This week's sermon

[zorro]

In honor of my 3000th post, I am starting a thread where a few memorable points or statements from a sermon or other Christian message that was given that week can be posted. Obviously, therefore, this thread will not interest everybody, but I think that there are a few here who would be interested to have a thread dedicated to this topic. If you heard something interesting in the sermon that you heard this week, please consider posting it here.

Today the sermon that I heard was on the topic of The Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20). During this sermon the following 3 points were made:

(I) That the real religion of most Americans can be described as Moralistic Therapeutic Deism.

(II) The God of most Americans is a combination of a divine butler and a cosmic therapist.

(III) And that the 2-fold task of evangelism in The Great Commission is:
1) to save souls
2) to save minds

All of these points are interesting, and IMHO, they are also accurate.

It also appears that Christianity today is failing in its full task of evangelism; thus, many of those who claim to be Christians don't think very differently from the non-Christian pagan society in which they live.

[SoMissTV]

That many people picture Jesus as a thin, even emaciated, individual, which is odd because he's always using food as an analogy or is in the process of eating / serving / making / blessing dinner.

[Hermione]

Zorro! Are you crazy? You said "pagan" -- whatever you do, don't say "heathen" or you KNOW what will happen!! ;)

Our very excellent sermon today was on the Prodigal Son. I know many of you attend churches which don't ordain women, but my female clergy-person is one of the best preachers I have ever heard. And it's straight Gospel all the way. Her point this morning was that the central character of that parable is not either son, it's the father, or really the Father. He is out watching the road for the errant son, he does the running, the embracing, the celebrating. All the son had to do was to turn towards home.

[virgo]

Congrats on your 3,000th post!

[onlyme]

Zorro! Are you crazy? You said "pagan" -- whatever you do, don't say "heathen" or you KNOW what will happen!! ;)

Our very excellent sermon today was on the Prodigal Son. I know many of you attend churches which don't ordain women, but my female clergy-person is one of the best preachers I have ever heard. And it's straight Gospel all the way. Her point this morning was that the central character of that parable is not either son, it's the father, or really the Father. He is out watching the road for the errant son, he does the running, the embracing, the celebrating. All the son had to do was to turn towards home.

I live on the opposite end of the USA and we had exactly the same topic with exactly the same message :)

[Mr. Bama]

(I) That the real religion of most Americans can be described as Moralistic Therapeutic Deism.


Is this a bad thing?

[amanda]

I live on the opposite end of the USA and we had exactly the same topic with exactly the same message :)

You an Episcopalian too? :) The Prodigal Son was also the subject at my church!

[Augustus McRae]

Was also the subject (from the 15th Chapter of Luke) - along with the Parable of the Lost Sheep and the Parable of the Lost Coin - at the two churches I attended yesterday in the deep recesses of the "country" in Jasper and Newton counties.



You an Episcopalian too? :) The Prodigal Son was also the subject at my church!

[SoMissTV]

Most churches use the same liturgical calendar for scripture. I went to two different churches on Sunday; both used the same set of scriptures.

[Hermione]

It's the Lectionary, which is used in the Catholic, Episcopal and Methodist churches, and others. Presbyterians??

Btw, for her doctoral project my minister has done an analysis of the parts of the Bible which are read in the Lectionary, those read in the new Revised Common Lectionary, and those which are never read. Any of you who think (like I did) that the Lectionary covers pretty much the whole Bible will be in for a rude shock. Entire books are never read, and verses are chopped short. The message of the "mainstream" churches is being manipulated to a large extent. It behoves every believer to read the Bible themselves and not just go by the Lectionary readings.

[SoMissTV]

Presbyterians??


Yes.

[Hermione]

Yes.

Did y'all go to the RCL this year or late last year??

[SoMissTV]

Did y'all go to the RCL this year or late last year??

RCL?

[Hermione]

Revised Common Lectionary. I don't know a lot about it, but I understand it's "worse" than the one we had. Are you PCA or what?

[SoMissTV]

I was PC(USA) in a former life, but not now.

[onlyme]

You an Episcopalian too? :) The Prodigal Son was also the subject at my church!

No, evangelical Lutheran :)
Lutherans and Espicopalians are both liturgical, that's probably why there are similar sermons at the same time.

[Augustus McRae]

I think I'm an MTD (Moralistic Therapeutic Deist) with visiting privileges in the United Methodist Church. I did not know that until today, by the way!

[Augustus McRae]

You got my curious up, Only. What's the difference in an "evangelical Lutheran" and the rest of them? I could venture a "guess" from the word evangelical, but I'd be interested to hear when you get time. Thanks!


No, evangelical Lutheran :)
Lutherans and Espicopalians are both liturgical, that's probably why there are similar sermons at the same time.

[zorro]

It's the Lectionary, which is used in the Catholic, Episcopal and Methodist churches, and others. Presbyterians??
I know that SMT answered "yes", but I would have answered "no". He mentioned that he used to attend a PCUSA church. I must admit that I am unfamiliar with whether they use the Lectionary or not. I know that the PCA, OPC, and some other Presbyterian churches do not do so.

[Augustus McRae]

If my memory serves me correctly, Z, you are exactly right. PCUSA and the others you mentioned do organize liturgy (although it may not be called that) around the "Christian year" but do not have a cycle of Lectionary as such - if my memory serves me- which ain't always the case, mind you!

Rev. Gus McRae, MTD



I know that SMT answered "yes", but I would have answered "no". He mentioned that he used to attend a PCUSA church. I must admit that I am unfamiliar with whether they use the Lectionary or not. I know that the PCA, OPC, and some other Presbyterian churches do not do so.

[SoMissTV]

Presbyterian Church, U.S.A. Lectionary (http://www.pcusa.org/devotions/lectionary/index.htm)

[SoMissTV]

The lectionary for PC(USA) is developed by the Consultation on Common Texts. Other members of CCT are:


Anglican Church of Canada
Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
Christian Reformed Church in North America
Church of the Brethren
Episcopal Church
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada
Free Methodist Church in Canada
Liturgy and Life: American Baptist Fellowship for Liturgical Renewal
Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod
Mennonite Church
National Conference of Catholic Bishops of the United States
Polish National Catholic Church
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
Presbyterian Church in Canada
Reformed Church in America
Unitarian Universalist Christian Fellowship
United Church of Canada
United Church of Christ
United Methodist Church
source: www.commontexts.org

[zorro]

Is this a bad thing?
Bama, though Moralistic Therapeutic Deism probably accurately describes what most Americans actually believe regarding religion, it is NOT the position of Christianity as defined by the Scriptures or by the historical creeds of Christian churches. And this was one of the points that the preacher was making yesterday morning. He was pointing out that the religion that many professing Christians actually espouse in surveys is really not significantly different than that of most who don't claim to be Christians. Gus is an obvious example of this: he admits above that his religion could be described as Moral Therapeutic Deism and yet elsewhere he claims to be a Christian.

[Augustus McRae]

I stand corrected and appreciate it! I'll be able to get that question on Jeapordy or on "Bible Bowl" right next time I encounter it!

I bet those Consultantion on Common Texts meetings get interesting! Heck, trying to get Catholics, Mennonites, UU's, and the frozen chosen to agree on relevant Scripture. That would be almost like a discussion on MyH.com, huh?

Thanks for the information!



The lectionary for PC(USA) is developed by the Consultation on Common Texts. Other members of CCT are:

Anglican Church of Canada
Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
Christian Reformed Church in North America
Church of the Brethren
Episcopal Church
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada
Free Methodist Church in Canada
Liturgy and Life: American Baptist Fellowship for Liturgical Renewal
Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod
Mennonite Church
National Conference of Catholic Bishops of the United States
Polish National Catholic Church
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
Presbyterian Church in Canada
Reformed Church in America
Unitarian Universalist Christian Fellowship
United Church of Canada
United Church of Christ
United Methodist Churchsource: www.commontexts.org (http://www.commontexts.org)

[Augustus McRae]

Fairly stated, Z. Maybe we can get Dean Register to head up the MTD in the Hburg area. If so, we would not have a Lectionery, I assume?



Bama, though Moralistic Therapeutic Deism probably accurately describes what most Americans actually believe regarding religion, it is NOT the position of Christianity as defined by the Scriptures or by the historical creeds of Christian churches. And this was one of the points that the preacher was making yesterday morning. He was pointing out that the religion that many professing Christians actually espouse in surveys is really not significantly different than that of most who don't claim to be Christians. Gus is an obvious example of this: he admits above that his religion could be described as Moral Therapeutic Deism and yet elsewhere he claims to be a Christian.

[Augustus McRae]

"...I am the angel of God, and I've been sent to this earth to find an example of imperfect man. (Gus) has been chosen as the most likely candidate...."

Red-Haired Stranger
Willie Nelson

[onlyme]

You got my curious up, Only. What's the difference in an "evangelical Lutheran" and the rest of them? I could venture a "guess" from the word evangelical, but I'd be interested to hear when you get time. Thanks!

I didn't know the difference myself until I moved to the USA :)
In Germany I only encountered the "evangelical" version, that's the way I was brought up. I guess you could say that evangelical Lutherans are not as conservative as Missouri Synod Lutherans ( as a matter of fact, while "we" are a liturgical church, we are rather liberal thinkers in comparison to a lot of other denominations ) For example, even though I am a Lutheran, I would not be allowed to take communion in a Missouri Synod Church unless I become a member of that particular congregation. One of our interim pastors was not able to conduct the funeral for his own mother because she was a Missouri Synod Lutheran and he could not take communion during the service. Missouri Synod does not allow female pastors and - I think - some services are held in Latin, comparable to some conservative catholic churches. I know that "evangelicals" are supposed to " talk and convert", but you won't find me proselytizing :)

[53NewYorker]

We're not on any schedule other than getting systematically through Acts. Two sermons yesterday were on "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" in Philippians 2:12-13 in the larger context of sanctification, growth in grace, and biblical discipleship.

The second was on (put down the pitchforks everyone) the "sharp disagreement" between Paul and Barnabas on whether (John) Mark should go back to the Asian churches after the council in Jerusalem in Acts 15. This resulted in Barnabas and Paul going their separate ways. Mark would later go on to write the second gospel. Paul actually called Mark a 'deserter' at this time, though he would later call him 'useful'.

[Augustus McRae]

Without question, the most edifying, clarifying, and uplifting Bible study I have ever done is one that begins with the appearance of this man, Saul, at the stoning of Stephen - in the 8th Chapter of Acts (I think - doing that from memory!) - and proceeding through all of the journeys and writings of Saul/Paul.

There is a "pure-ness" in the role model, life, and teachings of Jesus Christ, of course. In following the journey of Saul/Paul, we get to see the REAL LIFE journey (and change!) of a man truly touched by this man, Jesus, and truly committed to understanding, following, and offering Jesus to others.

The Gospels and this journey of Saul/Paul together are "the real picture."

We're not on any schedule other than getting systematically through Acts. Two sermons yesterday were on "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" in Philippians 2:12-13 in the larger context of sanctification, growth in grace, and biblical discipleship.

The second was on (put down the pitchforks everyone) the "sharp disagreement" between Paul and Barnabas on whether (John) Mark should go back to the Asian churches after the council in Jerusalem in Acts 15. This resulted in Barnabas and Paul going their separate ways. Mark would later go on to write the second gospel. Paul actually called Mark a 'deserter' at this time, though he would later call him 'useful'.

[zorro]

This weekend I heard a great message on God's revelation to mankind. The high points, as I remember them, are below.

God has revealed himself to us in creation, i.e., by what He has made. God's revelation in nature, i.e. creation, speaks about God who Himself spoke that very creation into existence. Creation itself reveals something about God's invisible attrubutes of wisdom, power, holiness, and justice (see Psalm 19:1-6 and Romans 1:20). This Natural Revelation is universal, but it is limited in its message. It does not tell us about God's love, grace, and mercy towards sinners.

However, God has chosen to reveal His saving mercy towards a lost world in the Scriptures. There are 3 unique elements regarding the Scriptures which were then discussed, and from these 3 unique elements concerning the Scriptures, 5 implications (or applications) were then given.

3 unique elements of the Scriptures:

I) the character of the scriptures reflect the character of God Himself. What the Bible says, God says (see II Timothy 3:16 and II Peter 1:20,21). They are thus inerrant and infallible because God, who spoke them, is perfect and without error. They are authoritative because He is authoritative.

II) the content of the Bible is God's revelation to sinful men and women of His gift of salvation. The content of the scriptures is ultimately His saving purposes and His saving plan through the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ (see Hebrews 1:1,2)

III) this revelation has Christ at its center (see Luke 24:13-27). The center of the Holy Scriptures is Jesus Christ. Without Christ, all we have is interesting stories. If Jesus is removed from the Scriptures, we may have a good message, but we won't have a saving one. Christ is the Word of God and the fullest revelation of God's saving mercy (see John 1:1-3, 14: Colossians 1:15-20).

5 basic major implications in light of the 3 unique elements above (as it relates to our handling of the Scriptures):

I) The Bible alone is our rule of faith and practice since the Bible, as God's written word, is authoritative.

II) Continuing new revelation from God is precluded and superfluous. What God has to say to us has been said in the blood of His son.

III) We cannot allow secondary facts and figures from the Bible to obscure its primary message.

IV) Feelings and experiences are to be brought under the authority of Holy Scripture and not vice versa. It is not unlikely for fallen sinners to have "mirage" experiences. If an experience contradicts the message of the Scriptures or obscures Christ, then that experience must be rejected.

V) We must be careful how we handle, divide, and interpret the Word of God. Law must not be confused with Gospel, indicatives must not be confused with imperatives, etc. Note: what God gives us in the Gospel is what He has commanded us in the Law.

[Hermione]

We got to have church without any music, so the choir got to sit out in the pews, which I enjoyed for a change. There is a purple veil over the crosses and dried branches on the altar instead of flowers, so the mood was very quiet.

PS anybody know an available organist?

[amanda]

We got to have church without any music, so the choir got to sit out in the pews, which I enjoyed for a change. There is a purple veil over the crosses and dried branches on the altar instead of flowers, so the mood was very quiet.

PS anybody know an available organist?

Ya'll might want to consider a "Bertha" like we have. :) She's programable. A local organist comes during the week and plays the music, come Sunday we hit a button at the right times, and Presto - music! :)

[carsalesguy]

what happened to your organist? ya'll run him off?

[Hermione]

Our regular organist developed some health problems, and we have been depending on a couple of other people to fill-in. Every now and then we have nobody. Since like yours, parts of our service are usually sung, it really changes when there's no music.

PS and one really talented young man was STOLEN from us by University Baptist. He is really missed, and I don't buy for a minute the specious excuse that he left because he was actually a Baptist. ;)

[Hermione]

This is for Zorro, who will be happy to know that I paid better attention to the sermon this week just for him. ;)

The Gospel for Palm Sunday is always the Passion story. The sermon was about Judas andPaul, and the difference between remorse/regret and true repentence. Judas was remorseful for what he had done -- he gave back the money and then committed suicide. Simple remorse leads to despair. As the preacher said, Judas took eternity into his own hands instead of trusting God to redeem him. Paul, on the other hand, though just as guilty as Judas, truly repented of what he had done, and by trusting God instead of himself, through repentence was cleansed of his sin and able to give himself to God to be used for good.

The whole service was incredibly moving, as Palm Sunday should be. Dr. Lares (whom some of you know and who has a glorious voice) sang Handel's "He was despised" from Messiah, and our recessional hymn was "O Sacred Head sore wounded" -- there were lots of teary eyes.

Ok, Z. There you go!

[zorro]

This morning we also had a sermon on the Cross of Christ (i.e., His Passion, or his sufferings and death in the place of sinners). We also sang O Sacred Head, Now Wounded (words written by Bernard of Clairvaux in the 12th century) and tears were present in our service as well. The words of this great hymn are below:

O sacred Head, now wounded,
With grief and shame weighed down,
Now scornfully surrounded
With thorns, Thine only crown;
O sacred Head, what glory
What bliss ’til now was Thine
Yet though despised and gory
I joy to call Thee mine

What Thou, my Lord, hast suffered,
Was all for sinners’ gain;
Mine, mine was the transgression,
But Thine the deadly pain.
Lo, here I fall, my Savior!
’Tis I deserve Thy place;
Look on me with Thy favor,
Vouchsafe me to Thy grace.

The joy can never be spoken,
Above all joys beside,
When in Thy body broken
I thus with safety hide.
My Lord of Life, desiring
Thy glory now to see,
Beside Thy cross expiring,
I’d breathe my soul to Thee.

What language shall I borrow
To praise Thee, heavenly friend,
For this my dying sorrow,
Thy pity without end?
Lord make me Thine forever,
Nor let me faithless prove
Oh let me never, never
Abuse such dying love

Forbid that I should leave Thee
O Jesus leave not me!
By faith I would receive Thee
Thy blood can make me free
When strength and comfort languish
And I must hence depart
Release me then from anguish
By Thine own wounded heart

Be near when I am dying
Oh show Thy cross to me
And for my succor flying
Come Lord and set me free
These eyes new faith receiving
From Jesus shall not move
For he who dies believing
Dies safely, through Thy love

[Hermione]

Z, I guess you know there are all sorts of different sets of verses, although the first one is pretty standard. Our organist for today, who is a music professor, told me that there are dozens of settings of the melody as well. (It's from a Bach chorale, so it's been arranged and rearranged) The last two verses in our version (Robert Bridges) are my favorite:

In thy most bitter passion
my heart to share doth cry,
with thee for my salvation
upon the cross to die.
Ah, keep my heart thus moved
to stand thy cross beneath,
to mourn thee, well-beloved,
yet thank thee for thy death.

My days are few, O fail not,
with thine immortal power,
to hold me that I quail not
in death's most fearful hour;
that I may fight befriended,
and see in my last strife
to me thine arms extended
upon the cross of life.

[zorro]

This morning I heard one of the best sermons on a Resurrection Sunday that I have ever heard.

The title of the sermon was "The Significance of the Resurrection of Christ".

It was initially pointed out that there are 3 significant resurrections spoken of in Scripture:

1) the resurrection of Christ in the past over 2000 years ago

2) the resurrection of sinners in the present day

3) the resurrection of all men in the future on the last day

The message today centered on the 1st of these resurrections, the resurrection of Christ.

Christ rose from the grave -- so what?

The resurrection of Christ has the following implications:

1) to demonstrate the deity of his person.

Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord -- Romans 1:1-4

Jesus was, has been, and always will be the eternal son of God. His deity was veiled by his humanity while he was here on this earth. Since His conception, He has not only been truly God, but truly man as well.

2) to confirm the sufficiency of His sacrifice for His people.

Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification. -- Romans 4:25

Christ was raised from the dead because His sacrifice was sufficient for the justification of His people. We are made right with God on the basis of the person and work of Christ. There is no other ground for anyone's justification than Christ's person and work. The resurrection of Christ was God's stamp of approval on the person and work of Jesus Christ for His people. The resurrection proved that it was sufficient and accomplished its design for us. Christ was our substitute; He took the place of His people. In the resurrection, God says "My son's sacrifice is sufficient and nothing else is needed."

The most important question that any person can ever ask is: Have I been made right with God? Jesus Christ is the only hope for this to be truly answered in the affirmative.

3) to complete the salvation of His people

For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. -- Romans 6:5-11

God is not just interested in the forgiveness of our sins; He is also interested in the transformation of His people. Christians have been united to Christ in His death and resurrection. The resurrection is more than a spectator event for Christians; it is something that Christians participate in. Sometimes, though, Christians act like Jesus is still in the tomb; but, in reality, He is alive and He gives His people power to live the Christian life now.

The complete salvation of His people, however, occurs in the future. Christ's resurrection confirms that one day our corruptible bodies will be raised from the dead and changed into incorruptible bodies (see I Corinthians 15). Jesus' resurrection is a pledge of our resurrection.

. . . if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." -- Romans 10:9-11

[EricStratton]

"God is not just interested in the forgiveness of our sins; He is also interested in the transformation of His people. Christians have been united to Christ in His death and resurrection. The resurrection is more than a spectator event for Christians; it is something that Christians participate in. Sometimes, though, Christians act like Jesus is still in the tomb; but, in reality, He is alive and He gives His people power to live the Christian life now.

The complete salvation of His people, however, occurs in the future. Christ's resurrection confirms that one day our corruptible bodies will be raised from the dead and changed into incorruptible bodies (see I Corinthians 15). Jesus' resurrection is a pledge of our resurrection."


I could not agree more.

[zorro]

This morning I heard a message titled "Man As God Made Him".

<O:p</O:p5 points regarding this were given
<O:p</O:p
I - God created man
<O:p</O:p
II - God created man, male and female
<O:p</O:p
III - God created man, body and soul
<O:p</O:p
IV - God created man, dominant over the animals
<O:p</O:p
V- God created man in a state of holiness
<O:p</O:p
The first 4 points are still true regarding man even in his fallen sinful state, but the 5th point is not.

<O:p</O:pI will only note briefly what was said about the 1st and last of these points.

<O:p</O:pMan as God made him knew that God made him. Fallen sinful man still knows that God made him.
<O:p</O:p
Romans 1:18-32 (note especially verses 18-21) teaches that the knowledge of God is plain even to the wicked, and therefore, they are without excuse. Even sin doesn't prevent (indeed, it cannot prevent) all knowledge of God the Creator. God, however, is unwelcome in the thinking of the wicked and thus they suppress this knowledge of the one true God and replace it with something else of their own choosing. Not all are as obvious about it though as one who said, "I am an atheist, God knows!"
<O:p</O:p
The wicked says "in his heart" that there is no God. He says it "in his heart" because his brain knows better. Atheism isn't thinking -- it is wishful thinking. The Bible calls such thinkers by their real names -- "fools" (see Psalm 14:1).
<O:p</O:p
For sinful man the heart of the problem is the problem of the heart.
<O:p</O:p
A question for modern man: Who, or what, made what is made? The answer is either God or nothing.
<O:p</O:p
Man as God originally made him was created in the image of God, one who is good, righteous, and holy. And yet man was originally created with the possibility of sinning against God, and he chose to do so. As an intellectual being who can make choices, this image of God was defaced by man's fall into sin; however, the moral image of God in man was utterly effaced by man's fall into sin. Any true holiness was blasted into oblivion without any vestigial traces being left in sinful man.
<O:p</O:p
Below are 2 scripture passages concerning man
<O:p</O:p
The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the earth ..." -- Genesis 6:5-7a

what is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man that you care for him? Yet you have made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor. -- Psalm 8:4-5

You are either in a state in which one day you will be perfectly crowned with honor and glory, or in a state in which one day you will be permanently blotted out of the earth into hell.

God has provided a way of salvation through Christ, and we should not wait or delay in coming to Christ for salvation if we want to avoid being blotted out forever. Come to Christ now so that your sins (and not you) will be blotted out forever.

The man who comes to Christ will return to man as God originally made him, and even better, as God remakes him in Jesus Christ.