New School Idea "Floating"

[Augustus McRae]

Had an idea "floated" to me last night. Thought all day long about whether it's "do-able" or whether Hattiesburg folks would support it. I don't know the answer to that. I admit to you, I like it. I'd be interested in what you guys think of it.

The idea is the formation of a local school, K-12. The school would be private, not-for-profit, and have a non-denominational spiritual core base. Young people of all races, colors, creeds, religious, and socioeconomic backgrounds would truly be welcome. Tuition would be as affordable as possible and the founders of the school would make a real (not lip service or some lines in an advertisement!) commitment to providing financial aid based on need confidentially presented.

Academic emphasis would be placed on strong writing, reading, communication, problem-solving, and basic technology tool skills. In addition, at all levels, K-12, basic "work" skills and physical activity would be an integral part of the curriculum.

The school would be accredited by the State Department of Education, not MPSA. Students would participate in activites, athletics, music, art, debate, etc., in the Mississippi High School Activities Association network of public and parochial schools.

Each student, grades 9-12 would have a "work" assignment at the school, in enterprises from the school, or in a helping agency in the community. Each student would participate in extracurricular activities. The school day would be longer than usual - probably 7:30 A.M. to about 4:30. Students would be asked to forego employment outside the school unless necessarily helping in a family business.

Prayer will be encouraged but not "prescribed." Dogma of one single denomination will not be taught. Spiritual exploration will be encouraged. The Golden Rule and the "Two Commandments" will be the centerpieces of the spiritual mission of the school.

The school would be administered and managed by qualified, committed founders of the school. Parents would be "parents" of the students there and, hopefully, supporters of the students there. It is a place teachers would love. But it will not be a school that is "run" by teachers and/or parents.

This idea has grown in the minds and hearts of some folks I know out of the desire of their heart to see the young people of this area have something very special they can call "their education" and their upbringing.

I'd be interested in your thoughts....

[RGDoherty]

A non religious private school. Interesting. The last school that would have fallen into that category in Hattiesburg would have been Beeson Academy wouldn't it? I'm sure that would draw a diverse group, but I see nothing wrong with Religious Affiliated Schools (obviously). I think it would spark the interest of several Gus, I do.

[Fish-Bait]

maybe ya'll could get the refurbished ole' H'burg High?

[Guru]

There are schools similar to this in New Orleans.

[Augustus McRae]

A non religious private school. Interesting. The last school that would have fallen into that category in Hattiesburg would have been Beeson Academy wouldn't it? I'm sure that would draw a diverse group, but I see nothing wrong with Religious Affiliated Schools (obviously). I think it would spark the interest of several Gus, I do.

Thanks for responding. Great thoughts. Let me clarify a point or two. Again, it would have a strong spiritual base, but no denominational dogma or doctrine. Secondly, Beeson Academy was formed to avoid desegregation. This school would be anything but that.

Let me say, also, that the desire of these folks to do this is NOT in objection to PCS or Sacred Heart.

[Augustus McRae]

Gus, is there a prototype already in existence somewhere else? What kind of success have they had? I think the discussion would be very interesting and that some parents may be looking for alternatives.


Yes, there are prototypes. It would take an exceptional kind of commitment to make it work. As indicated already, there are a couple of schools like this in New Orleans. BUT..they have a much larger population base to draw on.

[countrygirl]

If a private school COULD BE ACCREDITED by the State Department of Education, wouldn't they have to abide by all of the same guidelines that publice schools face? Would they face the same ratings and testing programs that public schools embrace? Would there be entrance requirements? What about special needs children? ....Just lots of questions here. I do think that are at least two religious private schools here that do accept and embrace children of all races...From experience, I feel that at least one of them provides what I feel is a better education that public schools, but they do not have to abide by state guidelines as far as testing, textbook selection, ect. Would they have to follow state and/or federal guidelines as far as disclipling, suspending, or expelling students that do not follow the rules?

[Scarlett O'Hara]

It all comes back to money. How is it going to be financed? Tuition could go sky high.

[mac]

It's a nice idea that will never work. The realities of what you have to do to be accredited combined with the realities of how much money it takes to run a school won't allow it.

Also, if enough people were dedicated enough to make something like this REALLY work on a K-12 scale, our public schools would be in better shape.

Forgive me if I sound like a pessimist. I have a friend who attempted to start a school almost identical in philosophy to what you just described. It worked nicely for one year, and sank. People liked the idea of having their kids in such a school, but then there were too many people who didn't keep their tuition paid up, didn't do enough work with their kids to keep them caught up, etc. In other words, lots of the same problems that affect public schools.

If you want to make a difference, go volunteer in a public school. More kids go there than anywhere else, and you could really make a difference for them.

[countrygirl]

That was a good post mac. I think it says my rep power is 1, but I'm not sure how to give it to you...

[politically incorrect]

My biggest problem with the idea is involving the State Department of Education. We already know how that group can screw up schools. If you really try to make a go of it, leave the state out of it. I believe you can participate in the MHSAA without having to abide by State Department rules - they are not the same organization.

I went to Beeson Academy/Hattiesburg Prep. It ran into the same problems a lot of private schools eventually do - money. It takes a lot of it to offer the variety of programs you are suggesting. I'm not saying your idea wouldn't work. I just think it would take a whole lot of families being in on the project from the ground floor and willing to put in a lot of cash up front.

Good luck, though. It sounds like a terrific school.:smt023

[SoMissTV]

St. Andrews Episcopal School in Jackson is a member of the MHSAA.

[EricStratton]

St. Andrews Episcopal School in Jackson is a member of the MHSAA.

As are most of the catholic schools in MS....St Patrick's, Sacred Heart, St. Stanislaus, OLA, Natchez Cathedral (Catholic?)......St. Aloyisius(sp?)....and a few more.....

[EricStratton]

I believe you can participate in the MHSAA without having to abide by State Department rules - they are not the same organization.

:smt023

I don't know all the details, PI, but I do know that in order for a private/parochial school to compete in the MHSAA they must meet the same accredidation standards as MS Public Schools.....most Private Schools do not.....most parochial schools do......

[EricStratton]

Looked it up.....

ARTICLE IV – MEMBERSHIP
SECTION A. Individual Members
Secondary schools that do not practice or have a policy of racial discrimination and which are accredited by the State Department of
Education of Mississippi or the Southern Association for Colleges and Schools are eligible for membership in the MHSAA. If a school loses
certification by the accrediting body of the State Department of Education or the Southern Association for Colleges and Schools, it may not
participate in any post season play but can participate in regular season games and tournaments (NOTE: The school will be classified as an
independent and games will not count in division play). Southern Association accreditation applies only to those schools who are not under
the jurisdiction of the State Department of Education’s accreditation system.

[True Believer]

This sounds more like a charter school, AR. Good concept, there is a need. If it's not in objection to the private schools in the area, what's the objection to the public schools....a spiritual base??

[Augustus McRae]

This sounds more like a charter school, AR. Good concept, there is a need. If it's not in objection to the private schools in the area, what's the objection to the public schools....a spiritual base??


This idea is not growing from "objections" to anything, TB, as I hear and understand it. They DO feel they can offer a "spirit" and "concept" that the public schools are limited from doing. The spiritual base is part of it. As they understand the "charter school" concept (which is why they contacted me thinking I would know what had to be done to establish a Charter School in Mississippi, which I only know enough to be dangerous about!), they would have to have cooperation and agreement from public school officials in order to do it. They do not anticipate getting that from either the Hattiesburg or Lamar County Schools.

[Augustus McRae]

My biggest problem with the idea is involving the State Department of Education. We already know how that group can screw up schools. If you really try to make a go of it, leave the state out of it. I believe you can participate in the MHSAA without having to abide by State Department rules - they are not the same organization.

I went to Beeson Academy/Hattiesburg Prep. It ran into the same problems a lot of private schools eventually do - money. It takes a lot of it to offer the variety of programs you are suggesting. I'm not saying your idea wouldn't work. I just think it would take a whole lot of families being in on the project from the ground floor and willing to put in a lot of cash up front.

Good luck, though. It sounds like a terrific school.:smt023

Thank you for your thoughts. Their notion of affiliating with the MHSAA and accreditation by the State Department of Education would be to say "loud and clear" we are here to offer solid education, approved and certified by all entities, and NOT to avoid racial segregation or any other time of exclusion. That's what I hear from them. They have nothing against the MPSA, but just see MHSAA as more inclusive, and that's the message they wish to convey.

These folks are willing to underwrite and are aware of the cost. It will, as you say, take a whole lot of families involved, but primarily it will take a whole lot of families WHO WANT THIS TYPE OF EDUCATION FOR THEIR CHILDREN. As indicated earlier, their idea is to have a school that parents and teachers will take great pride in being a part of, but neither will "run" the school or own it. I listened to that point very carefully and think it's a good one.

Thanks again. I'm going to pass all these thoughts along...believe me!

[Augustus McRae]

If a private school COULD BE ACCREDITED by the State Department of Education, wouldn't they have to abide by all of the same guidelines that publice schools face? Would they face the same ratings and testing programs that public schools embrace? Would there be entrance requirements? What about special needs children? ....Just lots of questions here. I do think that are at least two religious private schools here that do accept and embrace children of all races...From experience, I feel that at least one of them provides what I feel is a better education that public schools, but they do not have to abide by state guidelines as far as testing, textbook selection, ect. Would they have to follow state and/or federal guidelines as far as disclipling, suspending, or expelling students that do not follow the rules?


All good questions, but "logistical" I think. I think what these folks want to know right now is ARE THEIR FAMILIES WHO WANT THIS TYPE OF EDUCATION FOR THEIR CHILD? I asked them the question about special needs children. I can tell you they are committed to serving special needs kids, particularly! They DO NOT object to State guidelines on testing, for example. But I will pass your questions along to them, I assure you.

[Augustus McRae]

[quote=mac;347793]It's a nice idea that will never work. The realities of what you have to do to be accredited combined with the realities of how much money it takes to run a school won't allow it.

Also, if enough people were dedicated enough to make something like this REALLY work on a K-12 scale, our public schools would be in better shape.

Forgive me if I sound like a pessimist. I have a friend who attempted to start a school almost identical in philosophy to what you just described. It worked nicely for one year, and sank. People liked the idea of having their kids in such a school, but then there were too many people who didn't keep their tuition paid up, didn't do enough work with their kids to keep them caught up, etc. In other words, lots of the same problems that affect public schools.


Thank you for your thoughts, and I will pass them along. Let me say, firstly, that these folks are WELL aware of the amount of money required and are prepared to underwrite the operation to sustain it.

You have raised the biggest question in their minds. ARE THERE ENOUGH FAMILIES IN THE AREA WHO WANT THIS TYPE OF EDUCATION FOR THEIR CHILDREN? From my "listening," I think that will be the determining factor in their decision to go forward or not.

The projected tuition rate is well below that of both PCS and Sacred Heart, by the figures shared with me.

But, I understand your pessimism. Also, these folks do not want to "take the place of" the public schools and all involved (that I am aware of) are public school parents who NEVER strayed to the private schools of the area and most of them did not move to Lamar County. These folks HAVE volunteered time, money, and other resources into the public schools over the years. They are not acting in objection to the public schools, but in the realization (or conviction, better stated) of what this kind of school could do for kids.

I'll pass your thoughts along.

[onlyme]

It sounds good but I don't see how a "spiritual non-denominational base" can be achieved. It is in the nature of people to try to "convert" others to their beliefs, subconsciously or otherwise. I also think that the school day would be much too long. Good luck with those plans though. I am curious to see if anything will come out of it.

[Augustus McRae]

It sounds good but I don't see how a "spiritual non-denominational base" can be achieved. It is in the nature of people to try to "convert" others to their beliefs, subconsciously or otherwise. I also think that the school day would be much too long. Good luck with those plans though. I am curious to see if anything will come out of it.


Thanks for your comments! I think "spiritual, non-denominational" is the PERFECT mission, to be honest. No dogma, no doctrine....but the solid teaching, modeling, and practice of things like ethics, the Golden Rule, integrity, honor, honesty, etc....Every effort will be made to "convert" students to those center points of life, but NOT to a single denomination. In fact, one of the people involved feels VERY strongly about Jewish and Muslim families and kids being involved as well as those who embrace Christianity.

The design in the long school day is to make SURE to include a "work and serve" component in the school. It would allow for after school tutoring time, the involvement of EVERY child in extracurricular activities, and work time for students in grades 9-12 for which they would be compensated.

[amanda]

http://www.ardencahillacademy.com/

My oldest had the benefit of the school linked above more than my youngest. I truly wish there was a school to this caliber in the area. Tuition was high - it was New Orleans. Arden Cahill only went to the 8th grade then you would have to go to a different High School (most went to Archbishop Blenk). However, by the 8th grade these kids have 7 - 8 years (if you started pre-Kindergarten it was even more) of Spanish instruction and 1 year of high school French and Algebra. It was a challenging school but so impressive. The kids behaved. You could walk down the hall and it was quite, open a classroom and the kids were just enthralled. From Kindergarten through 8th grade they changed classes every hour. Had a different teacher for every subject. They had the usual classes, Math, English, Reading, then Spanish, Art, Music.

So, yeah, I'd approve of a school of similar nature.

[Augustus McRae]

http://www.ardencahillacademy.com/

My oldest had the benefit of the school linked above more than my youngest. I truly wish there was a school to this caliber in the area. Tuition was high - it was New Orleans. Arden Cahill only went to the 8th grade then you would have to go to a different High School (most went to Archbishop Blenk). However, by the 8th grade these kids have 7 - 8 years (if you started pre-Kindergarten it was even more) of Spanish instruction and 1 year of high school French and Algebra. It was a challenging school but so impressive. The kids behaved. You could walk down the hall and it was quite, open a classroom and the kids were just enthralled. From Kindergarten through 8th grade they changed classes every hour. Had a different teacher for every subject. They had the usual classes, Math, English, Reading, then Spanish, Art, Music.


so, yeah, I'd approve of a school of similar nature.


Thank you for the information. I will pass it along!

[58ford]

I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but what about school vouchers? Have you discussed that or is that kind oe like what this is all about?

[Augustus McRae]

I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but what about school vouchers? Have you discussed that or is that kind oe like what this is all about?



Since I started the thread, I can ASSURE you that the purpose of this thread has NOTHING to do with school vouchers. In my discussions with the folks who are considering this, there was NO mention of school vouchers.

These folks seem to fully expect that the cost of operation of such a school would be in and among: tuition paid by parents who were able, students (grades 9-12) in work assignments, and underwriting from supporters of the school for both school operation and student assistance.

[Fish-Bait]

students (grades 9-12) in work assignments, and underwriting from supporters of the school for both school operation and student assistance.

Kid Nation?....:-D

[Augustus McRae]

Kid Nation?....:-D


Of course, my friend, I know you are joking!

It is the conviction of the folks considering this that "work habits" and "basic work skills" are learned (or not) in the teenage years or earlier. So, they think it appropriate - and important - that students in grades 9-12 have a "job" at the school. Two reasons for that: to develop "work habits and skills" and to help with the expenses of their attendance at the school.

It struck a chord with me, both for the reasons they gave and for a particularly strong feeling I have about something. Work assignments AT and as part of school, keep many of these kids the heck out of the work force at many places where they are learning ANYTHING BUT good work habits!

I think it's a great concept for a high school age student: in the time between 7:30 A.M. and 4:30 P.M. or so, the student experiences good academic teaching/learning, enjoyable and growing extracurricular involvement in sports, music, art, debate, drama, etc; and the student has done an hour or two of REAL work - tutoring younger kids, landscaping, cleaning, operating office machines, computer website information, school-based newspapers or newsletters, or "free enterprise" type things they develop like maybe snowball stands or something; THEN go home be part of a family unit, do a little homework and get a good night's rest!

[countrygirl]

I think you are asking if there would be enough support for a school like this in the area...Since I no longer have school aged children, I don't have a dog in this race, but if I did, I would be skeptical about sending my child WITH THE INFORMATION you have provided. It just sounds too much like some of the better public school districts in the area. Why pay and have to bother transporting your child to and from school when you could move to one of the better districts? I know that the work thing is different, but many kids do work after school. I also know that some people do not want to move to a better district, but I think the ones that are truly interested in education already have their kids in a private school. You want to be accredited by the state. You want to teach morals (by the way, public schools already do that). You want children from all socio-economic levels. It just sounds too much like public school.

[Augustus McRae]

I think you are asking if there would be enough support for a school like this in the area...Since I no longer have school aged children, I don't have a dog in this race, but if I did, I would be skeptical about sending my child WITH THE INFORMATION you have provided. It just sounds too much like some of the better public school districts in the area. Why pay and have to bother transporting your child to and from school when you could move to one of the better districts? I know that the work thing is different, but many kids do work after school. I also know that some people do not want to move to a better district, but I think the ones that are truly interested in education already have their kids in a private school. You want to be accredited by the state. You want to teach morals (by the way, public schools already do that). You want children from all socio-economic levels. It just sounds too much like public school.


Your response is duly noted, and I thank you for responding.

[Oni Zen]

I was actually thinking about this the other day...

What if a group of teachers banded together and formed a private school, focusing on what works in education and cutting out the ridiculous pork that bloats the public school system.

I imagine parents who homeschool are in the best position to pull this off at first. By banding together, they could create a sort of school system.

Keep in mind, in today's day and age, you may not need a physical school buidling. Classes could be held online, which would save an amazing amount of overhead.

I think it's a great idea, but the deck is stacked in public schools' favor.

[countrygirl]

Hmmm... Private schools cannot generally afford to pay teachers and provide the benefits (insurance, retirement, sick leave, ect) that public schools can provide. This means that private schools depend heavilly upon teachers that have retired from the public sector and teachers that are just working for a second income and/or really do not need the higher income or benefits. I'm not sure, but I do think that some of the private schools do use volunteers (college professors, ect) to come in and teach subjects such as Latin.. I just don't think that there are enough teachers in the area that can afford to take the lower income unless you have a whole lot of money to compete with public schools.

[Scarlett O'Hara]

Don't mean to rain on your parade but as I work in a school system please really think about the work you give the kids. All it would take would be one lawsuit (kid getting hurt, kid getting some type of infection from cleaning, overwork, etc.) and the school would be done. This doesn't mean that I don't think you have a good idea, I'm just trying to put facts out there. Of course we'll hope that you'll never have any parents like that but I'm here to tell you that there are tons out there that love to show their true colors in certain situations.

[TamHill]

Just read through the thread, Augustus. If I understand correctly this school would have a different mission from the public school which is now geared to academics and knowledge(read testing) in subject areas. Your school would promote the well-rounded youngster who would fit into the community and have skills that would enable him to succeed no matter what he tried to do. I wonder about those wanting to qualify for college entrance. How would that work? I think this pragmatic approach geared to graduating a responsible citizen has merits. But maybe you shouldn't have to pay for this. Could it not be a charter school?
On another note--a child in my neighborhood had been seen for a few days wandering around and sort of "hanging out". When my husband asked him why he wasn't in school he said he was on suspension. I wonder why he wasn't restricted in some way by his parents for this behavior--or would in-school suspension be better? Actually, it probably doesn't matter. Would this child be allowed in the proposed school?

[mac]

The only things holding this idea back are those pesky little things called facts. They're part of reality. Lots of people have tried this.

The public schools are the way they are because they're required to be that way. Private school that aren't, generally aren't accredited-- or they're insanely expensive.