Poll: Should threads on Atheism be included in the Religion/Spirituality Forum?

[amanda]

The question for the MH community is whether or not threads regarding Atheism should be contained in the Religion/Spirituality Forum. Feel free to discuss why you think it should or should not.

This poll will close in 3 days.

[mac]

Why shouldn't it? If it's going to be discussed anywhere on the site, that's certainly the forum for it.

[big john]

I didn't think atheists belived in religion or spirituality.

[SoMissTV]

Where's the poll?

[aaron]

I added the poll.

[Skink]

I think threads on Atheism should be allowed because the Belief in the absolute absence of God is still a commentary on religion, faith, and so on.

[dream member]

I have to be honest...and I know that my opinion really weighs nothing here, since I'm so new...but I'm absolutely tired of seeing the religious debate threads. It seems that a lot of people are wrapped up in it and I'm just not interested enough anymore to read half of what is posted on here (because of what I've seen there).

I met some people on here that are pretty cool and I got drawn in by all the interesting topics and stuff about Hattiesburg I didn't know...if I wanted to join a religion forum, I would have gone elsewhere.

Please, please, please, please don't take offense to this, by any means. It is truly not meant to offend anyone. I'm just uninterested and don't really care.

But as to answer the original question, sure, why not...but I see it becoming a big debate/argument that will go nowhere...FAST!!

[HorseWhisperer]

Really I thought the religion/spirituality threads would be about religion and things of the sort. I have started avoiding most of them because IMO they are being flooded with non believers with negitave oppenions. Sorry if that offends anyone... I still view some of the religion/spirituality threads but to me atheism is a lack of religion and spirituality and shouldnt be included in religion/spirituality. Once again sorry if this offends anyone.

[SoMissTV]

HorseWhisperer-

You know that you can start a thread dealing with a specific religious topic, right?

[HorseWhisperer]

Yes I do. Im just pondering in my youth...Now I really dont understand what makes people thing athiesm is a religion... Is it? Why do you guys think it is or isnt?

[mac]

Nevermind. I misunderstood the post. My bad. tbbbbbbth

[Quark]

I lurked here for a couple of days before joining. I did join because I was very impressed with the posters here and the level of discourse. You've got a good community and you should take that into account when making your decision. I know it's not easy to suddenly get a bunch of new folks that want to domniate a few subjects. Hey, that's a legitimate concern. That said I hope you chose to let atheism be included in the Religion forum but I for one will understand and respect your decision.

My hats off to those who took the time to start a new poll. It speaks volumes of you folks.

[Quark]

I didn't think atheists belived in religion or spirituality.I believe in spirituality. Most prominent atheists that I know of do also. It's not religious based but spiritual nonetheless.

[EricStratton]

I would like to know who votes which choice on this poll given the recent influx of brand new posters with very limited MyHattiesburg interests.

So much for a freakin', Democratic secret ballot, Doc? I voted Yes.

[EricStratton]

Well, we have documented that Valk et al. are rallying the troops. I think it is important to know how much "ballot stuffing" may be going on.

We used to make other votes public in order to gauge how much hubbarrister and his various incarnations were influencing the vote. What's to stop someone from going to church Wednesday night and getting everyone at church to register for the sole purpose of voting in this poll?

That person must have a miserable life.:)

I see your point. Is it the validity or the reliability we are trying to keep intact? I get those two confused. Kind of like the Mayans and the Aztecs.

[Conveyor Belt]

so, doc, are you afraid they're stuffing the box for or against the measure? From what I've read, the atheist want to make certain you know that atheism is NOT a religion.

I think they should be there, especially since they're dealing with how you believe the world is ordered, which, IMO, is a precursor to religion, whether you come to conclude it's a god force or not.

[dollfus46]

I voted to allow it because it is the opposing opinion and those having opposing opinions should be allowed a voice too. Agnostics, atheists, spiritualists, aren't going to change my opinion nor derail my faith. I'm not threatened by them. Most I choose not to read anyway. I know who believes what by now. And, I don't read anyone's dissertation on any subject, although I'm guilty of being long winded on more than a few occasions. Dollfus<< A.A.D.D.

[fuzzis]

It seems to me that atheism and theism are intimately and intricately connected...and it's very difficult to have a discussion of atheism without having a discussion of theism.

If you don't appreciate the things that people are saying, then don't engage with them. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Bahlk]

I voted yes because I believe even though Atheisism is not a religion that the topics of religion and the lack of should be in the religion forum.

[jmb]

I voted yes because atheism, whether it is or is not considered a religion, is hard to discuss without religion entering into the equation. However, my yes vote is not an invitation to flame wars between atheists and non-atheists. Someone posted in another thread that he had quit reading the religion posts because it had turned into a did-did not-did-did not conversation. Once someone has stated an opinion, how many times does it need to be restated wthin the same discussion? That's when I tend to agree to disagree.

[aaron]

So, atheism does't believe in a higher power. Atheism only believes in science. So, what would an atheist talk about? Science. So, science topics are allowed in the religion forum now? I mean, for anything else, an atheist is just going to basically say "prove it".

[fuzzis]

So, atheism does't believe in a higher power. Atheism only believes in science. So, what would an atheist talk about? Science. So, science topics are allowed in the religion forum now? I mean, for anything else, an atheist is just going to basically say "prove it".

As an atheist (I suppose if I gotta get labeled), I don't only believe in science; I just don't believe in god. I don't think it's an either/or proposition (science or higher power).

[aaron]

As an atheist (I suppose if I gotta get labeled), I don't only believe in science; I just don't believe in god. I don't think it's an either/or proposition (science or higher power).

Well, my point is, does anyone really know what an atheist topic is? We're not saying atheist aren't allowed, we're saying atheist topics.

[jmb]

So, atheism does't believe in a higher power. Atheism only believes in science. So, what would an atheist talk about? Science. So, science topics are allowed in the religion forum now? I mean, for anything else, an atheist is just going to basically say "prove it".

Don't we now have atheists posting in the religion threads? I am still trying to get caught up since Friday so I haven't gotten to those threads yet, but I would imagine the atheists are discussing why they believe what they believe and why non-atheists are wrong in believing what they believe.

[aaron]

Yes, that has been occurring, but we're now talking about atheist topics. My simple question is, what is an atheist topic?

[fuzzis]

Yes, that has been occurring, but we're now talking about atheist topics. My simple question is, what is an atheist topic?

The poll question doesn't read as being about atheist "topics". Or at least it doesn't to me. :confused: When I see "atheist threads" I interpret that to mean threads about atheism...that belief system. :confused:

[just-Wynn]

i voted "yes" because more often than not, when anyone says "atheist" peoples start making associations to religion in some form or other. Is atheism a religion? Who cares? It is entangled in religious topics and beliefs to such an extent that it has relevance in religious discussion.

[jmb]

The poll question doesn't read as being about atheist "topics". Or at least it doesn't to me. :confused: When I see "atheist threads" I interpret that to mean threads about atheism...that belief system. :confused: That's how I took it, too.

i voted "yes" because more often than not, when anyone says "atheist" peoples start making associations to religion in some form or other. Is atheism a religion? Who cares? It is entangled in religious topics and beliefs to such an extent that it has relevance in religious discussion. I agree completely.

[aaron]

There shouldn't be. I'm just trying to insure that
1. Everyone knows what they are voting on
2. This doesn't open the door for flame wars such as "God doesn't exist" as a topic, which would be legal as an atheist topic.

[jmb]

There shouldn't be. I'm just trying to insure that
1. Everyone knows what they are voting on
2. This doesn't open the door for flame wars such as "God doesn't exist" as a topic, which would be legal as an atheist topic.

If an atheist wanted to start such a thread, I woudn't have a problem with it. I don't agree with the topic, but they should have that right. If each member that wants to contribute does so, respectfully state your opinion and then quit arguing it back and forth like children. That's when the flame wars start. jmo

[aaron]

I guess where I'm coming from is the fact that the forum description says, "Discuss your faith here." It doesn't say "discuss your lack of faith here." The issue I'm wanting to clarify is do atheists have faith and, if so, in what?


Well, we kind of already have a thread going for that. We also already are fine with atheists discussing things in this forum. I just want to clarify for the voters what an atheist topic (thread) is so that they know what they are voting on. Like I said, every atheist I've had a discussion with always ends up basically saying prove it. I don't think prove it topics could be conducive to a good debate or discussion here.

[jmb]

Aaron, look at it this way. Nothing is set in stone here. Try it one way; if it doesn't work, try another. :smt102

[BlueDogDemocrat]

It clearly falls under the topic of faith and spirituality, an opposing view to the existence of those ideas perhaps, but nonetheless perfectly on topic.

[aaron]

Aaron, look at it this way. Nothing is set in stone here. Try it one way; if it doesn't work, try another. :smt102

Yeah, I know, my only real concern here is for two things. Proper categorization of the information, and members getting so mad that vigilante groups are formed and new members trolled off the forums.

[TheKing]

and members getting so mad that vigilante groups are formed and new members trolled off the forums.

thats the disadvantage of a constant community moderation system where 'mod points' are given out consistently and constantly.

the slashdot moderation system is much more effective with respect to situations like that.

[fuzzis]

Well, we kind of already have a thread going for that. We also already are fine with atheists discussing things in this forum. I just want to clarify for the voters what an atheist topic (thread) is so that they know what they are voting on. Like I said, every atheist I've had a discussion with always ends up basically saying prove it. I don't think prove it topics could be conducive to a good debate or discussion here.

I think that cuts both ways. It's pretty easy to avoid that situation...and that happens by making a choice to not engage in it.

[HorseWhisperer]

Religion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

Atheism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Compare and contrast... Wikipedia considers opptional debate that Buddhism could be considered a type of atheism.

[rjw]

The question for the MH community is whether or not threads regarding Atheism should be contained in the Religion/Spirituality Forum. Feel free to discuss why you think it should or should not.

This poll will close in 3 days.

I don't think it should be.

Calling atheism a religion is a bit like calling a couch-potato an athlete simply on the grounds that he/she does not participate but watches nevertheless. To me, religion requires two aspects, one is a belief in the supernatural and the other is somekind of pro-active attitude towards the supernatural. Atheism lacks both of these.

Maybe there needs to be a section titled "Theology" or "World Views" where all beliefs can be discussed, argued, debated. Even a section titled "Atheism" would be good - but everybody should be allowed to join in. Perhaps a section titled "Where Worlds Collide"?

Everybody "loves" to argue over these grand themes.



Regards, Roland

[Blasko]

I think it should be. The subheading religion can also mean lack of religion can't it? And atheists can be very spiritual. Just look at Buddhists.

[rjw]

.... And atheists can be very spiritual. Just look at Buddhists.

Yes, I agree with you on that point - if by "spirituality" you mean a sense of awe wrt the universe, a sense of humility with respect to the fact of existence - or something like this. That is, what is meant by "spirituality" as against "religion"?

Maybe, "Religion" and "Spirituality" need to be seperated?


Regards, Roland

[Blasko]

Yes, I agree with you on that point - if by "spirituality" you mean a sense of awe wrt the universe, a sense of humility with respect to the fact of existence - or something like this. That too, but I was also thinking of atheists who believe in the supernatural. That is, what is meant by "spirituality" as against "religion"?A personal appreciation of the sublime vs organised doctrine of appreciating the sublime?

[threekidspa]

I voted for it. Mostly because I think "religion" really is about belief, as opposed to rules and regulations, and in that light, atheism is statment of a person's belief (or lack of it).

[FloridaTransplant]

Really... What much is there to discuss about being lacking a belief in a supreme being? I don't have anything to preach or sell, so why would I make a thread about it?

[jessi_s]

I think they should be allowed, but then again if it's too touchy of a subject for some then maybe not. I like the religious debate's and I like to argue (in a polite way as to offend no one else's beliefs) about what I believe is to be right and true. I have my beliefs and I have my opinions, but so doesn't everyone else... People should be allowed to express what it is they believe even if it's not exactly the same as what everyone else believes or what the majority believes... religion is religion... Christianity is different... There are many religions, but only one Christianity...

Shouldn't we try to understand what it is others believe anyways? I mean how can we try to explain what it is we believe if we know absolutely nothing of other religions??

[bpitt]

I just want to make sure there are no hanging chads. I voted to allow it, though.

[jessi_s]

It's still a belief... a belief to not believe in God...

[jkspatty]

If you don't believe what's to discuss?

[Wiccan_Child]

I think the threads on Atheism should be included in the religion/spirituality forum because it is a stance defined by religion/spirituality. While atheists, by definition, lack belief in any theological or spiritual statement, the term itself is still defined in terms of religion and spirituality.
To extend the well-known metaphor, baldness is not a hair colour, but it is certainly defined in terms of hair (or lack thereof). Likewise, atheism is not a religion, but it is defined in terms of religion.

First post, btw. Woo! :clap:

[dollfus46]

I think the threads on Atheism should be included in the religion/spirituality forum because it is a stance defined by religion/spirituality. While atheists, by definition, lack belief in any theological or spiritual statement, the term itself is still defined in terms of religion and spirituality.
To extend the well-known metaphor, baldness is not a hair colour, but it is certainly defined in terms of hair (or lack thereof). Likewise, atheism is not a religion, but it is defined in terms of religion.

First post, btw. Woo! :clap:

Like celibacy is sex. Like conservatives are really liberals. Somehow, I can see how you would think that way.:smt118 Congratulations on your first post. It's fun. Jump in.

[Wiccan_Child]

Like celibacy is sex.
Celibacy is not sex, but it is defined as in terms of sex (or lack thereof). It's a good analogy, I must remember it :smt023

Like conservatives are really liberals.
Ah, but conservativism is not defined in terms of liberalism. Society has set up a false dichotomy between the two, unfortunately.


Somehow, I can see how you would think that way.:smt118 Congratulations on your first post. It's fun. Jump in.
Thanks! :smt023

[timforjesus]

to be honest... atheism is the predominant faith in society if not Christianity... our society is mainly godless and if we want God we want him in the way we want him in... i don't care either way...

[dollfus46]

Celibacy is not sex, but it is defined as in terms of sex (or lack thereof). It's a good analogy, I must remember it :smt023


Ah, but conservativism is not defined in terms of liberalism. Society has set up a false dichotomy between the two, unfortunately.


Thanks! :smt023
Yeah, Conservativism and Liberalism is a bad comparison, but I'm old and was in too much of a hurry to come up with a better one. :-D

[SueScribe]

I voted No. Spirituality and religious beliefs are not necessarily connected, but both have at their core - a Belief in a Higher Power, to most folks in these parts - i.e. God.

I know nothing about atheism beyond that doctrine's rejection of a "higher power", "God", FAITH therein, or spirituality connected thereto.

Argumentative discourse about whether or not God in fact exists seems to me to be counter-productive to the objectives in the Faith/Spirituality/Religion thread. It is more properly addressed in a science thread, or Cosmos Thread . . whatever.

Not here.

[dollfus46]

I voted No. Spirituality and religious beliefs are not necessarily connected, but both have at their core - a Belief in a Higher Power, to most folks in these parts - i.e. God.

I know nothing about atheism beyond that doctrine's rejection of a "higher power", "God", FAITH therein, or spirituality connected thereto.

Argumentative discourse about whether or not God in fact exists seems to me to be counter-productive to the objectives in the Faith/Spirituality/Religion thread. It is more properly addressed in a science thread, or Cosmos Thread . . whatever.

Not here.
I'd like agree. Or disagree as the case may be, but I missed your point. Actually it went over my haid. :laugh:

[ericd]

I'm not sure it matters where atheism threads are included as long as they are included. Since I would think that most threads on atheism would have something to say about religion, this seems like an acceptable place to me.

[Hub a Bubba]

Would you also put "VooDoo" in here. I would think that it would be more "spiritual" than atheism. (I thought atheist didn't believe in anything). I notice that most of the items in this Religon/Spirituality threat are Christian in nature. I have heard the saying before "do not confuse religion and Christianity, they are two different things"http://www.myhattiesburg.com/forums/images/icons/icon4.gif