double standard... or not...

[timforjesus]

the vibe i'm getting here when society is going down the toilet and someone doesn't like it, they are accused of forcing "their beliefs" down people's throats when in actuality they are forcing the one speaking to adapt to THEIR beliefs by legalizing such things... like abortion... when a christian speaks out about it WE all of a sudden are the antagonists... help me out here am i being stubborn or faithful to stand up for what i believe in or should i bend to public opinion and keep the peace?

[jessi_s]

I know we weren't called to be quiet... it says to tell the world about Jesus. And yes you can tell the world about Jesus without bringing in all the topics of this world, but can you really? I mean who Jesus is is also what He stands for, and what He says about these things. We should be able to stand up and say what we think and what we believe just like the others who disagree with us. Why do we have to become the bad guys when all we are doing is expressing how we feel and what we think. We have that right too, and we shouldn't be afraid to do it because we will be called out on it. Or we will be called hypocrits... I get so tired of hearing that.... but that's another story...

[Bluesman]

duble stnadard

[timforjesus]

i want to express my feelings in love but it is so hard when the world hits you with the baseball bat of their opinions and you are told to shut up because they don't agree with you and they have no logical argument to the statements and the true teachings of Jesus

[timforjesus]

i've always been told that one man with God is always a majority

[jessi_s]

i want to express my feelings in love but it is so hard when the world hits you with the baseball bat of their opinions and you are told to shut up because they don't agree with you and they have no logical argument to the statements and the true teachings of Jesus

Yeah, I know... it is hard, but it's supposed to be... road to heaven is curvy and narrow... it's hard!!! but even if you just reach one who will listen, it's worth it...

[jessi_s]

i've always been told that one man with God is always a majority

very very true!!!

[jessi_s]

Ya can't beat the BIG MAN UPSTAIRS!!!

[jessi_s]

What I've learned, particularly on this site, is that you have just as much right to voice your opinion as any one else - even if your opinion is against the grain. And, believe me there are several on this site who will voice opposition to anything related to Christianity - even a simple question of recommending a church to visit will be ridiculed.

So, my advice to you, is this - state your opinion, back it with faith, confidence, scripture AND the knowledge that the end result is not with you but with God. As Christians, we're just planting the seeds.

yeah, that was a fun thread! but of all the pure answers I got, it was worth it! and you're right, it's up to us to just say what we feel is right, do what we feel we are supposed to do, and then let God handle the rest... we are only vessels for Him to work thru!

[Conveyor Belt]

Doc, I don't know how you could feel alone. If you took a poll of Chrisitan vs. Non on here, I'd bet you you'd come out with the majority Christian.

However, there are all different kinds and flavors of Christians. Hardcore Christians and passive Christians. One group doesn't recognize the other as a whole, although you may find individual members who would include them under the Christian umbrella.

You want alone, look at me and my motley blanket of beliefs. Where else are you going to find that one?

As for the majority of America, I think they hold a Christian view of things, albiet a liberal Christian view.

It just seems that everytime we have this discussion, we get bogged down or railroaded with what the definition of Christian is...

[mac]

Tim, You're obviously referring to the thread "Some teen sex decriminalized in Indiana."

Nobody attacked you for being a Christian. You started ranting and raving about abortion and decency and got way off topic. The more you wrote, the less sense it made. That is frustrating for other people who are trying to read the thread. You were asked politely by several members to keep it on topic, and you became beligerant in response and kept on going in the same direction. The closest thing to opposition you got was someone saying that you have to acknowledge that everyone does not think like you do. We as a society-- whether all or Christians or not-- can not approach problems as if we're all of one mind. It's naive of you to think that everyone else's opinions equal a lack of decency if they're not exactly like yours. You will be much more able to get people to listen to you once you learn to listen to them with respect instead of making yourself out to be some kind of martyr when you find people who disagree with you.

[mac]

Doc, I don't know how you could feel alone. If you took a poll of Chrisitan vs. Non on here, I'd bet you you'd come out with the majority Christian.

However, there are all different kinds and flavors of Christians. Hardcore Christians and passive Christians. One group doesn't recognize the other as a whole, although you may find individual members who would include them under the Christian umbrella.

You want alone, look at me and my motley blanket of beliefs. Where else are you going to find that one?

As for the majority of America, I think they hold a Christian view of things, albiet a liberal Christian view.

It just seems that everytime we have this discussion, we get bogged down or railroaded with what the definition of Christian is...

THANK YOU! I would rep you if I could. It's not about Christian vs. non-Christian. It's about differing opinions. You can't assume someone is not a believer just because they look at something differently.

I just didn't want the other thread to become about abortion, etc. since it wasn't the original topic. Tim is right that you're supposed to look at everything from the perspective of right/wrong-- he's also right, in my opinion, that the issue we were talking about can be boiled down to a lack of morality and decency, but every single thread can't become a rant about the same thing, and just because you don't try to MAKE it become about that doesn't mean you're not being faithful.

[Conveyor Belt]

that the issue we were talking about can be boiled down to a lack of morality and decency,

And there's the issue... Who's morality and decency? The morality of the Hindu, the Muslim or the Christian? What of the morality of the Taoist or the Falun Dafa? Who gets to hold who to what morality?

I think there are universal laws. Don't kill unless threatened to be killed. Don't lie. Don't steal. Don't force someone to do something they don't want to do. Don't mess with kids who haven't been through puberty. In general, keep the peace. Anything on top of that is subject to interpretation, IMO.

[Conveyor Belt]

I only poke at you when you get a bit high and mighty or I'm feeling nasty... just blame it on Satan!

I don't think there's anything wrong with getting a buzz out of people's beliefs. I know Zorro's gotten more than his share out of his questionaire I filled out ages ago...

[LipsofanAngel]

I think it all boils down to respect. I agree that Christians should want to share their beliefs with others.... but in that same sense, others should also be able to share their beliefs with us without us Christians calling them indecent. Isn't that the point of Christianity anyway? To make a CHOICE to follow and believe in Christ and not be told that it's what we SHOULD believe?

And yes, I do think that there is a double standard at times... especially in the media... but hey, just part of it. I can listen to another person's point of view, evaluate it against my own beliefs, and then figure it out from there...

[Conveyor Belt]

I want the right not to be witnessed to... The 1,000,001st time isn't the charm... trust me...

[timforjesus]

but 1,000,002 could be.. you never know...

[Conveyor Belt]

but 1,000,002 could be.. you never know...

yeah, I do... just like I'm sure you know that if I tried to convert you to my blend of Taoist/Falun Dafa/Pagaism, the 1,000,003 time wouldn't win you over, either... not that I'd ever even attempt to do that... you gotta believe in whatever feels right to you.

[timforjesus]

true...

[aaron]

Tim, I would follow some of mac's advice in that you really need to try to stay on-topic in a thread. If you would like to talk about abortion, by all means, please start a thread about it. Your free to start threads about anything you would like to within our posting guidelines. The thing is, when someone starts a thread on one topic, and you take it the discussion in a completely different direction, that's not really being courteous to the original poster. They wanted to talk about that topic, and they created one to do so. Just a suggestion that may go a long way towards helping you make friends on this site, and ultimately more people listening to your opinions as a respected member of the community.

[Bluesman]

Tim, I would follow some of mac's advice in that you really need to try to stay on-topic in a thread. If you would like to talk about abortion, by all means, please start a thread about it. Your free to start threads about anything you would like to within our posting guidelines. The thing is, when someone starts a thread on one topic, and you take it the discussion in a completely different direction, that's not really being courteous to the original poster. They wanted to talk about that topic, and they created one to do so. Just a suggestion that may go a long way towards helping you make friends on this site, and ultimately more people listening to your opinions as a respected member of the community.
Aaron I think you just set an excellent example of how people should act towards one another when giving advice/constructive criticism. That was a very nice way to say what you had to say and I do not see how anyone could possibly get their nose out of joint the way you laid it out... Kudos to you my friend for being able to get your point across without starting a riot.

[mac]

Aaron I think you just set an excellent example of how people should act towards one another when giving advice/constructive criticism. That was a very nice way to say what you had to say and I do not see how anyone could possibly get their nose out of joint the way you laid it out... Kudos to you my friend for being able to get your point across without starting a riot.

Not to belittle Aaron or his post in any way, but I would love to point out, Bluesman, that this is not the first time someone has approached him with a softer tone than the one that was used earlier today in the thread where this junk started. When I tried the same thing, two people saw fit to groan me.

Just goes to show that sometimes it doesn't matter WHAT is being said-- it only matters WHO is saying it.

And forgive me for getting off topic. I'm moving on.

[Bluesman]

Not to belittle Aaron or his post in any way, but I would love to point out, Bluesman, that this is not the first time someone has approached him with a softer tone than the one that was used earlier today in the thread where this junk started. When I tried the same thing, two people saw fit to groan me.

Just goes to show that sometimes it doesn't matter WHAT is being said-- it only matters WHO is saying it.

And forgive me for getting off topic. I'm moving on.


I understand your point mac, and I read your post you left him on this thread and it was tasteful and I did not groan/negrep you becuase I thought it was tasteful and respectful and I think that would be childish of me to do when someone is only trying to help. I think that because of the things that were said to Tim on the other thread that perhaps some feathers had been ruffled prior to your post here and therefore it was maybe taken as rubbin salt in the wound for lack of a better way of saying what I'm trying too. When I read the other thread I could see everyone's point of it getting off topic, however being a teacher and dealing with kids and communication and lack there of on a daily basis I how somtimes it does matter WHO says it cause if someone's short hairs are already bristled then it only causes them to stiffen their defenses when confronted. I hope I don't sound to psycho-analytical.

[dasmybaby]

i had done a really good response, and my browser cracked out.

i've known tim for several years. he argues for the sake of arguing. that has NEVER changed. don't take any of it personally.

tim - get back on your ritalin. it'll do you and your church or whatever good. take a tip from your favorite "bald and sexy youth minister." love on people. don't just get in here and go trying to forcefeed your beliefs on people. you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. no matter how hard you try. you have to be tolerant for people to be tolerant of you. you want to win someone over for the good side? stay away from abusive christianity.

[Bluesman]

i had done a really good response, and my browser cracked out.

i've known tim for several years. he argues for the sake of arguing. that has NEVER changed. don't take any of it personally.

tim - get back on your ritalin. it'll do you and your church or whatever good. take a tip from your favorite "bald and sexy youth minister." love on people. don't just get in here and go trying to forcefeed your beliefs on people. you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. no matter how hard you try. you have to be tolerant for people to be tolerant of you. you want to win someone over for the good side? stay away from abusive christianity.
I can feel the love:grouplove::woohoo:

[dasmybaby]

I can feel the love:grouplove::woohoo:

i love tim like a brother. back in high school? not so much. but we understand each other and have a strong weird bond that not a lot of people understand. we fought a lot, and we got past it, and we couldn't be an odder set of friends. but we are friends. and i feel like he will take what i say to heart. because he knows and expects bluntness from me. i did feel concern for tim when he first got on here. i was afraid something like this would happen. he's excited for his cause, and for that i can't fault him. if more people were this devoted to their "religion/faith/denomination" what kind of world would we be in? granted, i'm not so outspoken about mine, and i don't like to get into debates over religion. i believe what i believe because i want to, not because i'm forced to. salvation is one's choice, and no one can make it for them, and i'm ok with that, even though a mormon told me they got baptised for me and i can go to heaven now, or something like that....

[Bluesman]

because he knows and expects bluntness from me.
I would be disappointed if anyone were to expect anything less than bluntness from you or me... jus one of them things

[Michelle]

the vibe i'm getting here when society is going down the toilet and someone doesn't like it, they are accused of forcing "their beliefs" down people's throats when in actuality they are forcing the one speaking to adapt to THEIR beliefs by legalizing such things... like abortion... when a christian speaks out about it WE all of a sudden are the antagonists... help me out here am i being stubborn or faithful to stand up for what i believe in or should i bend to public opinion and keep the peace?

This doesn't exactly make a lot of sense, so correct me if I misunderstood your post. That being said.... No one is forcing you to adapt to his/her beliefs or forcing beliefs down your throat by legalizing abortion. They are giving people a CHOICE. You have a CHOICE not to have an abortion if you believe that it is wrong. If you believe otherwise, then you have a CHOICE to do whatever you believe is right for you. On the other hand, making it illegal would force certain beliefs down throats because those that believe that abortion is okay would not have the option to exercise their belief.

I'm not exactly sure what thread prompted your thread, but I thought this was a little ridiculous and had to respond. And before you decide to bash me for my beliefs.... I got pregnant when I was twenty. I was unmarried and had two years of school left. I CHOSE life and went through a high risk pregnancy (for me and baby), delivered a 10 lb baby by emergency C-section 16 days early, and now have a wonderful 4 year old.

[carsalesguy]

I was unmarried ...... I CHOSE life.................


i told u what to do- dont start acting all bad and stuff

[Conveyor Belt]

On the other hand, making it illegal would force certain beliefs down throats because those that believe that abortion is okay would not have the option to exercise their belief.

Well, if I hold the belief that murder is okay, why is okay for the government to stop me from exercising the choice to kill someone? Afterall, I'm making a choice. The government is forcing their beliefs on me.

[Fish-Bait]

Well, if I hold the belief that murder is okay, why is okay for the government to stop me from exercising the choice to kill someone? Afterall, I'm making a choice. The government is forcing their beliefs on me.

You vote don't cha'....I am pissed at gubment too.

[Michelle]

Well, if I hold the belief that murder is okay, why is okay for the government to stop me from exercising the choice to kill someone? Afterall, I'm making a choice. The government is forcing their beliefs on me.

Do you believe that murder is okay? If not, then the government is not forcing its beliefs on you. It is actually protecting the beliefs of the majority that believe that they have a right to be alive. The government is there to protect the majority. If all of the people that believe in a woman's right to choose also believed in a person's right to murder, then they would elect officials that would allow them to exercise their choice to kill someone.

[timforjesus]

i had done a really good response, and my browser cracked out.

i've known tim for several years. he argues for the sake of arguing. that has NEVER changed. don't take any of it personally.

tim - get back on your ritalin. it'll do you and your church or whatever good. take a tip from your favorite "bald and sexy youth minister." love on people. don't just get in here and go trying to forcefeed your beliefs on people. you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. no matter how hard you try. you have to be tolerant for people to be tolerant of you. you want to win someone over for the good side? stay away from abusive christianity.


das... you know me and you know my nature and i will say this.. i will be the first to say when i'm wrong and if i had a wrong attitude in making a point... i have been guilty of arguing for the sake of arguing... i've been ridiculed for my beliefs and teased and it sucks but a negative response is NEVER the answer... but i tend to get a little ticky when i get ganged up on or see fellow christians get ganged up on and it looks like everybody is trying to do the very thing that they accuse us of.. shoving their beliefs down our throats... in society there is a blatant double standard... everything christian is automatically met with a hostile response and that is our fault for being so ignorant about our faith... if the church started moving in power the martyrs would not be in the papers being publicly slandered... we would be shot in the streets... you know the greek word for witness is the same word as martyr... read the Book of Acts if you don't believe me

yes i should speak things in love and i'm sorry for my arrogance but that is not just a belief that is just plain decency and i did not act accordingly...

as far as forcefeeding that same standard goes for everybody... if we could ALL (including myself) respect each others beliefs but defend and share them at the same time, things would be alot better on here, that does not mean that i'm going to back down and relent from my stance on an otherwise controversial issue (such as abortion) and i would defend it to the death, i will make doubly sure i can back up every single one of my beliefs with scripture and i will not back down... but i do not want to push someone away but i don't want to deliver a candy coated version of my faith either

[timforjesus]

This doesn't exactly make a lot of sense, so correct me if I misunderstood your post. That being said.... No one is forcing you to adapt to his/her beliefs or forcing beliefs down your throat by legalizing abortion. They are giving people a CHOICE. You have a CHOICE not to have an abortion if you believe that it is wrong. If you believe otherwise, then you have a CHOICE to do whatever you believe is right for you. On the other hand, making it illegal would force certain beliefs down throats because those that believe that abortion is okay would not have the option to exercise their belief.

I'm not exactly sure what thread prompted your thread, but I thought this was a little ridiculous and had to respond. And before you decide to bash me for my beliefs.... I got pregnant when I was twenty. I was unmarried and had two years of school left. I CHOSE life and went through a high risk pregnancy (for me and baby), delivered a 10 lb baby by emergency C-section 16 days early, and now have a wonderful 4 year old.

yeah but they're certainly forcing their beliefs down that child's throat.. doesn't really have a say in the matter... that's my stance and i'm sticking to it..

i'm not bashing anyone.. i'm quoting my stance... if i were bashing you i would mention you by name... this is a beliefs forum... spiritual rants, discussion, and overall dialogue are allowed... 1st amendment... if what i say is offensive then i'm sorry but my beliefs nor my right to voice them has not changed nor will it ever

[mac]

These men have come to take you away!

:fed2::fed:

:icon_behe

[mac]

I would like to remind everyone that this was started when someone asked Tim to stay on topic instead of turning the thread into an abortion thread. That's all it was! Instead of joining the discussion we were having, he became outraged that we would deny him the right to talk about religious beliefs, as if that's what we were really trying to do! He got defensive and suddenly we're persecuting him for being a Christian!

[timforjesus]

how about staying on topic mac?

[mac]

I'm on the same topic as everyone else, TIM. You are truly unbelievable!

[timforjesus]

you told me to take my opinion someplace else and i did... mac... i'm not going to let you intimidate me nor am i going to shut up because you don't like me... i took my conversation someplace else and you decided to follow me... accuse me all you like it don't bother me at all...

the topic is about a double standard not just the topic that started the last argument we had... i have no wish to argue with you... i'm sorry if you are offended... my real intention was to cool myself off and let people kinda let me know if i went overboard and that's what we are discussing... i have no intention of causing confrontation with you... but if you wish to forgive and forget seeing as i have apologized for my behavior we can live life and get along and move on with life with the knowledge that we all can be a bit stupid sometimes so that can give us a little patience with those who do the same.. how bout it?... forgive me?

[mac]

... but if you wish to forgive and forget seeing as i have apologized for my behavior we can live life and get along and move on with life with the knowledge that we all can be a bit stupid sometimes so that can give us a little patience with those who do the same.. how bout it?... forgive me?

Sounds like a plan.

I wasn't trying to intimidate you. I just thought you were going a little overboard and jumping to conclusions because I don't think anyone was trying to attack you. Clearly, you felt that we were. I'm sorry.

I've got to drop it now and let it go, because if I keep getting worked up I am going to end up punching a baby in the face or something.

[timforjesus]

Sounds like a plan.

I wasn't trying to intimidate you. I just thought you were going a little overboard and jumping to conclusions because I don't think anyone was trying to attack you. Clearly, you felt that we were. I'm sorry.

I've got to drop it now and let it go, because if I keep getting worked up I am going to end up punching a baby in the face or something.

that's ok.. i kinda get a little worked up when i feel like i am being ganged up on and all... not saying i'm right for doing so, but it happens... kinda like that cornered tiger mentality... you know what i mean?

[Michelle]

yeah but they're certainly forcing their beliefs down that child's throat.. doesn't really have a say in the matter... that's my stance and i'm sticking to it..
i'm not bashing anyone.. i'm quoting my stance... if i were bashing you i would mention you by name... this is a beliefs forum... spiritual rants, discussion, and overall dialogue are allowed... 1st amendment... if what i say is offensive then i'm sorry but my beliefs nor my right to voice them has not changed nor will it ever

my bad.... i wasn't trying to imply that I had been personally offended by anything that you or anyone else had said. That was directed at any future bashings that might result from my post.

Still....Neither society or government is forcing beliefs down anyone's throat. The woman has the choice...so if anyone is forcing anything down a child's throat it is the woman that chooses to terminate her pregnancy