Religion and Politics

[Kitty]

Despite the "separation of church and state," how interconnected do you think are religion and politics?

On the national level, we are seeing presidential candidate Mitt Romney's Mormon religion being questioned.

Here in the Pine Belt, at least one church has had local candidate political signs available for pickup in the church office.

Religion and politics. What do you think?

[amanda]

IMO, they should stay separate. I don't want to sit in church and have someone elses political belief's "preached" to me. I'm there to hear the word of God, not a political party's belief.

[just-Wynn]

In the future this thread will be titled: "Scientific Views and Politics"

[Hermione]

I'm all for not having politics preached. Of course I belong to a denomination that is 180 degrees from me, at the national level. In fact, our diocesan (state) convention had to pass a resolution rebuking the national church for committing us to a political group many church members deeply oppose.

[bpitt]

They are very connected, in more of a subliminal way than you think. We learn our 'ethics', or 'rights and wrongs' at an early age. Typically, they are tied to our religious upbringing, however deep and involved that may be. MOST religions teach 'level headedness', and how to act and behave. That is thus how politicians respond. You see, most 'bad' politicians aren't very religious, oh, they my go to church, but they don't have the faith and don't follow it. Most good politicians had a good Christian OR other upbringing, and it reflects in the good decisions they make. However, we all sin and thus some good guys make bad mistakes from time to time. Ultimately, how we are to handle day to day life, which is what government does at a certain level, is already instructed to us in our religous documentation, i.e., the Bible. The government that we elect is to only see that that is carried out in such a manner. Do I believe religion played a role in our founding fathers roles? DUHHH, yeah........is it to be 'in your face'? No, free will does exist and is somewhat protected by our governing papers, i.e., the Constitution. Just some ramblings, I'm still thinking on this one......

[KingMaker]

They should be separate as institutions. But, I do believe that as individuals we let (and should) our faith guide us in political choices, as well as any other aspect of our lives.

I am not Mormon, but I don't expect Romney to downplay his faith. I don't agree with a large portion of the Mormon faith. But, I have more respect for Romney because he's not backed down from the media spun controversy.

For this reason he may in fact be my favorite at this point.

Church activities are social by nature, but I do think that a line should be drawn as for supporting individuals. If a Church wants to take a stand on an issue, I don't have a problem with that.

[Kitty]

But, I have more respect for Romney because he's not backed down from the media spun controversy.

For this reason he may in fact be my favorite at this point.

Romney should not be underestimated, IMO.

After all, he was elected governor of Massachusetts, one of the most liberal states in the USA and a state with almost 50% of its population Catholic.

[onlyme]

J
Personally, however, I typically tend to vote for men and women I know fall to their knees to seek Sovereign Wisdom before making decisions that can have far lasting impacts on people.

I tend to favor people who use common sense instead of listening to little voices in their heads a la Pat Robertson.

[Conveyor Belt]

People bring way too much into and out of church that isn't God related. Business and education, politics and social hiearcy, there all part of a church. I'm not sure if it's ever been any different.

I prefer to keep religion and God out of everything that isn't God related. Now some would argue that EVERYTHING is God related. I just don't think I should have to consider religion when alarm clock shopping.

Also, people who put Jesus fish on their business signs... that annoys me to no end. If you're a Christian, are you more likely to frequent a business with the Jesus fish on their sign, or people who claim in commercials to be 'Christians'?

[Monkey]

CB, my grandfather gave me some really good advice one time, and I find that it still holds true. He said, "Beware of people who feel like they have to tell you what good Christians they are because chances are you better watch 'em!" I've found that more than not he's right about this!

I want people to know I'm a Christian but I don't feel like I've got to tell them that I'm a model Christian (because I'm not), or a good Christian or anything like that!

[Monkey]

Daniel was an example of this latter Christian. You have no mention of him telling Darius about his religion or his beliefs, but as they lowered Daniel into the lion's den, Darius said, "the God whom you continually serve will save you."

Jesus said that people who engage in Christian-like behaviors for worldly glory, etc. have already received their reward in full.

I tried to give you a pos rep but it wouldn't let me! Thanks anyway for this comment. :-D

[onlyme]

[quote=TheDoc;249303]Since I didn't mention Pat Robertson, I'd appreciate if you didn't disparge my comment by associating it with him. I would think if anything my posts on this subject are clearly diametrically opposed to anything Pat Robertson espouses.

quote]

Feeling a bit tetchy? Since this threat is about politics and religion and you mentioned people who seek heavenly advice before making any decisions, Pat Robertson was a natural conclusion. Sorry if I stepped on any toes and thanks for the initiation :pantsdown:

[onlyme]

Pat Robertson is a natural conclusion? Did you say natural conclusion?

I suppose that Osama Bin Laden would be a natural conclusion when talking about Islam?

No, but he, too, is a religious zealot who tries to mix religion with politics. You are talking about Christianity and politics, I refer to religion and politics. I suppose the misunderstanding ensues from there.
I don't want ANY religious fanatic in any position of power and people who say that they listen to and act upon what God told them to do are highly suspicious to me.

[SueScribe]

. . . Also, people who put Jesus fish on their business signs... that annoys me to no end. If you're a Christian, are you more likely to frequent a business with the Jesus fish on their sign, or people who claim in commercials to be 'Christians'?

Jesus fish? That is HILARIOUS. Can I use that? Thanks in advance.:clap:

[SueScribe]

CB, my grandfather gave me some really good advice one time, and I find that it still holds true. He said, "Beware of people who feel like they have to tell you what good Christians they are because chances are you better watch 'em!" I've found that more than not he's right about this!

Boy-oh-boy, was he (and you) ever on the money on that one!

I'm dealing with a Wonderful Christian right now - in court. Exhaustive court, intra-inter-state court. But: He'll quote Scripture to you all day long while he shoves the knife in your back. I'm trying to extricate it now, from my back and an aged Alzheimer's patient's back.

Last time he (The Good Shepard) sat in my kitchen, and just before he explained (in Christian-like terms) how he was about to screw me (and my dearly beloved uncle) over, he quoted something about What Solomon Said. I don't recall What he said Solomon Said, because I was too busy trying to resist the urge to reach for the large kitchen knife. The German-made, beautifully rendered Henckels Professional, large French knife. And so, I simply said, "WHAT has Solomon got to do with THIS?!" I got no answer, to speak of. He was too busy keeping an eye on the kitchen knives.

[SueScribe]

Jesus said that people who engage in Christian-like behaviors for worldly glory, etc. have already received their reward in full.

Yeah? Well, I've got a motion pending to set it aside.

[SueScribe]

Personally, however, I typically tend to vote for men and women I know fall to their knees to seek Sovereign Wisdom before making decisions that can have far lasting impacts on people.

And . . what happens if the answer they get comes from somewhere else?

[Monkey]

Boy-oh-boy, was he (and you) ever on the money on that one!

I'm dealing with a Wonderful Christian right now - in court. Exhaustive court, intra-inter-state court. But: He'll quote Scripture to you all day long while he shoves the knife in your back. I'm trying to extricate it now, from my back and an aged Alzheimer's patient's back.

Last time he (The Good Shepard) sat in my kitchen, and just before he explained (in Christian-like terms) how he was about to screw me (and my dearly beloved uncle) over, he quoted something about What Solomon Said. I don't recall What he said Solomon Said, because I was too busy trying to resist the urge to reach for the large kitchen knife. The German-made, beautifully rendered Henckels Professional, large French knife. And so, I simply said, "WHAT has Solomon got to do with THIS?!" I got no answer, to speak of. He was too busy keeping an eye on the kitchen knives.

Yeah, it took me a while to REALLY understand what he was talking about, but it's really true!

[Conveyor Belt]

Jesus fish? That is HILARIOUS. Can I use that? Thanks in advance.:clap:

Isn't that what it is? A Jesus fish?

That's what my wife calls them...

[CUPCAKE]

The first phrase in the First Amendment states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." and is called the establishment clause.

The courts have the responsibility to interpret the U.S. Constitution in specific instances. In their ruling in 1947 of Everson v. Board of Education of Ewing Tp", the U.S. Supreme Court ruled:

"The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever from they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Thomas Jefferson "<ST1:p</ST1:pthe clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State'."

IMO, politics in our churches (i.e., candidates holding rallies in churches, using church membership rosters for mail outs, or using churches for pick-up points for campaign literature) is unconstitutional. This indicates, to me, the appearance of a “church or religion” supporting a particular party or platform, thus tearing down the wall of separation <ST1:pJefferson </ST1:pspoke of….but, I am not a constitutional law expert. <O:p</O:p

[58ford]

Isn't that what it is? A Jesus fish?

That's what my wife calls them...
It's an ichthus.
I am constantly amazed at what is not taught in Sunday schools.

[Conveyor Belt]

It's an ichthus.
I am constantly amazed at what is not taught in Sunday schools.

I must of missed the Jesus fish portion of Sunday school... actually, mormon's aren't into idolatry that much and don't have many, if any, symbols of faith. No crosses, no stars, nothing but art... but they don't pray to it, or use it to identify themselves...

Jesus fish is just so much more fun to say than ichthus... maybe I'll just say ichthus: the Jesus fish... sounds like a cartoon!!!

[SueScribe]

It's an ichthus.
I am constantly amazed at what is not taught in Sunday schools.

An "ichthus"? It sounds like something a fish gets that may or may not be fatal. I used some liquid stuff for Ich one time in my fish tank. Are you sure about this?:smt103

Frankly, I thought the Jesus Fish was a Greek symbol, much like those for "life, death, birth, infinity", like Dr. What's-His-Face used to draw on the chalkboard at the intro to "Ben Casey". Okay, let me explain fully to those not quite in my age range:

"Ben Casey" was a television program, filmed in black & white for the first couple of years, which aired back in the late 50s/early Sixties, I believe, and which starred a fella named . . Vince Edwards!

Vince's character, as Dr. Casey, was a brooding man with a continuous eyebrow, whose white doctor's coat was always unbuttoned at the top couple of buttons (to show that his thick, perfectly coiffed hair was in fact dark in other places, too). Dr. Casey was attended by the perfect foil, Dr. . . Wild Hair (can't remember the character's name), played patiently, straight-faced, by Sam Jaffe, whose Doctor In Control Character was the one who drew the "life, death, birth, infinity" symbols on that chalkboard each and every Friday, until they were seared in the minds of the viewers. For infinity. The Jesus Fish rather reminded me of those. Like: Life, Death, Birth, Infinity, Christianity. See? Nevermind.

*cough*

Okay, then.

[SueScribe]

Then I think it will be readily apparent.

I was afraid you were going to say that.

Perhaps we should move this discussion over to the Current President Of The United States thread?

[CUPCAKE]

Jesus fish? That is HILARIOUS. Can I use that? Thanks in advance.:clap:

We really got off-base on the original thread from religion and politics to Jesus Fish.

The symbol is known among Christians and non-Christians alike as a “Jesus Fish.” It is said that during times of persecution it was much like a secret handshake among believers. One would draw half of the fish in the sand and the other would complete the drawing with the second half, thus identifying themselves to one-another as Christians. It was also used to identify secret meeting places for those who followed Christ.