Is Lethal Injection Torture?

[fuzzis]

Who would Antonin Scalia torture? (http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/01/02/lethal_injection/index.html)

Next week, when the Supreme Court hears a case challenging the use of lethal injections, we may learn more about the legal limits to state-sanctioned pain.

...Dr. Dennis Geiser, a professor of veterinary medicine at the University of Tennessee, told me that the use of potassium chloride and pancuronium bromide without proper anesthesia would result in an "agonal type of death." "It would be like tying you up to a wall and torturing you. You're wide awake but you can't respond." Geiser, a death penalty supporter, and three other veterinarians have filed a friend-of-the-court brief in the Baze case in which they note that the pain caused by potassium chloride is so severe that its use on conscious animals has been condemned by the American Veterinary Medical Association....

...The Anesthesia Awareness Campaign cites a 2007 study suggesting that there are 26,000 cases a year of conscious paralysis or intraoperative awareness during surgery. That's about one in every 1,000 surgical procedures. Although the group does not take a position for or against lethal injection, opponents of the current protocols argue that if error rates are that high among trained anesthesiologists and medical professionals whose job is to alleviate suffering, then it's extremely unlikely that the hodgepodge of doctors, nurses, paramedics and technicians -- some with little or no training -- employed to kill people will be getting it right often enough to ensure that an execution is not a form of "cruel and unusual" punishment.....

[hendrixfreak70]

The better question is "Who would want a child rapist to live?" I don't think the Supreme Court or the federal government should have a say in it. The state as per the 10th Amendment has the right to determine the legality of the death penalty and its torture question. This is a difficult question really because man should not determine rather man lives or dies. Much like men shouldn't sentence another man to die nor should the criminal who took someone's life be rewarded 3 meals a day.

[Conveyor Belt]

What's wrong with a big ole hunkin' dose of mophine? it's a legal drug, just od them on it.

[fuzzis]

What's wrong with a big ole hunkin' dose of mophine? it's a legal drug, just od them on it.

The top of the second page of the article makes a comparison to what happens when we put animals down...single overdose of penobarbitol.

[virgo]

Lethal injection is torture? What about the torture they inflicted on their victims? I have no sympathy for murderers. I'm sorry, but that is just how I feel.

[fuzzis]

Lethal injection is torture? What about the torture they inflicted on their victims?

I never quite understand that line of thinking. I really don't, but we've been here before.

Like death isn't enough?

[hendrixfreak70]

I never quite understand that line of thinking. I really don't, but we've been here before.

Like death isn't enough?


What is it that you propose exactly?? Are you for the death penalty but a more humane way? is there a more humane way?

I do not have strong opinions on this because quite frankly it doesn't matter, except for when the fed gov oversteps its boundaries.

[virgo]

I never quite understand that line of thinking. I really don't, but we've been here before.

Like death isn't enough?


I guess I just don't think it's fair that if my loved one is killed, the person responsible for it would get to live off my taxpaying money until he/she croaks of old age. It just doesn't seem right. And I think lethal injection is a lot less torturous than some other forms of capital punishment. JMHO.

[fuzzis]

What is it that you propose exactly?? Are you for the death penalty but a more humane way? is there a more humane way?

I do not have strong opinions on this because quite frankly it doesn't matter, except for when the fed gov oversteps its boundaries.

I don't propose anything, and no, I'm not for a more humane death penalty. I'm not for the death penalty at all because we have much deeper, much more profound and systemic problems with it than whether it is torture or not. Until we get those figured out, I don't think anyone should be put to death by the state. I am, though opposed to the death penalty for other reasons as well.

I just don't understand the whole what-about-the-victim bit. What happened to the victim was considered when the person was convicted and then sentenced to death for his or her crime. Just because someone did an heinous thing does not mean that they should die heinously. If what matters is that they are dead, why shouldn't we want to be *better* than the criminal was?

[hendrixfreak70]

I don't propose anything, and no, I'm not for a more humane death penalty. I'm not for the death penalty at all because we have much deeper, much more profound and systemic problems with it than whether it is torture or not. Until we get those figured out, I don't think anyone should be put to death by the state. I am, though opposed to the death penalty for other reasons as well.

I just don't understand the whole what-about-the-victim bit. What happened to the victim was considered when the person was convicted and then sentenced to death for his or her crime. Just because someone did an heinous thing does not mean that they should die heinously. If what matters is that they are dead, why shouldn't we want to be *better* than the criminal was?

I am confused by your posts then. Why can't people be satisfied with the punishment doled out by the law? I know I am usually not. The Department of Justice needs to be revamped alot or abolished. If someone molested and killed a family member of mine then I deem it right to kill back as a form of retribution rather than a form of deterring. Rest assured the dude wouldn't make it to court but that is just cause imma misipi boy.

[fuzzis]

I am confused by your posts then. Why can't people be satisfied with the punishment doled out by the law? I know I am usually not. The Department of Justice needs to be revamped alot or abolished. If someone molested and killed a family member of mine then I deem it right to kill back as a form of retribution rather than a form of deterring. Rest assured the dude wouldn't make it to court but that is just cause imma misipi boy.

I'm confused by your posts too.

So, in addition to the trauma that your family will have suffered because of the molestation/murder, you'd compound it by putting them through your trial, imprisonment, and possible death at the hands of the state. Just so you had the pleasure of carrying out justice yourself?

[dollfus46]

What's wrong with a big ole hunkin' dose of mophine? it's a legal drug, just od them on it.
Give 'um sodium penethol and then just chop of their head.:smt023 I think we are way too sensitive about how the murderer or rapist feels. I believe you can still choose the electric chair, hanging or firing squad in some states and we're concerned about if it's going to hurt?

[hendrixfreak70]

I'm confused by your posts too.

So, in addition to the trauma that your family will have suffered because of the molestation/murder, you'd compound it by putting them through your trial, imprisonment, and possible death at the hands of the state. Just so you had the pleasure of carrying out justice yourself?

Not all people who seek out this type of vigilante justice go to jail. Thus the confusion is ended.

[fuzzis]

Not all people who seek out this type of vigilante justice go to jail. Thus the confusion is ended.

No, it's just increased. You're willing to bet that you'd be one of the few who wouldn't get caught? You'd gamble on putting your family through that additional hell? There's a few words for that kind of thinking.

[58ford]

One word: DRANO

[hendrixfreak70]

Ok literalist, notice the sarcasm in the first post about this whole thing. If it were my son yes in a heartbeat I would make the bastards pay. Anyone else in the family I wouldn't go after the perp. If the word you are thinking is deranged then yes perhaps I am. In my instance I have a wife and a son and if I lost my son then I wouldnt have much of family anyway. I do believe that many parents use this 'irrational' and 'deranged' way of thinking.

[fuzzis]

Ok literalist, notice the sarcasm in the first post about this whole thing. If it were my son yes in a heartbeat I would make the bastards pay. Anyone else in the family I wouldn't go after the perp. If the word you are thinking is deranged then yes perhaps I am. In my instance I have a wife and a son and if I lost my son then I wouldnt have much of family anyway. I do believe that many parents use this 'irrational' and 'deranged' way of thinking.

You may have thought that the sarcasm was clear, but let me remind you that in a written environment, things don't translate well. :smt105 I wasn't thinking of "irrational" or "deranged" but I suppose they work. :smt023

[hendrixfreak70]

You may have thought that the sarcasm was clear, but let me remind you that in a written environment, things don't translate well. :smt105 I wasn't thinking of "irrational" or "deranged" but I suppose they work. :smt023


How about circular!! :laugh: I like that word alot.

[HarleyBarbie]

Is it torture? I agree with Virgo here, can't be any worse than what the condemned's victim suffered. So, my answer is no. Really, who cares? People make concious decisions to kill, rape, whatever and they do it knowing that capital punishment is a possible consequence. Don't want to be tortured, possibly gasping for air while feeling as though you're being suffocated because something went wrong blah blah blah, don't commit the crime that could get ya there. I am so sick and tired of people that want to make it easy on criminals. They deserve nothing less than what their victims received. Other methods pale in comparison to LI when considering the humane vs. cruel and unusual debate. Nothing is going to work as it is intented every single time. Want an effective punishment and derrent that is constitutional? Firing squad...quick=humane. JMO. I'm guessing bullets would cost us, the tax payers, a lot less than all of those damn drugs and no one would be whining about air gasping torture.

[aaron]

We're going to get to a point where some people have little reason not to commit a crime. Cushy prisons, cushy death sentences.

[Remington]

I agree with you Harley. Death sentences aren't handed out to all killings. Those such as manslaughter that are spur of the moment don't get considered for the death sentence. But premeditated means that it was thought out before hand. If one chooses not to commit a murder, then that one doesn't have to worry about the pain of a death sentence. A choice was made to kill and when chooses that route, then they should face the punishment.

[CircusRide]

Only if they have to inject them more than 32 times to make it work.

[58ford]

I don't care about the morality of the issue, I want premeditated killers, child molesters & rapists to be dead, dead, dead.

I reiterate: DRANO

[countrygirl]

I've said it before....sometimes I think that police brutality has its place the way the court systems are today. I think if someone did something to one of mine, I would find a way myself to inflict some "cruel and unusual" punishment if I knew positively who the perpetrator was. If a jury wanted to convict me of that, then so be it. The punishment would be worth it.

[Luvia]

I don't care about the morality of the issue, I want premeditated killers, child molesters & rapists to be dead, dead, dead.

I reiterate: DRANO

I agree.
Wholeheartedly.

[Fish-Bait]

I don't care about the morality of the issue, I want premeditated killers, child molesters & rapists to be dead, dead, dead.

I reiterate: DRANO

Don't hold back now...tell us how you really feel.:-D

[dollfus46]

Don't hold back now...tell us how you really feel.:-D

And to think, he used to be a wall flower.:laugh:

[dollfus46]

Ok literalist, notice the sarcasm in the first post about this whole thing. If it were my son yes in a heartbeat I would make the bastards pay. Anyone else in the family I wouldn't go after the perp. If the word you are thinking is deranged then yes perhaps I am. In my instance I have a wife and a son and if I lost my son then I wouldnt have much of family anyway. I do believe that many parents use this 'irrational' and 'deranged' way of thinking.

Yep. I'd pay the bastard's bail.:smt023

[dollfus46]

Is it torture? I agree with Virgo here, can't be any worse than what the condemned's victim suffered. So, my answer is no. Really, who cares? People make concious decisions to kill, rape, whatever and they do it knowing that capital punishment is a possible consequence. Don't want to be tortured, possibly gasping for air while feeling as though you're being suffocated because something went wrong blah blah blah, don't commit the crime that could get ya there. I am so sick and tired of people that want to make it easy on criminals. They deserve nothing less than what their victims received. Other methods pale in comparison to LI when considering the humane vs. cruel and unusual debate. Nothing is going to work as it is intented every single time. Want an effective punishment and derrent that is constitutional? Firing squad...quick=humane. JMO. I'm guessing bullets would cost us, the tax payers, a lot less than all of those damn drugs and no one would be whining about air gasping torture.
Somehow the word, "torture" connotes inflicting pain over a long period of time. I'd hardly call any of our devices of death, torture. The LONG WALK is more torture than the needle, I think.

[dollfus46]

We're going to get to a point where some people have little reason not to commit a crime. Cushy prisons, cushy death sentences.
I'm not real sure "cushy" is a good adjective for prison. I hear the guys like to play Drop the Soap in the shower.:smt118

[wilebill]

Okay, if the state is not supposed to cause anybody any pain, then I have a huge frickin lawsuit waiting to be filed against the tax people. Is there a lawyer in the house?