Warnings could have saved lives at Virginia Tech

[virgo]

A new report (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/30/vtech.investigation/index.html)has come out anout the VT massacre. I'm not sure I agree with all the findings. I agree that students/teachers should have been warned, but the psychopath would have found others to kill. And how realistic is it to lockdown 131 buildings?


(CNN) -- Better information by officials might have saved lives in the Virginia Tech massacre, an investigation into the deadliest school shooting in U.S. history said.

"Warning the students, faculty and staff might have made a difference," the report said. "So the earlier and clearer the warning, the more chance an individual had of surviving."

On April 16, student Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 students and staff before taking his own life. Seventeen others were wounded in the shootings.

The several-hundred-page report was issued late Wednesday by an independent group formed by Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine.

[maxim]

Well, no, you can't lock down 131 (VT) any more than you can lock down 103 (USM). Warning the public might only mean giving them knowledge to call police a bit sooner, to flee at once (if that seems sensible given where they are and where the bad guy is) rather than hesitate, or even lock themselves down if that seems sensible.

Having that knowledge distributed as quickly and as widely as possible couldn't hurt, and may have helped. Giving the public directions in cases like that is hard, because the "right" thing to do will vary depending on where you are, what protection you have, how quickly you can get to better protection or un-ass the area completely, what the assailant is armed with, barriers in your path, &c, &c. Common sense will work as a decision model - if people think a course of action seems best, that is the one to take. They are the ones in their shoes and they are the ones who will have to bear the responsibility for their choices, so they get to decide what course of action to take.

We can give guidelines ahead of time... if this, then your best chance may be that... and hope people read them. And remember them, correctly, under stress. Hopefully we'll never find out.

Another part of the report mentioned that a quicker police response would not likely have saved anyone. VTPD was on-scene in 3 minutes, then took 5 minutes to force the doors. OK, the building was basically a castle - stone walls, no ground floor windows, massive wooden doors. Still, knowing the type of construction their campus environment had, a little more forethought might have given them some kind of forcing tools. Hindsight is, of course, 20/20.

[ComputerDude]

There are probably hundreds of "might" situations that could have helped the situation out.
Like, the kid might not have done this had people paid more attention to his mental instability a few years earlier.

[IGID]

Hindsight is always 20/20 and crap like this doesn't help the families of the deceased. There are a million if's.

[gonefishin]

My previous experience with faculty and students tells me that some may have taken heed of the warnings but the majority would not. There are so many "warnings" put out in this day and time that people have become complacent about them. It's really sad that we live in a world like this. What's going to tick me off about this report is that the media is going to run it into the ground. It doesn't matter how much Virginia Tech's Police Department does to ensure this doesn't happen again, they will be labeled as incompetent.

[eyescene]

I wonder could there not be a devise made for them to wear? in all schools, in all grades, just...something to warn when needed that danger is ahead.

How hard would that be for computer makers to make? Like a beeper! of some sorts

[eyescene]

maybe even colored lights that glow for for different levels of threats?

Yes it is sad we live in this type of world! It is going to get worse. So we better try to find some way....

[CircusRide]

The dude should never have been on campus. Had the judge and law officials done their jobs, the guy would've been in a mental institution somewhere.

[IGID]

I wonder could there not be a devise made for them to wear? in all schools, in all grades, just...something to warn when needed that danger is ahead.

How hard would that be for computer makers to make? Like a beeper! of some sortsThey already make them. It's called a alpha numeric pager. The pager board will type in whatever you want. But then you have the one's that forgot it or let the battery die. Then there's the cost to supply however many students with one. There are a hundred what if's that would have prevented some of this incident and there will be a different hundreds of what if's after the next incident that happens somewhere in the world.

[Maggie-Doodle]

AND as the old saying goes..."IF a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his butt every time he jumped!" Hopefully things have been improved, hopefully everyone will be more aware of their surroundings and hopefully people won't feel silly to report things that seem out of place...hopefully people will make an attempt to care about others and NOT just themselves!

[mac]

"More warning could have saved lives." I've heard this fifty times today. All I have to say is NO SH*T, SHERLOCK! But they didn't know it was the same guy, that it was a student, etc. Someone else said that "sharing of info" on the guy's mental health status would've helped too. HELLO? You can't share that type of information with EVERYONE-- only with the people who are working w/ him directly.

I don't think that there is any need to point the finger at the people who run V TECH. Nobody could have predicted that the guy was going to snap like that.

[Augustus McRae]

It is deeply unfortunate that we have a mindset in this country to "second guess" and say "they shoulda" about everything that happens. It is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS to say that there should have been "more warning" about a raging, self-involved loon who went on this rampage!

I have to admit that I am/was FAR more suprised and concerned and disappointed that no one went into that building - armed and angry - and stopped the guy much earlier in the process.

But I was not there in harm's way, should not second guess, and can only grieve over the tragedy of it all.

We are told that every exception and "least restriction" should be given and made in every public entity - including public higher education - for people with emotional handicaps and psychoses, even severe ones. We are, by law, required to admit them and retain them in such settings and, indeed, offer them accommodations to succeed. That may be perfectly "right" to do, but then how in heaven's name can we then say "....they should have told everyone that he was over the edge..."

[Hermione]

I've worked on several different campuses and attended a couple more. I can't think of ONE where this could have been prevented. Like Fuzzis said, you can't even get kids to go inside when the tornado sirens go off. (And when I worked at USM, we couldn't hear the sirens anyway, but that's another story.) Frankly, I don't want to go around with a pager or a warning device all the time.

[chaz]

The university has been criticized for not giving students and staff proper warning after two students were found dead in West Ambler Johnston dormitory around 7 a.m. the day of the killings. The campus remained open and was not locked down after those bodies were found.
It was almost 9:30 a.m. before Virginia Tech authorities sent an e-mail to students and staff, warning of a shooting on campus and telling the "university community" to be cautious and to report any suspicious activity.

This is the problem. MyHattiesburg knows w/in 2 hours that the Trustmark on Hardy was held up, but the VT campus... "check your inbox." Most incidents like the first one would be all over TV/Radio with some kind of "suspect is considered armed & dangerous" type warning. This is what would be done in almost any other crime.

In an "alerting message," all key facts should be included and distributed as quickly as possible.
Too often, campus crime is "hushed up" to avoid making waves with parents, students, donors, etc. This situtation might not have been avoided, but could have been mitigated.
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[True Believer]

You can't have it both ways:

1. You can't say that his medical history is private and not share it.
2. You can't give people fair warning people that a looney is on the loose.

Common sense is in our country is slowly giving way to political correctness.

[fuzzis]

You can't have it both ways:

1. You can't say that his medical history is private and not share it.
2. You can't give people fair warning people that a looney is on the loose.

Common sense is in our country is slowly giving way to political correctness.

If you're talking specifically about once a person starts shooting and people needed to be warned that *someone* was shooting and dangerous, then yes, you can have it both ways.

My medical records should be private...YOUR medical records should be private. If you're saying that the VT shooter's medical records should have been shared, then you're saying that your own should be shared too.

I'm not willing to hand my privacy over because someone else *might* go crazy and someone else *might* need to be protected.

[Guru]

I don't see any real hard thing to do with the alert wrist bands mentioned but I do see the point about people carrying them. Heck, they give me a thing everytime I go in Buffalo Wild Wings that goes ablaze whenever my big fat hamburger is ready.

As for people knowing about this guy, it was not politically correct at the time for someone to raise the flag.
On that other hand as soon as this happened the student at USM was picked up after a few days and the first thing you heard was the "Friends" saying how it was all so unfair. It sure lit up the MH board but those same friends couldn't see the point. They didn't get shot.

It's just a crazy world for these kids, the suicides, the shootings, the outlook on life. I often wonder about the volume vs. percentage thing; maybe there have always been lit fuses but the population was smaller with the same percentage but we didn't hear or see it that much because the volume wasn't there.

My cousin, who was a teacher at Pearl, told me about laying on top of a girl during the shooting in the school entryway. I thought about that a lot while I was getting the VT news. A little bit more than the mind can process sometimes.