U.S. Supreme Court rules against school desegregation plans

[jewelms]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/06/28/scotus.race/index.html

Very, very interesting. Are we headed back to segregated schools?

[wilebill]

I think we should get back to the concept of neighborhood schools. Whoever lives in that neighborhood, goes to that school. What could be any simpler?

[dollfus46]

I think we should get back to the concept of neighborhood schools. Whoever lives in that neighborhood, goes to that school. What could be any simpler?
That was the problem 40 years ago. You couldn't maintain the right balance of minorities in the schools. To go back to neighborhood schools would be for the judges to admit they were stupid and just wasted billions of taxpayers' dollars cuz we told 'um that 40 years ago.

[Guru]

Nobody said they were correct to start with, other than themselves and a few misguided souls who had great concern but worded that concern wrongly.
A bare minimum quality education was the goal. I was of sound thinking age and in school when integration came along and ,discussing it then and all these years laters with those of us that were there, few of us can see any benefit from it other than the fact that suddenly one day we all just started going to classes together.
Look at the children that have to ride long miles and hours to participate in sporting events AFTER they have taken a half hour or so to get to the school ground of the school they attend.
This is a direct reflection of human thought; everyone wants to do well but sometimes the words get in the way.

[dollfus46]

Nobody said they were correct to start with, other than themselves and a few misguided souls who had great concern but worded that concern wrongly.
A bare minimum quality education was the goal. I was of sound thinking age and in school when integration came along and ,discussing it then and all these years laters with those of us that were there, few of us can see any benefit from it other than the fact that suddenly one day we all just started going to classes together.
Look at the children that have to ride long miles and hours to participate in sporting events AFTER they have taken a half hour or so to get to the school ground of the school they attend.
This is a direct reflection of human thought; everyone wants to do well but sometimes the words get in the way.
I don't doubt the sincerity of those involved with busing. But sincerity doesn't equate into intelligence. I don't think integration for integration sake was necessarily good. The point, I thought, was to give everyone a chance at a decent education. They chose integration to accomplish that. Maybe they forced it too quickly. Maybe as everyone gained parity in education, that would result in parity in income and then the neighborhoods would become integrated naturally and we wouldn't have had to lose the neighborhood schools. I don't have the answer. Busing is not it though. You can't have neighborhood schools and maintain the balance of minority to majority. One has to bend some.

[Astra]

I think that people who want to desegregate by busing have their hearts in the right place, but it just isn't what we need anymore.

Our education system is kind of screwed up. Kids used to go to school in their own neighborhood, learned whatever was taught, met their high school graduation requirements, and then it was on to college or work or whatever.

Now we have people on one side who want their kid to be able to play with all the scientific equipment NASA can offer in first grade and on the other side we have kids going to schools in bad areas where they can't keep teachers. One side wants opportunities above and beyond, the other really needs to have access to a decent education, period.

The solution Florida tried was creating magnet schools. They picked a nearly all-black school (the neighborhood was in public housing in a very bad part of town) and gave it a big math and science program with a new set of teachers and a big budget for equipment. They bused (nearly all white) kids in from other areas who came for the math and science programs.

It didn't solve a danged thing.

The local kids were almost all in the "normal" or "learning disabled" tracks and had their own teachers, who honestly weren't very good. The bused-in kids were in the "advanced" track and got the better-educated teachers and access to spiffy new specialized classes. All it did was breed even more hate between the local kids and the outsiders, and very few kids actually benefited from it.

I really wish we'd stop even looking at color and just focus on getting every school on the same page instead of getting into this kind of situation where going to another school means a drastically different quality of education.

I just wish there was an easy way to do that :(

[dollfus46]

I think that people who want to desegregate by busing have their hearts in the right place, but it just isn't what we need anymore.

Our education system is kind of screwed up. Kids used to go to school in their own neighborhood, learned whatever was taught, met their high school graduation requirements, and then it was on to college or work or whatever.

Now we have people on one side who want their kid to be able to play with all the scientific equipment NASA can offer in first grade and on the other side we have kids going to schools in bad areas where they can't keep teachers. One side wants opportunities above and beyond, the other really needs to have access to a decent education, period.

The solution Florida tried was creating magnet schools. They picked a nearly all-black school (the neighborhood was in public housing in a very bad part of town) and gave it a big math and science program with a new set of teachers and a big budget for equipment. They bused (nearly all white) kids in from other areas who came for the math and science programs.

It didn't solve a danged thing.

The local kids were almost all in the "normal" or "learning disabled" tracks and had their own teachers, who honestly weren't very good. The bused-in kids were in the "advanced" track and got the better-educated teachers and access to spiffy new specialized classes. All it did was breed even more hate between the local kids and the outsiders, and very few kids actually benefited from it.

I really wish we'd stop even looking at color and just focus on getting every school on the same page instead of getting into this kind of situation where going to another school means a drastically different quality of education.

I just wish there was an easy way to do that :(

Dead on (highlighted in red), Astra. +7. I think hearts were in the right place and the problem was identified correctly. Just the solution to the problem went askew. Why can't we attempt to get parity in each school with 1. Same amount of tax dollars to each school 2. Better still, more money in the poorer schools. Why do schools get less money than others?3. Quality teachers in all schools.
I'm sure that's not the answer. It's too simple. Would have been thought of long ago. I don't have the answer either. Magnet schools aren't working in SC either. Closed one already.

[Astra]

Dead on (highlighted in red), Astra. +7. I think hearts were in the right place and the problem was identified correctly. Just the solution to the problem went askew. Why can't we attempt to get parity in each school with 1. Same amount of tax dollars to each school 2. Better still, more money in the poorer schools. Why do schools get less money than others?3. Quality teachers in all schools.
I'm sure that's not the answer. It's too simple. Would have been thought of long ago. I don't have the answer either. Magnet schools aren't working in SC either. Closed one already.

Because people start crying that redistributing tax money is equal to communism/socialism/whatever. I don't like it either, but it's ridiculous when one school can't afford to have books for all the kids then a school right across town can afford to offer a dozen electives and sports on top of the usual requirements.

There's just no easy answer.

[Lil Ray]

Dead on (highlighted in red), Astra. +7. I think hearts were in the right place and the problem was identified correctly. Just the solution to the problem went askew. Why can't we attempt to get parity in each school with 1. Same amount of tax dollars to each school 2. Better still, more money in the poorer schools. Why do schools get less money than others?3. Quality teachers in all schools.
I'm sure that's not the answer. It's too simple. Would have been thought of long ago. I don't have the answer either. Magnet schools aren't working in SC either. Closed one already.

Maybe simple is the answer though. I would add to that that school districts should require higher standards for their teachers and parents should be involved in their childrens' education and work with the teachers, not against them.

[dollfus46]

Maybe simple is the answer though. I would add to that that school districts should require higher standards for their teachers and parents should be involved in their childrens' education and work with the teachers, not against them.

In a perfect world, Lil Ray. Get involved in your child's school, and you'll fast see why kids don't care. Home life is awful. Parents just want a baby sitter while they work. Makes you just want to walk up and bitch slap some of these parents.
I read in the Greenville News this morning that Greenville City schools don't use color at all in placing children. They use distance traveled, household income, educational needs of the child and number of free lunches given out by each school. "Color" never is considered, therefore, Greenville is unaffected by the Supreme Court ruling, according to our school district.

[rooter]

Hopefully after this us people in Covington County will not have to put up with the crap we have been going through>

[Guru]

Integration isn't the answer...
Busing isn't the answer...
Money and financial backing isn't the answer...
Career students coming up with THE PLAN in their doctorals isn't the answer...
The true answer from my observations is the individual. That person that holds themself accountable for how they apply themself and spends at least a little time thinking of where their future lies.
That old saying "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink" is true in anything you do in life.
If you don't want it, if you prefer the "right now" way, the easy slacker way, if you resist what is being offered you for the punked-out results; you will never succeed.
How many kids do you daily hear express themselves like Grand Master DJ Zipperhead? They don't teach that in school. They don't teach "my baby daddy" in school. The teachers we have, with the overwhelming task they face each day offer the best that is available. They can't drill a hole in a kids head and pour in smarts, they can only offer it.
And as much as I hear people squawl about how the teachers need to do more I have to shake my head. What would be wrong with the kids doing more like reaching up to the plate as it passes and taking a bite of that education that is being offered.
Don't delude yourself, our teachers are doing what they can and if any of them are less than perfect be assured they are dishing out at least a minimum and in my book if you offer me a toe-hold I will OWN you.

[TheKing]

Doesn't matter how good the schools are, where they are bused from or to or what track they are placed on if their parents aren't worth a damn.

The solution to any education problems lies in the home...not at the school.

[CircusRide]

If this were truly a free country, a kid could go to school wherever their parents wanted them to go. You should be able to send your kid to the school of your choice.

[dollfus46]

If this were truly a free country, a kid could go to school wherever their parents wanted them to go. You should be able to send your kid to the school of your choice.
You won't get that past the teachers' union. But the school system is awful. I think we need to do something else drastically different from what we've been doin for the last 50 years.

[fuzzis]

You won't get that past the teachers' union. But the school system is awful. I think we need to do something else drastically different from what we've been doin for the last 50 years.

Actually there are several large school districts that allow open enrollment within the district. Seems to work pretty well for them.

[Guru]

You won't get that past the teachers' union. But the school system is awful. I think we need to do something else drastically different from what we've been doin for the last 50 years.

* Another problem I see is what you stated or I think you were hinting at above and it has to do with the corriculum. In trying to give a good baseline the materials presented kids these days is just a lump of cold squat.
If you have a halfway decent teacher just throw them the book and they will take care of the rest. The downside to that is the fact that there were teachers who were doing little with the book other than using it as a paper-weight.
It's very indicative of everyday life, the old 80/20 rule, the 80% of the good teachers have to suffer for the 20% that need more base supervision.

[Guru]

Dead on (highlighted in red), Astra. +7. I think hearts were in the right place and the problem was identified correctly. Just the solution to the problem went askew. Why can't we attempt to get parity in each school with 1. Same amount of tax dollars to each school 2. Better still, more money in the poorer schools. Why do schools get less money than others?3. Quality teachers in all schools.
I'm sure that's not the answer. It's too simple. Would have been thought of long ago. I don't have the answer either. Magnet schools aren't working in SC either. Closed one already.

* Magnet schools on their base selling point have not worked in New Orleans either. True enough the magnet schools are doing well down there but only with the parents that drive their kids path and those kids that want an education.
I get a pretty good view of this from all sides and I will come back to the point of the kid that can get his or her head out of biological functions and Grand Master Z long enough to ask themselves where they will be when the recess bell rings for the last time.

[Guru]

Actually there are several large school districts that allow open enrollment within the district. Seems to work pretty well for them.

* Yes that would work out ok except for human nature. Up here in cow country you have the whiners and the people that think that one school is getting more than the other. In some cases this is very true. I can't say how true but there is enough of a ruckus in the air even as we speak that I have to say where there is smoke there must be some fire.

[rooter]

Seems our schools in Mississippi could do better with 64 cents out of every tax dollar going to education.

[dollfus46]

Seems our schools in Mississippi could do better with 64 cents out of every tax dollar going to education.
Sounds like you all have the same problem as many states. Too much graft, greed and/or incompetence at the top. No excuse would should be acceptable. That's our problem. We wring our hands and hope while politicians and others take us for a bundle.

[rooter]

How many school districts do you have up there?
Mississippi has 82 counties and 152 school districts. One county has six school districts, one has less than 200 students in it. There should be no reason that we could cut back to at least one per county.
We also have a superintendants association that can`t be audited and they take big kickbacks from school vendors and that is illegal in most states.

[CircusRide]

I think you can file a descrimination lawsuit due to being geographically challenged.

[Kitty]

How many school districts do you have up there?
Mississippi has 82 counties and 152 school districts. One county has six school districts, one has less than 200 students in it. There should be no reason that we could cut back to at least one per county.

I agree there needs to be fewer school districts. Savings resulting from consolidated administrative central offices could be redirected to the classroom for instructional costs.

We also have a superintendants association that can't be audited and they take big kickbacks from school vendors and that is illegal in most states.

An audit-proof association? Kickbacks from school vendors?

Interesting.

This reminds me of Operation Pretense (http://www.usm.edu/pr/prnews/feb03/crockett03.htm), which involved corrupt county supervisors and kickbacks in the 1980s.

[fuzzis]

We also have a superintendants association that can`t be audited and they take big kickbacks from school vendors and that is illegal in most states.

The last time you made a claim that an entity couldn't be audited, you were very wrong. Got some proof for that statement?

[fuzzis]

It seems safe to me to say that some fat could probably be trimmed on the money spent by our state superintendants for "professional development" and travel.

That's entirely different than saying that the association cannot be audited.