Bower gets raise, Professors still lowest paid in state

[carsalesguy]

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070315/SPORTS/70315018

what a crock of poop. maybe my thoughts about this "raise" for yelling at a bunch of guys on a field who are busting their a$$ to play a game is worth over $200k

but the guy and gal who teach these kids something important that will help them for the rest of their lives are worth around $60k

[EricStratton]

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070315/SPORTS/70315018

what a crock of poop. maybe my thoughts about this "raise" for yelling at a bunch of guys on a field who are busting their a$$ to play a game is worth over $200k

but the guy and gal who teach these kids something important that will help them for the rest of their lives are worth around $60k

Good point, but 30,000+ people don't pay $20+ a pop for a ticket or buy $20 worth of cokes and popcorn to watch a chemistry professor.

Also, I can assure you that the lessons athletes learn on the field are just as valuable as what they learn in a classroom or laboratory.

Also, professors don't spend two or three months a year on the road, away from their families to recruit their students.

Also, professors aren't fired if a majority of their students fail. Coaches are.

Is it fair? Not necessarily. But, I can assure you that Bower has earned every penny he makes. He is still grossly underpaid compared to other D-1 football coaches who haven't had half the success he has.

[CircusRide]

Croom makes about $900,000. What a waste!

[EricStratton]

It ain't right, but it's just like anything else. It's called market value. I'm no economic whiz, so I don't know exactly how all this happened. I know the conferences get a crap load of money from the TV networks and the bowl people. State and Ole Miss and Vandy all get big checks whether they win 10 or lose 10. Same with USM, just not as much as the SEC. And, I know ticket prices seem to rise each year, even when the seats weren't full the year before.

Should Bower and Croom and others be paid this much? Probably not. But, what do you want them to do? Turn it down? Again, these salaries may seem outrageous, but they are justified.

[firefly]

He got ANOTHER raise???! Good garden seed!!! that is waaaaay out of line! People like Police & Firemen protect us & save lives & they barely make enough to keep their families fed! That's a crying shame!:smt118

[To The Topp]

If i can find the link i will post it here. There was a study published by usatoday showing all public D1 programs and the private schools that choose to release coaches contracts. In some cases you can actually pull up a pdf file with the coaches actual contract.

Yes Croom and O at excuse me miss make 900K a year. Bower is the 2nd lowest paid head coach in CUSA. Yet many who criticize him for what he makes also bitch cause he cant dominate cusa.

Do coaches make too much?? I will be the first to say Croom or O are not worth what Bower is yet they make 3 times as much.

Now here is somthing scarey, compare Croom and O to Saban. 900K a year vs over 4 mill.

We have a freakin bargin in Jeff.

[carsalesguy]

i think the better bargain would be to tear down the stadium, get rid of the half-a$$ football program since only a few people like it, and build some classrooms and dorms for students. after all, i thought a college was there to teach people skills, not run around on a field.

i'm not against football at all- i'm the one that sits on the couch and watches the games each and every saturday, but i don't go to the USM games because nobody is there except a few USM alum. and a bunch of drunk students.

[aaron]

Here's my thing. The people that are there, are there out of pride for USM. It doesn't matter if we pay Bower $50,000 or $500,000, they are still going to be there. So, why waste the money? I agree, spend it on classroom supplies.

[politically incorrect]

A mediocre season nets a raise? If he is under contract for four years, why does he get a raise just about every year? What is the purpose of the contract?

Just once I would like to see a coach voluntarily give BACK some of his pay if his team has a losing year. But, no way, because even when they get fired, they still get paid their remaining contract years. That is the only time they care about their contracts.

[EricStratton]

i think the better bargain would be to tear down the stadium, get rid of the half-a$$ football program since only a few people like it, and build some classrooms and dorms for students. after all, i thought a college was there to teach people skills, not run around on a field.

i'm not against football at all- i'm the one that sits on the couch and watches the games each and every saturday, but i don't go to the USM games because nobody is there except a few USM alum. and a bunch of drunk students.

You've obviously never played sports, and, if you did, you had a terrible experience and a terrible coach. I'm sorry. You don't learn people skills in a classroom. You learn people skills from working with other people, which is what you do in football and other team sports.

I'm not a USM alumn, and I'm not really a huge Eagle fan. But, calling the USM football program "half-ass" is just ridiculous.

[EricStratton]

A mediocre season nets a raise? If he is under contract for four years, why does he get a raise just about every year? What is the purpose of the contract?

Just once I would like to see a coach voluntarily give BACK some of his pay if his team has a losing year. But, no way, because even when they get fired, they still get paid their remaining contract years. That is the only time they care about their contracts.

Come on! And, let's just ask the professors to give back some pay if their students don't learn anything or if their students aren't satisfied with the instruction in the class or if too many students fail the class.

Don't worry...it only takes a coach a few losing seasons to get fired. However, there are many incompetent professors who linger around campuses for decades without any positive contribution to their students or their respective institutions.

[tempatv]

You've obviously never played sports, and, if you did, you had a terrible experience and a terrible coach. I'm sorry. You don't learn people skills in a classroom. You learn people skills from working with other people, which is what you do in football and other team sports.

I'm not a USM alumn, and I'm not really a huge Eagle fan. But, calling the USM football program "half-ass" is just ridiculous.

People skills can be learned working at the local grocery store while making 5.15 an hour, so you gotta come up with something better than that.

Personally, the sports program never crossed my mind when picking a college. The decision maker for me was USM offered the academic program I was looking for so it was a no brainer.

[aaron]

To say Southern Miss football players have people skills is quite a stretch. How many players did we suspend last year for bar fighting, drugs, or not obeying the rules?

[To The Topp]

Less than the number who earned degrees. Most years less than the number who earned masters degrees.

[Augustus McRae]

Woodrow, it takes a very small man to count another man's money...

[Augustus McRae]

Let me see - just the ones I know of: Hawkeye, Stratton, and me (ain't sure about Dfus) - we've all been in bar fights (or two). We've also been "disciplined" in athletics in the past for not always "obeying the rules." That mean we ain't got no people skills? Dang - maybe THAT's the problem!


To say Southern Miss football players have people skills is quite a stretch. How many players did we suspend last year for bar fighting, drugs, or not obeying the rules?

[aaron]

Less than the number who earned degrees. Most years less than the number who earned masters degrees.

It doesn't take any people skills to get a degree. Would you really like to do a "Where are they now?" on the football players we've put through the program over the past 5 years? I'm sure you'll have a few shining stars, but I'm talking the majority.

[Augustus McRae]

It doesn't take any people skills to get a degree. Would you really like to do a "Where are they now?" on the football players we've put through the program over the past 5 years? I'm sure you'll have a few shining stars, but I'm talking the majority.


Don't want to be argumentative, Aaron, but this just happens to be an area in which I work and stay abreast of trends pretty closely the last decade. Numerous studies done by the NCAA, the NAIA, and several major universities have validated that the graduation rates and the "where are they now" relative to earnings, promotions, job satisfaction, and other factors among college/university athletes is appreciably HIGHER than graduation rates and the other benchmark factors at the five year mark of other students who matriculate into college/universities.

It is interesting that USM, William Carey, nor ANY colleges and universities are required by accreditating bodies or anyone else to publish the retention, graduation, and "follow up" benchmarks of "where are they now" of the students whose tuition dollars they take and who the professors you mention "mold" and teach while they are there. Yet, athletic programs ARE required to do so and those are made VERY public.

If I am not mistaken, USM has the HIGHEST graduation rate among C-USA schools most years and one of the very highest in the NCAA, Division I. William Carey University almost every year has the highest graduation rate among the GCAC Conference and has received much recognition as having among the highest in the country.

I just happen to know that Jeff Bower, regardless of what you think of his coaching ability or his salary, makes an exceptional commitment to his athletes to see that they remain enrolled or get summer opportunities to get and stay on track to graduation.

But USM aside, it is validated many times over that college and university athletes, indeed, graduate at a higher rate and exceed non-athletes in the benchmark factors of "where are you now" five years after graduation.

[jmack]

i think the better bargain would be to tear down the stadium, get rid of the half-a$$ football program since only a few people like it, and build some classrooms and dorms for students. after all, i thought a college was there to teach people skills, not run around on a field.

i'm not against football at all- i'm the one that sits on the couch and watches the games each and every saturday, but i don't go to the USM games because nobody is there except a few USM alum. and a bunch of drunk students.

I'm sure you are just being facetious, but there are more than a few alumni and drunks at the game.

[aaron]

Don't want to be argumentative, Aaron, but this just happens to be an area in which I work and stay abreast of trends pretty closely the last decade. Numerous studies done by the NCAA, the NAIA, and several major universities have validated that the graduation rates and the "where are they now" relative to earnings, promotions, job satisfaction, and other factors among college/university athletes is appreciably HIGHER than graduation rates and the other benchmark factors at the five year mark of other students who matriculate into college/universities.

It is interesting that USM, William Carey, nor ANY colleges and universities are required by accreditating bodies or anyone else to publish the retention, graduation, and "follow up" benchmarks of "where are they now" of the students whose tuition dollars they take and who the professors you mention "mold" and teach while they are there. Yet, athletic programs ARE required to do so and those are made VERY public.

If I am not mistaken, USM has the HIGHEST graduation rate among C-USA schools most years and one of the very highest in the NCAA, Division I. William Carey University almost every year has the highest graduation rate among the GCAC Conference and has received much recognition as having among the highest in the country.

I just happen to know that Jeff Bower, regardless of what you think of his coaching ability or his salary, makes an exceptional commitment to his athletes to see that they remain enrolled or get summer opportunities to get and stay on track to graduation.

But USM aside, it is validated many times over that college and university athletes, indeed, graduate at a higher rate and exceed non-athletes in the benchmark factors of "where are you now" five years after graduation.

I understand that. Two things though. First, I'm not just talking graduation. Which is all I hear about Bower's football players. With the "Where are they now" statistics, they talk about college athletes in general. Softball, lacrosse, table tennis players, everything. So, they doesn't really give me anything to go for the football team.

[SoMissTV]

Woodrow, it takes a very small man to count another man's money...

.... unless that money is coming from the taxpayers of Mississippi.

[Augustus McRae]

The studies mentioned include ALL athletes. In fact, if my memory serves me correctly, the graduation rate among football athletes is significantly better than among Division I basketball athletes and BOTH are better than the general student population. That's also true of the "where are they now" factors you mentioned.

Hell, I know more former college professors in legal trouble than former college athletes - truth be known.



I understand that. Two things though. First, I'm not just talking graduation. Which is all I hear about Bower's football players. With the "Where are they now" statistics, they talk about college athletes in general. Softball, lacrosse, table tennis players, everything. So, they doesn't really give me anything to go for the football team.

[Augustus McRae]

1) VAST majority of Bower, Croom, or O's money does NOT come from tax coffers of course;
2) See prior quote.



.... unless that money is coming from the taxpayers of Mississippi.

[SoMissTV]

1) VAST majority of Bower, Croom, or O's money does NOT come from tax coffers of course;


Show me.

[Augustus McRae]

Do your own research. I don't have time to spoon feed your argument. MOST of the salary of all of those coaches comes from booster club, foundation, and media money. Let's don't argue just to argue.

It does not matter anyway - to me - that's my point. The favorite past-time of "whiny butt" America is to talk about how overpaid EVERYONE ELSE is - tax money or not.

If I know a man or woman makes a lot of money, I may try to do business with them or "hit them up" for something good and charitable, but I'm not going to "count their money vs. mine" and whine about it. That's ALL I'm saying!



Show me.

[SoMissTV]

Do your own research. I don't have time to spoon feed your argument.


Not my argument. I asserted that taxpayers of this state pay a majority of his salary. You dissented. I've asked you to back up your dissenting opinion. You have declined to do so.

Silence is compliance, so I can only assume that I am correct.

We are all supposed to be guardians of our tax dollars. Are you saying that you don't care how the state spends money, and that you have no concerns over the amount of money spent? That's dangerous talk for a republican, Gus.

[Augustus McRae]

My silence did not mean compliance. It means I don't want to mess with you on this issue. I don't give a rip whether you believe me or not. Go check it out for yourself if you are interested in seeing. I think, in fact, on another thread on this issue the State money and "other income" is broken down for you.

I'll also be honest with you: I'd rather pay football coaches AND teachers and enhance our Medicaid program with tax money than to give a penny to a automobile manufacturer that's going to take, take, and take, then "drag up" when the incentives expire. Is that Republican enough for you?



Not my argument. I asserted that taxpayers of this state pay a majority of his salary. You dissented. I've asked you to back up your dissenting opinion. You have declined to do so.

Silence is compliance, so I can only assume that I am correct.

We are all supposed to be guardians of our tax dollars. Are you saying that you don't care how the state spends money, and that you have no concerns over the amount of money spent? That's dangerous talk for a republican, Gus.

[SoMissTV]

My silence did not mean compliance.



Silence is compliance, and your reluctance to back up your assertions damages the credibility of your assertions.

Sorry Gus.

[SoMissTV]

I'll also be honest with you: I'd rather pay football coaches AND teachers and enhance our Medicaid program with tax money than to give a penny to a automobile manufacturer that's going to take, take, and take, then "drag up" when the incentives expire. Is that Republican enough for you?



qft

[jmack]

Not sure of the numbers, but Bower does receive a great deal of his total salary from endorsements from team uniforms and his television show with John Cox on radio and tv.

[Augustus McRae]

Silence, indeed, is often indicative of simple kindness and restraint, my young friend. But call me "incredible" if you wish.

Have yourself a nice day, sport!


Silence is compliance, and your reluctance to back up your assertions damages the credibility of your assertions.

Sorry Gus.

[SoMissTV]

Silence, indeed, is often indicative of simple kindness and restraint, my young friend.

Or ignorance.

Whatever works for you, Gus.

[Augustus McRae]

Or ignorance.

Whatever works for you, Gus.

So much for the milk of human kindness...

[53NewYorker]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/graphics/coaches_contracts/flash.htm

Try this, SMT. I think you'll find that (as of 2005) most head football coaches in this state get paid roughly $200,000 /yr by the state and have separate payments for TV and media appearances (i.e. they have to pay Bower to be on the post-game shows and weekly game reviews). The state might pay incentives for graduation rates (see Bower's contract), but that's about all.

Here are some quotes:

Sylvester Croom
Base Salary $190,000
...
TV and Radio $750,000
Academic incentives $ 20,000
TOTAL $960,000
Ed Ogreron
Base Salary $200,000

Jeff Bower
Base Salary $220,223.23
Incentives [lots of them, see the contract]


Shoot, Tommy Tuberville only gets paid $235,000 by the State of Alabama. That sounds more correct to me than simply asserting that the state pays the majority of the amounts in these contracts.

[To The Topp]

Well just a few short weeks ago i was blasted for objecting to the budget book being published on here. If you look closely at that book you will see how the public and private money breaks out.

USM, OM and state you are allowed 100K in state moneys to go towards athletics. The historically black schools are allowed 500K.

On the budget book you can see every hc's salary broken into 2 numbers. The smaller of the 2 is state funds. It is a small portion.

If they use other moneys then where would the athletic revenue go? And why would the state auditors not have screamed already??

[53NewYorker]

Here's your link, ttt: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2006-11-16-coaches-salaries-cover_x.htm

[SoMissTV]

Thanks for posting. According to the contract, JB receives $220,223.23 per year, plus two supplemental payments per year from the University, bringing the total compensation by the University to 275k and change. USAToday.com shows JB's overall compensation package to be $350,000.

According to these published figures, the taxpayers of Mississippi contribute to 79% of JB's annual compensation.

I believe that gives any taxpayer the right to questions the expense.

[aaron]

Hmm, so Bower is one of the highest paid coaches without incentives?

[53NewYorker]

Without 'outside' or 'other' income. All seem to have incentives paid by the state for graduation rates and GPAs.

[To The Topp]

HRDeptID Fund DeptID Program
00002538 Bower,Jeffrey J 0.94

1 Head Coach And Instructor 12 239,671 0 239,671
(See School Of Human ( 15,298 ) ( 0 ) ( 15,298 )
Performance And Recreation)
TOTAL 12 (254,969 ) ( 0 ) (254,969 )

Back to the eariler post, this is from that doc that was posted. On this budget only 6% is charged back to the edcuational side. That is because players get an hour credit just like in high schools.

[EricStratton]

People skills can be learned working at the local grocery store while making 5.15 an hour, so you gotta come up with something better than that.

Personally, the sports program never crossed my mind when picking a college. The decision maker for me was USM offered the academic program I was looking for so it was a no brainer.

People skills can be learned in a lot of places. I didn't say football or sports was the ONLY place.

[EricStratton]

People are paid according to the market value of their job. I am. Bower is. All of you are. Get over it, or get into coaching. Good luck.

[EricStratton]

Or ignorance.

Whatever works for you, Gus.

This reminds me why I took a break from here. Thank you. Adios.