speaking/praying in tongues

[timforjesus]

thought it would be a good topic to discuss since it is a really controversial topic among Christians today...

[timforjesus]

i think it's biblical and that all Christians should do it... it's good for the soul... and they should all desire to prophesy... 1 Corinthians 14

[timforjesus]

yeah... there are some with the baptism of the Holy Spirit that have never spoken in tongues a day in their life.. not saying it's not legit... i kinda like this phrase

Let all things be done decently and in order, remember it says let all things be done.
-Rodney Howard Browne

[TheKing]

i think its stupid

might as well handle snakes while youre at it

[Bluesman]

Tim,
I love ya brother, but I ain't touchin this one. To each his own... If the spirit leads you to do it then do it... If it don't then don't... I think a lot of those that I have witnessed doin this "speaking" in tongues thing were not sincere and were putting on a show...

Now that is all I got to say on that...

[Fish-Bait]

Makes me think of Strichnineand stuff. I get the jitters.

[jessi_s]

i think it's biblical and that all Christians should do it... it's good for the soul... and they should all desire to prophesy... 1 Corinthians 14

Speaking in tongues is a gift, it's not something that EVERY Christian will be able to do. It's not like you practice at it and get better, either you can and have been given the gift to speak in tongues or you haven't.
Other gifts are evangelising, ministering, serving, etc.

[timforjesus]

i think we should all pray in tongues.. speaking in tongues is completely different... that is totally lead of the spirit and there has to be an interpretation.. i'm strictly by the book when it comes to this... this is biblical and still in practice today.. there are those who seriously take it overboard... i started this to help those who may have questions and doubts about it... don't be afraid to ask questions and offer opinions...

1 Cornithians 14:5 and 18 is good scripture for this particular topic

[Hermione]

FYI there are plenty of Catholics and Episcopalians who pray in tongues. Whether we should all do it is another matter. Many years ago the late Catherine Marshall wrote a wonderful book on this topic. While she believed in this manifestation of the Spirit, she herself never received the gift of tongues. I don't think anybody who knows her story would call her a wild-eyed snake handler.

[Fish-Bait]

Sorry, couldn't help it.
WZReCXXlphU

[timforjesus]

i don't do snakes... scripture says to lead us not unto temptation... shouldn't find it ourselves.. Psalm says he would protect us... doesn't mean we should play with them... i have this thing with snakes.. i think those guys who are crazy to mess with them are just plain idiotic... i'm all about prayer and the baptism of the holy spirit and i'm as charismatic as they come.. but when it comes to snakes... i'm walking the other way

[Fish-Bait]

I wonder what Valkhorn would say.

[Fish-Bait]

Is Valkorn member banned?

[fuzzis]

Watched something on television recently about this...I think this article (http://www.slate.com/id/2153947/)articulates what I saw.

[Elle May]

When I was a young girl my mother always believed in going to church, she didn't drive so we walked to church. It didn't matter what demonination the church was, just important that we attend. I'll have to say that of all the different churches that we attended (we moved many times) this frightened the crap out of me then and to this day it still does. I realize that there are those that believe in this but I get lost in it, that video was a good example. It doesn't make it wrong for anyone who believes that way but it doesn't make me feel safe and secure in knowing God, I am a quiet and peaceful type.

[Hermione]

That was a fascinating article -- brain science is hugely interesting and important. However, it is based on the incorrect premise that people "praying in the Spirit" believe they are in some way possessed. They believe that they transcend their own language in some way (and there are a bazillion different interpretations of this) but not that they are "possessed."

[fuzzis]

That was a fascinating article -- brain science is hugely interesting and important. However, it is based on the incorrect premise that people "praying in the Spirit" believe they are in some way possessed. They believe that they transcend their own language in some way (and there are a bazillion different interpretations of this) but not that they are "possessed."

Hmmmmmm...then I would imagine that many people who profess to speak in tongues have the incorrect premise as well...as I've often heard it referred to as being "possessed by the Holy Spirit."

[Fish-Bait]

I know what Fish-Bait would say....

bagel.

You left out "Atari"!:laugh:

[big john]

someone help me i thought speaking in tounges meant you could talk to a crowd of people who all speak different languages,and they would all understand what you are saying,wrong huh?

[big john]

ok i just looked it up ,it means you can speak other languages when speaking to someone about the lord,ok,but why would you need to do it,if everyone in the church speaks the same tongue?

[timforjesus]

Jesus! Tim, why are you pushing this kind a stuff. I really do question your intent here. I too believe in speaking in tongues but this is a public forum not a church. And before you slap me, I am not against witnessing anywhere @ anytime, giving that witnessing is done in the right spirit. And I, Bro. don't believe this is being done in the the right spirit. I feel that you are thinking, you are the only one that has the truth and you are the only one that's right. And You are going to prove it....if it hair lips Jesus aren't ya! Not the right spirit!

Which makes me question visiting you House of Prayer. First of all Christians don't go straight to the meat of the word....it's milk for the baby's! and Brother, you are sounding like a tinkling cymbal.

Here read this (http://www.myhattiesburg.com/forums/showpost.php?p=287679&postcount=47)I post earlier today.

i'm not pushin anything please don't get that impression i beg of you.... i don't intend to start any fight... this is a discussion, not a pushing of anything... i'm not trying to persuade anyone to do anything... i just want to have an adult conversation on what i hope is an adult Christian subject... nothing more nothing less... join us if you would like... there is no elitist spirit about this.. and i'm not selling anything... i promise

[timforjesus]

That was a fascinating article -- brain science is hugely interesting and important. However, it is based on the incorrect premise that people "praying in the Spirit" believe they are in some way possessed. They believe that they transcend their own language in some way (and there are a bazillion different interpretations of this) but not that they are "possessed."

the holy spirit never forcibly possesses anyone... that is demonic...

[KingMaker]

You know it's interesting. I believe there is a vast difference between speaking in tongues like the Followers of Christ did on the day of Penacost was much different that some of the "jibberish" that happens in some Churches.

I think Big John hit the nail on the head above.

[timforjesus]

scripture says it's an UNKNOWN tongue... so that no one knows it at all... i am convinced that it's a personal thing... as far as the prayer language is concerned.. my friend gave me the advice that as my spirit is praying that i should pray for the interpretation of the intercession that is going on in my spirit

[carsalesguy]

lalalalalalalala-

how do you know speaking in tongues are real if you don't know what they are saying- you could be in the church yelling like a member of the talliban and people would think you were ok-

IDK- some things are just too weird for this catholic to understand-

[Ande']

I was taught that speaking in tongues was they way big john explained a few posts up. When we moved to this neck of the woods, I met a girl who was a member at an Assembly of God church. I started going to church with her. This church had one woman who stood up and spoke in "tongues" every couple of weeks and then the preacher would "interpret" what she said. It always seemed fake and too put together. She always did it at the same point in the service. I also want to say they were married or somehow related.

[Sir Mickey Mouse]

Ande', I've seen something like that before, too. It's always been something a little "weird" to me, but also something I've never really understood.

[Conveyor Belt]

theDoc, can you define 'Bring Glory to God'? in your eariler post?

I'm glad some of you think this practice is a little off...

[timforjesus]

I think you should sit back, look at your posts, look at the responses you are getting and ask yourself where you see fruit. And that is said in all Christian love...

I think your zeal needs tempering with love and self-control

and all i wanted to do was discuss a topic i knew everybody wouldn't agree on... do you think i want you guys to accept this and do it? no... i am not looking to 'win' anybody or anything... you think i'm some zealot and all of a sudden you are afraid of me... you got me all wrong doc... besides what kind of discussion would it be if it didn't make some people feel uncomfortable?

[timforjesus]

you cool.. like i said before.. what kind of a debate would it be if it WASN'T controversial...

And one more thing Tim sent me a PM asking me to understand he was just wanting to discuss a subject dear to his heart....and me being too sensitive to this subject got a high horse b/c of past experiences. I apologized to Tim and asked his forgiveness. Everyone here has the right to a debate.

So Tim debate on...I step aside. ;)

[timforjesus]

"Why Speak in Tongues?" hummm, deep breath! This is something I really hate to get deep into b/c for me it is MORE important to walk a life of LOVE, which I fail at miserably everyday. This will be the last time I will speak of this.

I just hope you all wont hate me for my beliefs. If you do, so be it.

There was a time that I attended an Apostolic Church where it was all about guilt, condemnation, what you could and could not do, what you should and should not do or God was gonna be mad at you. All about SPEAKING IN TONGUES! Rarely heard about the goodness, love and endless mercies of God. Honestly I was scared of God...b/c no matter how PERFECT I strived to be, I kept right on disappointing him and I just knew he was waiting on me to sin just one more time, so he could take me on out of this world and send me straight to Hell.

Then I meet someone that talked about Gods love and how he loves to take the bad things in your life and turn them into something good. I no longer tend that Apostolic Church but that does not change what I belieive.

So here goes...These are not my own words but exactly what I believe about Speaking in Tongues. Copied from:

http://www.wofm.org/newsletters/SoFN0280.html

"Why Speak in Tongues?"
Speaking with other Tongues is perhaps the most misunderstood gift of the Holy Spirit. Let's look at two common misunderstandings.

First, that the gift of speaking in Tongues has passed away. Now I ask you, where does it say that in the Word of God? Not what your preacher says, not what any denomination says; what does the Word say? I realize that in 1 Corinth. 13:8 it says,"...whether there be tongues, they shall cease...", but before someone proclaims, "ah-ha, see, look at what it says!" Read the whole chapter, read it in context! In 1 Corinth. 12:31 Paul tells us that he is about to show us a more excellent way to the best gifts, he proceeds in 1 Corinth. 13 to tell us that this way is through love. If we read the chapter carefully we'll see clearly that Paul says that prophecy, tongues and knowledge will pass away when "that which is perfect is come." (vs. 10)... for "then, (when the perfect comes) we will see face to face." Paul also said earlier in the same letter, "...so that you come behind in no (spiritual) gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinth. 1:7) It's very plain that the "perfect" spoken of is none other than our Lord Jesus Christ!

He is the Perfect! Indeed, then there will be no need for prophecy, knowledge, or tongues, for then we will see Jesus and talk to Him face to face! Some say that the "perfect" spoken of here is the Bible, the Word of God. Well, God's Word is perfect, praise the Lord! But if this reference is to the Word then knowledge, prophecy, and tongues has already passed away and today's Church is perfect and without any spiritual problems. Ephesians 4:11-12 tells us that the ministry gifts and spiritual gifts are given "for the perfecting of the saints... till we all come in the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect (mature, in the Greek) man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, (vs. 13) No brethren, we have not yet fully attained that goal! Rather as Jesus told the Church at Thyatira in Revelation 2:25, "...that which ye have hold fast till l come. "

Now, let's look at a second common misunderstanding, that is, that Tongues is merely some kind of "ecstatic utterance", as I've heard it called. That Tongues is of no useful purpose. Well, once again, what does the Word say? Paul, addressing himself to this question in 1 Corinth. 14 said, "he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." (vs. 2) So then, speaking in Tongues is speaking directly to God! (the Greek here says, "...speaking divine secrets to God.) Tongues is not for preaching or teaching, it is for prayer! Since when is prayer of any kind not important? But, I can pray just as well in English, one might say. Then why does the Word say in Romans 8:26 and 27, "...that the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings which can not be uttered, (the Greek says, words that can not be uttered in articulate speech) In other words, the Spirit helps us pray by making it possible for us to speak in a language that we have never learned and do not understand, which is Tongues. (1 Corinth. 14:14) So then, praying in Tongues is always in line with what the Spirit wants us to pray. Can you honestly say that you always know how to pray with your understanding? So then the need for Tongues! Paul continues in 1 Corinth. 14 that, "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself..."(vs. 4) edify in the Greek means to be "built up", We say that a battery is being "built up" when we are charging it. The meaning is the same here! We are being spiritually "charged up" in our faith by speaking in Tongues. As Jude verse 20 says, "But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost..." We feed our body and exercise it, we study and feed our mind and use it; so also do we need to build up and exercise our spirit man. Speaking in Tongues accomplishes this. Paul goes on to ask for balance in the use of Tongues; endorsing its use but saying that in the church (an assembly of believers) that prophecy or Tongues with interpretation is better for the group as a whole's edification while Tongues as a private prayer language is better for an individual believer. However, the use of Tongues in group praise is acceptable. Paul tells us in this same chapter of 1 Corith. 14 that he will continue to pray and sing with his understanding and he will pray and sing in Tongues, (vs. 15) He does not say that speaking in Tongues is useless! Far from it! He says, "I want you all to speak in Tongues." (vs. 5, Greek rendering) And, "I thank my God, I speak in Tongues more than ye all." (vs. 1 He spoke in Tongues more than all of the so-called "over zealous" Corinthian Church he was writing to! Paul must have spent a lot of time building up his spirit man by praying in Tongues! He obviously thought that it was important in his life. We can easily see why he said, "Forbid not to speak with tongues." (vs. 39)

Speaking in Tongues is also called the rest of God in the Old Testament scripture that Paul Quotes in 1 Corinth. 14:21. This scripture (Isaiah 28:11, 12) says, "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. " What a telling indictment! We see today that many people choose not to hear about Tongues. Many desire the Baptism in the Holy Spirit but ask, "Can't I receive it without those Tongues?" After all we've seen about the benefits of speaking in Tongues why would one want to reject this free gift from God? One example that I've heard about this attitude is this - can you imagine going out to buy a pair of shoes and asking the salesman, "Can I get a pair with the tongues cut out?" The salesman would reply, "But they wouldn't be complete!" And so it is with the Baptism in the Holy Ghost, the experience wouldn't be complete without Tongues!

ME: and yet there is so much more to the Holy Ghost than speaking in tongues! And thats all I have to say about that.

as far as 1 Cor 13:8 is concerned... it also says that prophecy and knowledge would also pass away as well as tongues... the bible is chock full of prophecy and i haven't stopped gaining knowedge (which is what these kind of discussions are all about) so why single out tongues.. where did it specifically say that it did pass away in scripture or in history... this verse does not do a thing because it said it would.... which is prophecy in itself

The Holy Spirit is FIRE not tongues... tongues are the initial evidence but not the only evidence... i got a story for you guys.. a great preacher named Leonard Ravenhill's dad was a missionary to China and he had not recieved the baptism of the Holy Spirit and he met another great preacher.. can't remember his name but he went on to say that when this man laid his hands on his father he spoke in tongues and the man who laid his hands on him had not spoke in tongues a day in his life... so there are some who do and some who don't... i know plenty of people who have tongues and not fire and that's not the Holy Spirit that's just jibberish and has no power to it at all...

in Acts 2 there were cloven tongues as of fire... which means that there was a different tongue for them all... Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14:18 that he thanked God that he spoke in tongues more than them all. and that tongues are a sign to those who do not believe whether in Christ or the tongues because there are many Christians who don't believe in tongues that have seen it (including myself) and have been affected by the power of the spirit moving that has come to believe... when i recieved the baptism (which is almost always after salvation) i spoke in tongues and didn't realize it!

so bottom line.. the Holy Spirit is not tongues it is Fire from God to equip you for his work on the earth...

[jkspatty]

I wonder if people "speak in tounges" when they are alone, or only when there is an audience? Also why speak jibberish that no one understands? If these indivduals feel the need to "spread the word" or "witness" why not speak so people can understand them? Seems like a pile of nonsense to me.

[timforjesus]

I wonder if people "speak in tounges" when they are alone, or only when there is an audience? Also why speak jibberish that no one understands? If these indivduals feel the need to "spread the word" or "witness" why not speak so people can understand them? Seems like a pile of nonsense to me.

there are tongues in prayer which are always private aka praying in the spirit... and there are tongues that are for the body that ALWAYS need interpretation... i'm not for tongues to be flying out all over the place.... 1 Corinthians 14:40 says to let all things be done decently and in order. But it does say for all things to be done...

[jmb]

i think it's biblical and that all Christians should do it... it's good for the soul... and they should all desire to prophesy... 1 Corinthians 14

i'm not pushin anything please don't get that impression i beg of you.... i don't intend to start any fight... this is a discussion, not a pushing of anything... i'm not trying to persuade anyone to do anything... i just want to have an adult conversation on what i hope is an adult Christian subject... nothing more nothing less... join us if you would like... there is no elitist spirit about this.. and i'm not selling anything... i promise

(bold emphasis mine)

Political and religious discussions are two topics I avoid like the plague because my beliefs are personal and are not up for debate. But these two posts by Tim are confusing to me. First Tim says all Christians should speak in tongue, but then says he's not trying to persuade anyone to do anything. It is my understanding that speaking in tongue is a gift from God that is not given to every single person and not something that we choose to do or not do.

[amanda]

I've been to churches where there were people who "spoke in tongues". Were they really? I don't know - but my first impression was "beware of false prophets".

[timforjesus]

(bold emphasis mine)

Political and religious discussions are two topics I avoid like the plague because my beliefs are personal and are not up for debate. But these two posts by Tim are confusing to me. First Tim says all Christians should speak in tongue, but then says he's not trying to persuade anyone to do anything. It is my understanding that speaking in tongue is a gift from God that is not given to every single person and not something that we choose to do or not do.

please note that i said I THINK... not a demand not a sell... i think alot of things... i think that everyone needs a big screen tv... does that mean that everyone does or that everyone wants to.. absolutely not... as far as tongues are concerned... all Christians have the authority to speak in tongues as well as prophesy according to the Bible... i'm not trying to make tongue talkers out of you guys... i'm offering all my opinion on the subject... we all have ideas and thoughts about what everybody should do and say and all that... i am entitled to my opinions in here am i?

[Conveyor Belt]

i am entitled to my opinions in here am i?

Not if you don't follow the layed out guidlines of the Christian Police...

[timforjesus]

Not if you don't follow the layed out guidlines of the Christian Police...

wait a second... i thought I WAS the Christian Police?:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Conveyor Belt]

wait a second... i thought I WAS the Christian Police?:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


nope, apparently, you're some sort of Chrisitian vigilante. :>

[timforjesus]

oh... thanks for clearing that up...:-D:laugh::-D:-D:laugh:

[Conveyor Belt]

Yeah, apparently I just got dinged by the head of the Christian Thought Police force... LOL!

[timforjesus]

it happens... we're a tough bunch to mess with...:smt118

[timforjesus]

May I remind you Tim that YOU brought up the subject of speaking/praying in tongues. This was not about What is the Holy Ghost, but since you got off topic and brought it up, let me remind you Bro. of what the fruits of the Holy Ghost are. Galatians 5:22-23 (King James Version)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Holy Ghost is Fire? Where does it say THE HOLY GHOST is Fire? Here?

KJV Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, [and with] fire:

I believe FIRE to mean a zeal! A zest for, living obedient to his Word. It is also means purifying. As in purified by the fire. The process of eliminating impurities by fire.

And last did you not read my words and I quote

whoa there... this is a peaceful subject... tongues and the Holy Spirit go hand in hand here so the topic is still focused...

what are you trying to tell me here... i'm confused... i am trying to be as peaceful and as adult as possible... sorry... i'm speaking my opinion on the subject that i started... there is nothing good born out of strife and contention... if i have to place a disclaimer on every "controversial topic" i want to discuss then so be it... yes the Holy Spirit is fire an all consuming fire... tounges are the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit... Fire is the result... tounges is the outward evidence... there are many people that like to mimic things by showing them on the outside without any real change on the inside... aka a whitewashed tomb... kinda like decaffinated coffee... looks like it, tastes like it, smells like it but the only problem there's no anointing... tongues like anything else Christian can be faked.... there's alot of crap out there that you can spot easily but if you aren't watching for the little things you might get swept up in them... But also Tongues can be very authentic like everything else... the way you tell is by knowing and getting deeper in the Word of God and knowing him better and praying for discernment...

i'm trying my best to speak in love and as meekly as i can...

[dollfus46]

Tim,
I love ya brother, but I ain't touchin this one. To each his own... If the spirit leads you to do it then do it... If it don't then don't... I think a lot of those that I have witnessed doin this "speaking" in tongues thing were not sincere and were putting on a show...

Now that is all I got to say on that...

I'm widju. Speaking in tongues and public healings where people faint and all that, is embarrassing to me as a Christian. At that point, I'm outta there. Not trying to hurt anybody's feelings, but that's the way I feel.

[timforjesus]

wow... ok... sorry if i came across that way... as far as the love is concerned i'm trying to make every effort to speak in love and all... i'm kinda surprised with the kind of responses i'm getting... forgive me

[TheKing]

I thought I said speaking in tongues was one of the dumbest things imaginable...

why are yall still discussing this?

[timforjesus]

i don't know why i even bother...i can't even have a simple discussion without having my motives questioned..

[mac]

i don't know why i even bother...i can't even have a simple discussion without having my motives questioned..

Now you see why everyone starts saying "back away, you don't want to go there" when you get onto a religious topic.

It's too hot. If people were capable of having a discussion without attacking each other or taking offense, it would be different. It's not like that though.

[timforjesus]

yeah so true... guess i was naive to believe so huh

[Conveyor Belt]

Keep it up timforjesus. Don't mind all the naysayers out there.

Sorry I made fun of you/Jesus in your intro thread. I was just poking at you!

Anyhow, I think you're a bit fanatical, but we might actually get along in real life! Imagine that... ebony and ivory...

[raina snow]

My mother always told me that religion and politics are 2 things you should never get in a battle over. She was a wise person.

[dollfus46]

Is Valkorn member banned?

I thought he was. He had -14 reps then poof, he was gone.

[dollfus46]

And one more thing Tim sent me a PM asking me to understand he was just wanting to discuss a subject dear to his heart....and me being too sensitive to this subject got a high horse b/c of past experiences. I apologized to Tim and asked his forgiveness. Everyone here has the right to a debate.

So Tim debate on...I step aside. ;)

:clap::clap::clap: Standing 0 for Eye.

[dollfus46]

I've been to churches where there were people who "spoke in tongues". Were they really? I don't know - but my first impression was "beware of false prophets".

My first impression would be to find the nearest exit sign. I found out the youth director at our church, back when I was married, had my son talking in tongues and we left that church. Period. That's a rather personal thing to be doing to an impressionable 16/17 year old kid.

[dollfus46]

I thought I said speaking in tongues was one of the dumbest things imaginable...

why are yall still discussing this?

I musta missed it.

[Mr Bagel]

Bagel, la la la la la la la la mumida, lalalalala, mumida, lalalala, mumida, lalalala, -----ah lalalalalalala, mumida, lalalalalalala, mumida, jerry springer, lalalala, mumida,mumida, lalalalalalaal, hahahahahhahaa, lalalallaa, mummmmmmmmmalalalala.

[Conveyor Belt]

We need a *cough* button...

[Mr Bagel]

We need a *cough* button...

Why?