Reasons for Gun Control

[zorro]

1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, Detroit & Chicago cops need guns.

2. Washington DC's low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis' high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.

3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics."

4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994 are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991.

5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.

6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.

7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.

8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense - give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p. 125).

10. The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns; just like Guns & Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery.

11. One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seat belts, a civil engineer for a better bridge, a surgeon for internal medicine, a computer programmer for hard drive problems, and Sarah Brady for firearms expertise.

12. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1787, refers to the National Guard, which was created 130 years later, in 1917.

13. The National Guard, federally funded, with bases on federal land, using federally-owned weapons, vehicles, buildings and uniforms, punishing trespassers under federal law, is a "state" militia.

14. These phrases: "right of the people peaceably to assemble," "right of the people to be secure in their homes," "enumerations herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people," and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people" all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" refers to the state.

15. "The Constitution is strong and will never change." But we should ban and seize all guns thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments to that Constitution.

16. Rifles and handguns aren't necessary to national defense! Of course, the army has hundreds of thousands of them.

17. Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they aren't "military weapons'', but private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles'', because they are military weapons.

18. In spite of waiting periods, background checks, fingerprinting, government forms, etc., guns today are too readily available, which is responsible for recent school shootings. In the 1940's, 1950's and 1960's, anyone could buy guns at hardware stores, army surplus stores, gas stations, variety stores, Sears mail order, no waiting, no background check, no fingerprints, no government forms and there were no school shootings.

19. The NRA's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, but the anti-gun lobby's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign is responsible social activity.

20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.

21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20.

22. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears."

23. Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed.

24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.

25. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves.

26. Any self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a "weapon of mass destruction" or an "assault weapon."

27. Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.

28. The right of Internet pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights.

29. Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self- defense only justifies bare hands.

30. The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution.

31. Charlton Heston, a movie actor as president of the NRA is a cheap lunatic who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas, a movie actor as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit.

32. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do "civilians" who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition.

33. We should ban "Saturday Night Specials" and other inexpensive guns because it's not fair that poor people have access to guns too.

34. Police officers have some special Jedi-like mastery over handguns that private citizens can never hope to obtain.

35. Private citizens don't need a gun for self- protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.

36. Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun.

37. "Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people. The police need assault weapons. You do not.

38. When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that's bad; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson, that's good.

39. Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon.

40. Handgun Control, Inc., says they want to "keep guns out of the wrong hands." Guess what? You have the wrong hands.

:smt070 :icon_snip :ms: :shoot: :icon_gun:

[Fish-Bait]

And may I ask where did you find this Zorro?

[aaron]

The founding fathers were at war with their government when they wrote the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the Declaration of Independence. The National Guard is not what they meant. The right to bear arms is meant to give every property owner a right to protect his home and family.

Ohh yeah, a DC court (http://thenewliberty.com/?p=63) and the House of Representatives (http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/guncontrol/a/dcguns.htm) just struck down their gun control law on these same grounds.


To summarize, we conclude that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms. That right existed prior to the formation of the new government under the Constitution and was premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad).

[zorro]

And may I ask where did you find this Zorro?
It's fairly old, but it can be found here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/519561/posts

[Breland]

But if we take away all the guns then lawyers could not sue the manufacturers, which would decrease their livlihood, which is cruel and unusual punishment, which is unconstitutional!

[Astra]

Free Republic? Why am I not surprised? Those jerks used to find people's blogs they disagreed with, then overrun them until they were all either banned or the comments were shut down. Real class acts. There's a lot of unsupported hyperbole in this thing and I think I blew my sarcasm allowance for the day on it.

1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, Detroit & Chicago cops need guns.
Yes, because banning guns instantly gets them all off the streets, right...

2. Washington DC's low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis' high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.
It's all about the "1 in 100,000" numbers. Factors like socioecomic makeup of each city or have absolutely nothing to do with such statistics whatsoever.

3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics."
Gun controls don't do jack about stolen weapons, illegally imported weapons, or guns that are already on the streets.

4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994 are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991.
Cite? "Violent crime" doesn't necessarily mean "gun-related crime."

5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.
You mean like at Columbine? Oh wait, Freepers save that argument for school prayer...

6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.
Because guns protect you from people stealing your stuff when you're not at home, identity theft, and your next-door neighbors that constantly violate the noise ordinance.

7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.
Who the heck tells people to confront an intruder with oven spray? Tear gas isn't usually lying around the house and will incapacitate everyone in it. If you're a moron who bought a gun for safety without bothering to learn how to use it, the attacker is probably going to be incapacitated by laughter after watching you try to shoot him, missing, and getting knocked into a wall by the kick.

8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.
This is just offensive. Come on, has anyone REALLY heard someone use this kind of argument? Try harder.

9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense - give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p. 125).
It sounds bad, but he kind of has a point. Anyone who fights back is more likely to get hurt, and even if you fight back and lose, they're still going to take whatever it was they wanted. Might be more satifying to shoot the guy in the face, but if you miss, all you've done is upset him and made your own situation worse. Unless you're trained well (or a ninja in disguise), being passive is probably your best bet at getting out of the situation unhurt.

10. The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns; just like Guns & Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery.
Yes, because a professional peer-reviewed journal and a magazine always compare equally. Did the NEJM have something in it these guys objected to?

11. One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seat belts, a civil engineer for a better bridge, a surgeon for internal medicine, a computer programmer for hard drive problems, and Sarah Brady for firearms expertise.
Yeah, victims turning into advocates are relevant in everything BUT gun crime.

12. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1787, refers to the National Guard, which was created 130 years later, in 1917.

13. The National Guard, federally funded, with bases on federal land, using federally-owned weapons, vehicles, buildings and uniforms, punishing trespassers under federal law, is a "state" militia.
What Aaron said. I'm sure every advocate of gun control wants to see National Guard soldiers in Iraq stripped of their evil, evil weapons, too.

14. These phrases: "right of the people peaceably to assemble," "right of the people to be secure in their homes," "enumerations herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people," and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people" all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" refers to the state.
Fine, if we all get to bear arms, then I want my own nuclear bomb. The Constitution says I can have it.

15. "The Constitution is strong and will never change." But we should ban and seize all guns thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments to that Constitution.
Who is being quoted? Changes seem okay, especially considering we're talking about amendments.

16. Rifles and handguns aren't necessary to national defense! Of course, the army has hundreds of thousands of them.
And where is our Army right now? Maybe you should go join them. I hear they also have tanks.

17. Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they aren't "military weapons'', but private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles'', because they are military weapons.
Again, who are we quoting? Or are we just making up definitions in place of a straw man argument?

18. In spite of waiting periods, background checks, fingerprinting, government forms, etc., guns today are too readily available, which is responsible for recent school shootings. In the 1940's, 1950's and 1960's, anyone could buy guns at hardware stores, army surplus stores, gas stations, variety stores, Sears mail order, no waiting, no background check, no fingerprints, no government forms and there were no school shootings.
Ohh, here's the Columbine arugment! Back then we also didn't require seatbelts in cars and kids usually didn't attend schools that had over 3000 students. There also wasn't a 24/7 media machine to give us up-to-the-minute updates on shootings in progress, either.

19. The NRA's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, but the anti-gun lobby's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign is responsible social activity.
I didn't listen to the NRA or to the anti-gun lobby. I listened to my parents. What a concept, I know.

20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.
You don't need to know proper upkeep and target practice in order to shoot someone in the back of the head at close range.

21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20.
And we require license, registration, and insurance to operate a vehicle. Vehicles also weren't designed specifically to blow holes in things/animals/people.

22. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears."
Guess they're trying to make up for the rape comment earlier. Now those mean anti-gun people are the ones who think we're helpless morons.

23. Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed.
Yes, because regular people are normally so eager to kill other people, even in self-defense. I'm sure nobody who has ever shot a home intruder needed help dealing with it afterward.

24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.
Trying to kill people in a place surrounded by weapons probably wouldn't buy you much. Would that qualify as "suicide by gun show?"

25. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves.
Yeah, and the very same people are responsible for that decision, too! The majority is EVIL!

26. Any self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a "weapon of mass destruction" or an "assault weapon."
Oh great. So the weapons of mass destruction have been HERE all along?

27. Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.[quote]
This logic works with drug laws, right?

[quote]28. The right of Internet pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights.
Not specifically, no. That's why we have all those cases about what constitutes self-defense, so some bozo can't just shoot you because you're annoying and say "Hey, he was gonna hit me! Self-defense!"

29. Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self- defense only justifies bare hands.
Free speech usually doesn't infringe on someone else's natural right to keep breathing.

30. The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution.
The NRA isn't bad, it's just become overrun by extremists who alienate those who aren't in total agreement with them.

31. Charlton Heston, a movie actor as president of the NRA is a cheap lunatic who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas, a movie actor as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit.[/quote[]
They're both egotistical morons. "UN arms control" also does not equal "handguns."

[quote]32. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do "civilians" who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition.
Police also have that dreaded "training" civilians may not have and get to deal with things like shooting targets from a distance and armed standoffs.

33. We should ban "Saturday Night Specials" and other inexpensive guns because it's not fair that poor people have access to guns too.
Who has ever proposed banning guns based on price? Maybe some were included because they're often unreliable pieces of crap?

34. Police officers have some special Jedi-like mastery over handguns that private citizens can never hope to obtain.
No, but they have been taught when and how to use the things. They have to submit to background checks and go through an academy, too. And you people are complaining about registries and licenses, tsk tsk.

35. Private citizens don't need a gun for self- protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.
I know it's full of those darn activist judges and all, but where exactly did this ruling get made?

36. Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun.
It's not important that management stays up to the same standards as patrol officers, is it?

37. "Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people. The police need assault weapons. You do not.
Since when is "Well the cops and the military have it, so should I" a good excuse for owning fully-automatic weapons? If you need that kind of firepower to take down a deer, the weapon isn't the problem.

38. When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that's bad; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson, that's good.
I wouldn't say "bad" or "good," but it isn't quite comparable. Microsoft was a private company trying to force other private companies to adopt its software. What was the reason for the federal government pushing Smith & Wesson (if it even happened that way)

39. Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon.
Because a lot of little kids are likely to find it and start playing with it... while it's in the officer's holster.

40. Handgun Control, Inc., says they want to "keep guns out of the wrong hands." Guess what? You have the wrong hands.
If you buy into some of this crappy reasoning, maybe this part is right.


For the record, I'm in the middle on gun control. I think the attempts made have been pretty toothless due to the amount of compromise to get them passed, and fairly useless when it comes to preventing crime because of all the existing unregistered, stolen, and illegally imported firearms out there. I just don't understand why people think they should be allowed to own machines made for the military to kill other people - it's not like having an assault rifle in the house is going to make you any safer than having a handgun.

My biggest problem is that so many people seem to be convinced that the government wants to strip them of all their weapons and leave them vulnerable to crime.

First of all, I've never seen a total and complete gun ban seriously considered in this country. That would be insane, and yet it's what the nutjobs want everyone to believe is happening. I have no problem with the registry idea, and after seeing the huge pile of ballistics evidence awaiting testing at a crime lab a couple of years ago, think it would be a huge benefit to law enforcement down the road.

Secondly, owning a gun doesn't instantly make you safer. People buy the things for self-defense, then they turn around and never bother to learn how to properly use them, how to store them, or how to teach kids to respect what they can do. Buying a gun doesn't instantly turn you into Dirty Harry. Maybe it gives you a sense of confidence, but you can own a gun and still be a victim of crime. The presence of a gun doesn't make you immune to it. You can know how to shoot at an expert level, and keep that thing under your pillow, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll have a chance to use it if something bad does happen.

Short version:
Nobody is trying to take away everyone's guns; that won't fix anything.
Giving everyone in the world guns won't fix everything either.
Owning a gun doesn't make you invulnerable and not owning one doesn't make you a walking target.

[zorro]

The Soviet Union established gun control in 1929.
From 1929 to 1953, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Turkey established gun control in 1911.
From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938.
From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, mentally ill people, and other "mongrelized peoples," unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935.
From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964.
From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970.
From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956.
From 1975 to 1977, 1 million "educated people", unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

[Breland]

Great Britain has employed gun control to such success that their police called Bobbies don't need to carry guns. Unfortunately many are shot by criminals. Hmmm.

[CircusRide]

Gun control= pussification

[SoMissTV]

I like Chris Rock's idea of charging $500 per bullet. That'll really make you think twice before going out to do a drive-by.

Besides, there's nothing in the Constitution to prohibit bullet control.

[zorro]

In light of my last post above, consider reading the article Gun Control and Genocide which is found here:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north367.html

The twentieth century, more than any century in recorded history, was the century of man’s inhumanity to man. A memorable phrase, that. But it is misleading. It should be modified: "Governments’ inhumanity to unarmed civilians."
CONCLUSION

Genocide happens.

It doesn’t happen whenever the would-be targets own guns.

[zorro]

"Because the state can no longer protect us from crime, it wants to take away from us the means of protecting ourselves. This is the logic of gun control." -- Joseph Sobran

"Never forget, even for an instant, that the one and only reason anybody has for taking your gun away is to make you weaker than he is, so that he can do something to you that you wouldn't let him do if you were equipped to prevent it. This goes for burglars, muggers, and rapists, and even more so for policement, bureaucrats, and politicians." –- Alexander Hope (L. Neil Smith)<O:p</O:p

[zorro]

Besides, there's nothing in the Constitution to prohibit bullet control.
Actually, I think that you are incorrect here, and I bet a bunch of constitutional lawyers wolud believe the same.

The right to bear arms clearly meant firearms, and firearms without ammo are nothing more than clubs.

Thus, so-called "bullet control" is also a violation of the 2nd Amendment.

[zorro]

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. -- Thomas Jefferson

[58ford]

All I have to say on the matter of gun control is that anyone attempting to take my gun from me WOULD be making the world a safer place.
Simply because they would no longer be in it.

[aaron]

2. Washington DC's low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis' high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.



In what universe is 9 higher than 69?

[aaron]

I'm an idiot, I just got that this was satire.

[Breland]

Gun Control (ghttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/ubreve.gifn) (khttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/schwa.gifn-trhttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/omacr.giflhttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/prime.gif)- being able to place your shots correctly in a thug as he tries to rape you on the Longleaf Trace.