwork better on approving a new chief then they did when they approved wynn. We have to think past wynn, we cant just continue to wait for him to go to begin. We are in a crisis.

[IGID]

Bart, I'm not saying they don't need a raise at all, we all do. I am a Police Officer and it's another whole thread about the lack of pay for the police and teachers. But if they think $4000.00 will magically make officers flock to HPD and make the officers they have stay that have already decided to leave as soon as they find another job, they are sadly mistaken. Men and women don't become police officers for the money.

[daisy]

I agree with both of ya'll on your concern about the pay being the magic. A pay increase is warranted for officers anywhere, anytime,(sounds like the Eagles)

I agree with IGID that throwing $$$$ at the problem is a nice way of not seeing the elephant in the room sitting on HPD and squiishing them to death. By that< I mean any officer considering a move somewhere will ask around and see what he is getting into.

I know I try to get info before I make a decision before I make a job change. Or I have learned to. I imagine HPD has going down the toilet written all over it in the grapevine.

I agree with Bartspoon that extra pay might help us climb out of the hole HPD has been put into. Someone needs to get rid of the sabotaging efforts of people. This may be intentional sabotage or just through ignorance, negligence or just don't care. I know that has been addressed by the city council already. I keep praying for the continued wisdom and vigilance for the city council and the mayor and Wynn of course.

[bartspoon]

IGID, no one is saying that a pay increase is a magic bullet. There is no magic bullet. Where did you read that a pay increase will magically make officers flock to HPD? Nothing will do that. IT is just one element to getting our HPD up to standards.

No one is saying that police do there job just for the money either. Those folks on the board are just trying to get the ball rolling. The police are not asking for the raise, the board saw what they were making and said they need a raise. If you are satisfied with your pay, I think that is great. But as a citizen I'm not. And no one is talking about throwing money at a problem, they are talking about paying our officers what officers in the area make. That sounds like common sence to me. Do you want our officers to be underpaid.

If your not saying your not for a pay raise then what exactly are you saying. Are you saying wait till later, study it more, wait for another chief? Im tired of waiting. We can take the argument that some have about low pay off the table with a pay raise and then start getting to the real problem of leadership. That is a win/win situation. Officers working at a dangerous job get more pay(which they deserve) and people who say if the police got a rasie we wouldnt have this problem will have to shut up and look somewhere else for a answer.

What is your solution to the problem, as citizens we cant fire the chief, we have to just hope the law prevails and the mayor submits his dept. heads. Until then how do we help keep our police (a pay increase will surely not run more officers off). To me a pay increase can only be a positive step. If its not a positive step, please tell me why. If you want to just sit back and do nothing Im going to have to disagree with that decision. I think you believe in some way a pay increase will be rewarding wynn. But he will not be getting an increase nor will he be given credit for the increase, and to not do it because of wynn is to punish the officers for wynns poor leadership.

I always appreciate your post and enjoy reading them, they are informative and helpful. But no one has said anyone will magically flock anywhere for anything.

[dalo knight]

Think about this why would fifteen police officers rather take a chance of going to Iraq or Afghanistan than come back to work for the HPD? It cannot be just pay.

[Bahlk]

It's the building.

[Smoke Diver]

I vote to give the HPD the raise that the citizens group recommended. Nothing is more important than security.

[hbm]

Bartspoon, During my campaign you and I had a lot of disagreements but what you are saying is just what I was trying to get across then. I support every word of your post. No matter who is police chief they will need to have the pay and other benifits in place to recruit officers. If as the admin has stated for a long time that the pay and jail space is the problem then lets fix those problems. If after those problems are fixed and we still have officers leaving then the admin will have to come up with new excuses. Then maybe more eyes will be opened.

[IGID]

Bart, I never said they don't need a raise. We all do. If it were up to me we'd make at least 100 k per year. Most of us are living pay check to pay check as it is. All I'm saying is, money is not why they can't fill that 128, much less 201. Until the mayor quits protecting his friends, all the money in the world won't help.

[ACEsmom]

I tried to give you rep points Smoke Diver - but I have to "spread it around" ...

I also know several city employees that would love to take on the role of police officer but the "platoon" schedule doesn't allow for it, nor can they hold dual careers for the city.

[wilebill]

I agree with you bartspoon, but at the same time we can't give Wynn and Dupree forever to see what everone sees. The city is hanging on by the skin of our teeth and we're just one incident away from a calamity. Do the things that need to be done no matter who the chief is, but when the opportunity arises, Wynn needs to be thrown out on his ear.

Even if (when) the officers get a raise, and if Wynn were to stay around long enough to prove that it's not the money driving the officers away, then another excuse will be given for the exodus. It's a never-ending pass the buck marathon.

[bartspoon]

wilebil i may be wrong, but i think wynn is a dead man walking. He will not be our chief much longer. You can see it on his face. The mayor's time is up and both the chief and the mayor know it. The mayor has less then ten days to apeal, if he does not he has to submit his dept. heads. when he does wynn is gone. I only hope commadore goes with him and our mayor has to start doing the job he is paid to do.

[hbm]

I think you are right. I don't think the mayor can hold out for very long. Even people that have supported him in the past are wanting this to end. I am suprised that with all the connections the chief has made with the black police chief organization and others he has not found another job and left on his own before he is fired.

[daisy]

What I know for sure is before Dupree and Wynn came in HPD had more officers waiting to go to academy than they had schools. We had enough officers, less crime and a good reputation as having a good police department.

We didn't have all this pay that everyone thinks will solve the problems with recruiting HPD police officers and keeping them. I am all for paying law enforcement officers and support personnel.

The absense of all this extra pay has not sent HPD officers elsewhere.

[bartspoon]

daisy, again no one thinks a pay increase will stop all the problems recruiting, and i think its counter productive to keep thinking anyone is saying it will. But having the pay competitive with surrounding departments can help, along with better leadership. Anything that seperates us in a postitive way from other departments helps in our recruiting. And a pay increase is just one of the positive ways, and a new chief and better working enviornment is another.

One thing we can do in this discusion is stay on the same page. And increasing officers pay and getting rid of wynn are two different issues. I just believe the best way my tax dollar can be spent right now is to spend it on the people who are trying so hard to do an almost impossible job. I just want to help them in any way i can.

[hbm]

I don't think anyone here is saying this all started from a pay standpoint. But the officers pay has not increased to keep pace with the surrounding agencies. It needs to be at least the same. At the same time it satisfies one of the reasons given by the admin. Or takes away one of the excuses. after a while they either run out of excuses or people get tired of hearing more. This is something that will have to be done who ever is running the department. The people that did the study did not come in with anything but facts. I respect that. They were not looking to blame, they were looking to get action.

[cowgirl]

readers, it's our police system, not solely the amount of pay. mayor dupree, do you know how to fix the system?

[bigsexy]

The problem is the administration doesnt know how to fix the problem. You need more investigators to track down the leads to solve the crimes to put the badguys in jail. Right now, if you had 120 more street cops the only thing that would change is more would be initially arrested but they would soon be right back out on the streets because you have no trained investigators to present good cases to the District attorney. The net team mentality of just arresting folks and put them in jail without making a sounding arrest does nothing more than take them off the streets for a couple of hours. I find it shocking that you never seen any news from the detectives division considering their responsible for all felony cases in hattiesburg. Therein lies the problem. no matter how many people you arrest if you dont have someone working further on the case it doesn't help. 8 detectives working all the felony crimes. Come on. you probably only have two or three working their tales off just to stay afloat and their steadily sinking.

[Marjan Suggs]

Thanks for the stats... it seems you are very well informed, living outside the city limits, the numbers do not mean that much to me, BUT having a job at night in the city, it means that the respond time is out of sight when the HPD is called.I do applaud all the officers that try so hard for so little to help keep Hattiesburg safe. I do not have a solution to the problem that Hattiesburg is facing, I am sure that the members will act very fast once they are personally affected by the increase of crime.