The Message of Salvation

[zorro]

The Message of Salvation by Philip G. Ryken is an excellent book on a subject which should be of primary interest to every living rational person. In the preface the author notes: "The Bible itself is the word of salvation, the gracious message that glorifies God by persuading sinners to believe in Jesus Christ. A book such as this by necessity has to be selective." And though it is selective, it is quite comprehensive in its selectivity and brevity. The message in The Message of Salvation is faithful to the Biblical message, and paints the various colors of salvation beautifully and understandably. It is very informative and a delight to read.

The book itself is just under 300 pages and consists of 19 chapters, with the opening chapters dealing with humanity's need of salvation, what is salvation, and our inability to accomplish this salvation ourselves. The futility of all false religions and why they have no true salvation to offer mankind is explained in an easily understood manner. The heart of the book then explains the method of how the one true triune God saves sinners. Many important theological terms or concepts are covered in this part of the book, and though you may think that this would be boring stuff to hear, it is quite fascinating. It is also written in such a way that even what might have been thought to be a difficult area to understand is actually not that difficult at all when it is taught well. The author is someone who obviously not only knows the scriptures well, but also knows how to teach them. The various subjects that are dealt with in this central portion of the book include the doctrine of the Trinity, election, deliverance, redemption, expiation, propitiation, reconciliation (atonement), resurrection, regeneration, faith, repentance, union with Christ, justification, and adoption. The final 5 chapters deal with these subjects regarding God's people: their communion, sanctification, perseverance, glorification, and mission.

This book is written for both Christians and non-Christians. It does an excellent job of accurately explaining the Biblical message of salvation. What a great Christmas gift to give to others or even yourself! After all, what is Christmas supposed to be about in the first place?

Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners -- I Timothy 1:15

[Conveyor Belt]

The Message of Salvation by Philip G. Ryken is an excellent book on a subject which should be of primary interest to every living rational person.

So, because I don't find The Message of Salvation a worthy subject of my interest, I'm irrational?

[fuzzis]

So, because I don't find The Message of Salvation a worthy subject of my interest, I'm irrational?

Essentially.

:smt102

Hey...you read/heard anything about Carlton Pearson in OKC? I listened to an NPR piece about him on the way home a week and a half ago. Interesting.

fuzzis

[aaron]

So, because I don't find The Message of Salvation a worthy subject of my interest, I'm irrational?

lol, I take Zorro as a Pat Robertson fan.

[Conveyor Belt]

Essentially.

:smt102

Hey...you read/heard anything about Carlton Pearson in OKC? I listened to an NPR piece about him on the way home a week and a half ago. Interesting.

fuzzis

yeah, I heard that piece a year or so ago. It was an excellent story about him.
I can see his POV, and also see why he takes so much flack about it. I actually wrote him a letter after hearing the NPR piece.

My brother in law is a universalist Christian, and he's probably one of the smartest people I know...

[58ford]

So, because I don't find The Message of Salvation a worthy subject of my interest, I'm irrational?
It could mean that you're rational & dead, or living and rational, but not a person.

[zorro]

So, because I don't find The Message of Salvation a worthy subject of my interest, I'm irrational?
In the parable of the prodigal son found in Luke 15:11-32, Jesus uses these words to describe the prodigal son when he realized his foolishness:

"But when he came to his senses, . ."

In II Timothy 2:24-26, we read:

And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

Thus, we see that the Scriptures portray someone in impenitent rebellion against God as being senseless, or insane, since they are not thinking clearly. OTOH, repentance involves "coming to your senses".

Jesus put the priority of the subject of one's salvation this way in another passage (Mark 8:35-37):

What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

I think that it is clear from the Scriptures themselves that it is irrational for someone to undervalue the worth of their own soul, as well as God's gracious provision of salvation.

[zorro]

I take Zorro as a Pat Robertson fan.
Wrong! What exactly led you to this conclusion?

Actually, aaron, I'm a little disappointed in your ad hominem abusive fallacious statement. If my posts are read carefully, my beliefs are not nebulous whatsoever. You will also note that I have never mentioned Pat Robertson or endorsed him in any way.

Should I surmise that your thread on Richard Dawkins indicates that you are a fan of his?

[B.T. Justice]

lol, I take Zorro as a Pat Robertson fan.
I will not use the term fan, short for fanatic, but I happen to have great respect for Pat Robertson. He sometimes has a shoot first, ask questions later mentality, but if he were a secular liberal, this would be considered an admirable characteristic.

Thanks for the book review Z!

[aaron]

Wrong! What exactly led you to this conclusion?


Your writing style reminds me of Pat Robertson. It doesn't have to be a negative comment, there are thousands that love him, much like there are thousands that love the "in your face" style of Richard Dawkins. And yes, I don't mind being called a fan of Richard Dawkins. Although I don't admire his beliefs, I do admire his style since he's very popular and doing a much better job at getting his message across than most out-spoken Christians are.

[zorro]

Your writing style reminds me of Pat Robertson.
In all honesty, I don’t think that I’ve ever read anything by Pat Robertson. What exactly have you read by him that makes you think the above?

Personally, I like not only the style, but the content as well, of the book The Message of Salvation by Philip G. Ryken. Why don’t you get it and check it out? You might just end up being glad that you did.

:smt045

[zorro]

This subject is always best discussed over cold beers in the neighborhood bar. Then, go out back and beat the hell out of each other. :)
OK, but I think that we all need to read the above book first so that we will at least know exactly what it is that we are discussing in the first place. :smt023

[Conveyor Belt]

OK, but I think that we all need to read the above book first so that we will at least know exactly what it is that we are discussing in the first place. :smt023

buy it for me and I'll read it... I'll even return it when I'm done.

[zorro]

buy it for me and I'll read it...
It's a deal!

[SoMissTV]

Jesus uses these words:

"But when he came to his senses, . ."


Yeah, Jesus didn't speak English. Those are not the words he used.

[B.T. Justice]

Yeah, Jesus didn't speak English. Those are not the words he used.
I can post it in Aramaic if you think that would help!

[Hermione]

I can post it in Aramaic if you think that would help!

Probably not. The translation is from a Greek text in any case, isn't it? The ESV (English Standard Version) renders that passage as "when he came to himself" --

Zorro, you are obviously an erudite person, but I think this verse may be thin ice on which to base your present argument.

[zorro]

The ESV (English Standard Version) renders that passage as "when he came to himself" --

Zorro, . . . I think this verse may be thin ice on which to base your present argument.
The reason that this phrase in verse 17 is translated either "when he came to himself" or "when he came to his senses" by the best English translations is because the 2 translations are equivalent in meaning.

Looking at just a few commentators on this verse, I found the following --

John Calvin says this regarding "when he came to himself" in verse 17:

as we are slow, we scarcely ever regain a sound mind, unless when we are forced by extreme distress

John Wesley comments:

And coming to himself - For till then he was beside himself, as all men are, so long as they are without God in the world.

Matthew Henry says this about this phrase:

A sinful state is a state of madness and frenzy. This is intimated in that expression (v. 17), when he came to himself, which intimates that he had been beside himself. . . . Sinners, like those that are mad, destroy themselves with foolish lusts, and yet at the same time deceive themselves with foolish hopes; and they are, of all diseased persons, most enemies to their own cure. Note, We must not despair of the worst; for while there is life there is hope. The grace of God can soften the hardest heart, and give a happy turn to the strongest stream of corruption.

John Gill says of verse 17:

And when he came to himself,.... An unregenerate man, whether while a voluptuous man, or a self-righteous man, is not himself; he is beside himself; and is no other than a madman. The man that pursues his worldly lusts and pleasures, promises himself liberty, while he is a slave; he ruins himself, his soul, body, and estate, and chooses to do it rather than part with his lusts; he takes delight in doing mischief himself, and in seeing it done by others; he proclaims his folly publicly, declares his sin, and glories in it; all which a man in his right mind would never do. The self-righteous person trusts in his own heart, which is the greatest madness and folly in the world; he compasses himself about with sparks of his own kindling, and sacrifices to his own net; he dresses himself in his rags, and pleases and prides himself with them, when a robe of righteousness, and garments of salvation, are provided; which no man in his senses would ever do. But when the Spirit of God comes to work upon a sinner's heart in conversion, he brings him to himself; which a man may be said to be, when he is brought to true evangelical repentance for sin;

[B.T. Justice]

Z-
I find it interesting that you quote Calvin and Wesley on the same side of an issue. I was raised in the Methodist Church, "Wesley good; Calvin bad." However, I have become more ecumenical in my Theology, and am starting to appreciate Calvin more. I found a quote not long ago where Wesley said, "There is but a hair's beadth difference between Calvin and myself." Granted, Wesley mellowed some in later years, particularly after the death of George Whitefield.
I have been told that to fully understand the banking system in Switzerland you must understand the influence Augustine had on Calvin. I plan to read City of God over Christmas holidays; Want to see for myself.

[Hermione]

Thanks for bringing in some additional sources, Zorro. Very interesting.

BT, I thought you were making a joke. My bad!!

[B.T. Justice]

Thanks for bringing in some additional sources, Zorro. Very interesting.

BT, I thought you were making a joke. My bad!!

Actually, at this point it should be discribed as a poor attempt at humor. I am aware that there is not a written witness to the words spoken in Aramaic. However, it is possible to reconstruct a phrase in Hebrew or Aramaic that would convey that same message.
Probably best to let it go at this point.:)

[Leonidas]

Yeah, Jesus didn't speak English. Those are not the words he used.

Jesus spoke Aramaic, and the verse Luke 15:17 was translated into Greek by the author, Luke. I would encourage you get the book Zorro recommended. Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. It follows that he was either a liar, a madman, or the Son of God in fact. Jesus' universally acknowledged goodness and wisdom rule out the first two possibilities: we must therefore accept the third. This argument, reduced to the neatly alliterative 'Lunatic, Liar or Lord' (or 'Mad, bad or God') and nick-named 'the trilemma' is a mainstay of much popular Christian evangelism and apologetics. It sometimes seems to be more famous either than the book, Mere Christianity, in which it appears or the man, C.S Lewis, who wrote it.
I believe that strikes at the core of every person's belief system.

[zorro]

I plan to read City of God over Christmas holidays
If I'm not mistaken, that's quite a hefty book in its unabridged form. I have a copy of it somewhere, and I have planned to read it at various times, but it always seemed that something else came up that kept me from reading this classic work.

So many books, so little time.... :smt111

[Hermione]

BT, I took an entire semester in grad school devoted to the "early" Augustine (you had to have six hours of a minor, or related field.) I did fine through Confessions and a few early things, but was in very deep water after that. City of God wasn't even on the the menu, think it got its own semester. Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

Z, I have a book called The King's Two Bodies that I've been trying to read for about fifteen years. Something else always comes up to interfere with that one too. (Like my despair at the Latin footnotes.) On the other hand, I have actually read both War and Peace and Moby-Dick. Just don't ask me to do it again!

[zorro]

screw the message, I need a massage.
All of us WANT a massage; all of us NEED the message. :smt045

[Conveyor Belt]

Thanks for the book, Zorro... wish you'd deliver yourself instead of sending one of your minions to do your dirty work!!!

I've got about 10 pages of Aztec left, then I'm going to read 'The Message of Salvation'.

[selmore]

ZZzzzzzzzzzzzz (snort) ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz (drool)

OK, I'm awake....u all done arguing??

[Conveyor Belt]

I'm about 20 pages into the book, and it's going to be a chore to read. They guy bases everything on the assumption that the Bible is infallible. It's truly a Christian's book, not for someone who's not Christian.

[zorro]

ZZzzzzzzzzzzzz (snort) ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz (drool)

Awake, thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. -- Ephesians 5:14

For a great sermon on this verse by Charles Wesley, go here: http://gbgm-umc.org/UMHISTORY/Wesley/sermons/serm-003.stm

His description of "sleepers" is followed by a forceful exhortation to "awake and arise", and the sermon then concludes with an explanation of the promise made to such as do awake and arise, which is "Christ shall give thee light".

OK, I'm awake.... Perhaps, but I would suggest reading the sermon anyway in order to help make certain that you are correct.

[zorro]

On another thread, CB has offered his copy of this book to anybody who wants it. If you have an interest in this subject, I highly recommend either buying the book yourself or contacting CB in order to get the free copy that he is giving away. :)

[Conveyor Belt]

Yeah, take this overbearing piece of potential kindling off my hands, please!!!

[zorro]

Hey CB, if you still have this book and are not going to read it, may I suggest bringing it to Checkers so that somebody (who has an interest in this subject) may be able to pick it up. They could just state that they were there in order to get a milk shake and a Christian book from fez. :)

Of course, they would need to pay for the milk shake. :-D

[Conveyor Belt]

Shake machine is broken right now, Z.... If I remember, I'll take it up there... give me a few days and I'll let you know when it's there, and you can send them on the way.

[zorro]

Hey CB,

Did you ever bring this book to Checker's? If so, is it still available?