View Full Version : A look at a U.S. torture technique
aaron
11-01-2007, 09:47 AM
This has been in the news a lot lately (a least on the sites that I read). There's been a lot of discussion about waterboarding and what it does to an individual and the fact that we, the United States, do these kinds of things to individuals in order to get information out of them. Here's a video of the technique, and I couldn't help but think that it's something used by terrorists, not the symbol of freedom, the United States of America.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/?last_story=/opinion/walsh/politics/2007/11/01/bleh/
Conveyor Belt
11-01-2007, 09:51 AM
do it. Hell, I'd talk with it. I'd talk without it. I'd talk at the mention of it.
I keep telling myself I have to not talk before it starts, b/c they're going to do it anyhow, so I might as well just wait and act tough... but I can't STAND not being able to breath and being held underwater. it PISSES me off and scares me. I'd rather burn than be drown.
bpitt
11-01-2007, 09:57 AM
They'll never take me alive, that's my train of thought........
Conveyor Belt
11-01-2007, 09:58 AM
They'll never take me alive, that's my train of thought........
yeah, I'm with you on that one, too... but if I got kidnapped in the middle of my sleep or drugged and kidnapped or something like that... but yeah, I'm going down fighting.
Interrogation techniques bad versus terrorists setting off bombs that kill innocent children, women and men and private properties ...
PROBLEM???????
aaron
11-01-2007, 10:12 AM
Interrogation techniques bad versus terrorists setting off bombs that kill innocent children, women and men and private properties ...
PROBLEM???????
Who's a terrorist?
TheKing
11-01-2007, 10:17 AM
i dont have a problem with waterboarding and hell...general torture...to the right people
my problem is grabbing the wrong people...torturing the shit out of them until they talk...but they have nothing to talk about...then sending them on their way and saying 'oh...sorry'
im all for 'coercive interrogation' in all sorts of forms...but also admit when you screwed up and tried to extract information from the wrong person...and that youve wronged that person...and make it right.
Who's a terrorist?
* What I meant by that is that this is a technique of standard.
Conveyor Belt
11-01-2007, 10:23 AM
I heard holding someone upside down and pouring coca-cola in their nose is a very effective technique that leaves no evidence...
BlueDogDemocrat
11-01-2007, 10:25 AM
everyone says waterboarding (and torture in general) forces people to talk, though it may not neccesarily be truth. They just want the tortue to end.
My question, though, isn't it true we get a whole bunch of accurate information from waterboarding ali sheik mohamawhoever?
If it worked on him, and it doesn't seriously risk his health, I say we keep it.
I don't think anyone here would want to see another human go through any kind of pain at all. Even a bad guy feels pain. And I do understand the point of an innocent getting caught up in the mix.
In the near future I do think there will be more tools of the trade like this used however and that is simply because the bad guys and girls of our world have raised the bar for us, and at their own perile.
I see a crucial time coming and I'm afraid it will be one of those "the end justifies the means" type of things.
Simply speaking from observation it appears we do not have enough reality of positive and negative reinforcement being applied. This is evident with the growing crime rates and the elevation of the severity of several of the now common crimes.
What to do? I'm as confused as all of you. It's one of those dang if you do and dang if you don't scenarios.
Pitifully the same thing that spurs these techniques will spur the general population to accept them alluding to the positive or negative reinforcement environment. When the general population has felt enough frustration and pain at criminal activities the outcry will be for something extroadinary to be done, as distasteful as some of it may be.
TheKing
11-01-2007, 10:59 AM
oh let it be known...waterboarding isnt really torture
fear and pain are two different things
Conveyor Belt
11-01-2007, 11:06 AM
I don't think anyone here would want to see another human go through any kind of pain at all.
You're wrong on that one. There's LOTS of people I'd LOVE to see go through pain. I'd even inflict it myself if given the green light. And I've got a wicked imagination for pain and torture. Just give me the go, and I'm there.
I'd say that there are probably more than a few guys on here who'd have no trouble at all inflicting or witnessing pain on someone who hurt or was planning on hurting their kids or families.
Uhgreed. Just the mention of it in the general populace usually gets you that "Cow looking at a new gate" response. They don't understand and you can't explain it to them. Can't hold it against them, they are simple creatures used to their cable tv and shopping at Walmart.
Remington
11-01-2007, 02:49 PM
I'm all for waterboarding and whatever else is needed to stop innocents from being killed. There are things done to protect this country or in times of war that the average person can't handle. Those in this country has gotten real soft and spoiled.....and not just talking about in regard to torture. Many would go absolutely crazy if they had to suffer the loss of their television or computer.....or God forbid, their AC. It's no surprise that even waterboarding is something that they are too squeamish to support, even if it were to protect lives. And waterboarding, though scary as hell to the one getting it, is not going to damage the waterboardee. Heck, that guy was sort of laughing about it 5 minutes after it was over with. It's a simulation.
rdawg
11-01-2007, 03:02 PM
I support whatever means necessary to get information out of terrorists. These are not just good innocent ppl we are picking off the streets of Kandahar. these are captured enemy combatants caught in the act or with plans. Gitmo has served us well it has kept the terrorists off our soil and mostly kept the left from fighting for the evil doers. those terror "suspects" have no rights guaranteed under the constitution and can be treated that way. Or is that the reason the way they are, did we hurt their self esteem?
selmore
11-01-2007, 10:33 PM
we (the GOP) but not the regular Salon & mother earth news readers have three issues we can win on:
1. wtf do illegals need drivers licenses for?
2. water board the crap out of them.
3. cut spending
TheKing
11-06-2007, 01:06 PM
this is actually a good op/ed piece by olbermann that, although is counter to my argument that waterboarding isnt torture...its still a good op ed piece
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/67043/?
TheCapitalist
11-06-2007, 07:02 PM
Well, link won't come up. However, my understanding is that they put cellophane over you and pour water. What is your definition of torture? I think if it causes no permenant physical or mental damage, have at it. If your definition includes everything uncomfortable, then why bother. Serve them cupcakes til they ask for more tea.
Things happen that are uncomfortable to the general public, just like Army snipers kill people. Not everyone can do it, but thank God some can and will. People with balls will do the dirty work you find uncomfortable, etc.
Extreme example, but makes the point.
Abaddon
11-09-2007, 12:19 PM
...the symbol of freedom, the United States of America..
Do people actually still buy that load of shyte?
Abaddon
11-09-2007, 12:23 PM
I think if it causes no permenant physical or mental damage, have at it.
And just how does one determine what will cause permenant mental damage to an individual?
Of course it's torture. That shouldn't even be questioned by people with have a lick of sense. The real question is: Does it work? If the answer is yes, then I'll chip in on the water bill.
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