Obama `08

[SueScribe]

Excuse me while I kiss the sky!

Oh, YEAH, babe, OH YEAH !!! :clap:

[SueScribe]

I am formally withdrawing from the political discussion arena. The Word says you cannot mix God and mammon. So, I shall henceforth only address myself to my destiny - in Guatemala. Whereever you can find tigers and lions and bears . .

[dollfus46]

I am formally withdrawing from the political discussion arena. The Word says you cannot mix God and mammon. So, I shall henceforth only address myself to my destiny - in Guatemala. Whereever you can find tigers and lions and bears . .
What the hell are you smokin'? I had to look up "mammon". I thought it meant "bullchit". :bowrofl:

[SueScribe]

What the hell are you smokin'? I had to look up "mammon". I thought it meant "bullchit". :bowrofl:

I'm different, Doff. Mammon, of course, being The World. I think that's why the Founding Fathers did that section about Church/State separation, but who am I to say? No one. Absolutely no one.:smt086

[hendrixfreak70]

I am formally withdrawing from the political discussion arena. The Word says you cannot mix God and mammon. So, I shall henceforth only address myself to my destiny - in Guatemala. Whereever you can find tigers and lions and bears . .

....Oh my.

[Conveyor Belt]

back to the one sided debate

[SueScribe]

Back from Guatemala. Two-sides, now.

[dollfus46]

Poor Sue. She's like me. It's balls to the wall one minute and the next it's not. I've grown weary of politics now and unless something comes up that I haven't heard 10 times, I'll just poke fun at both sides if I can get up the interest to comment at all.

[dollfus46]

Rather than start a new thread, I figured this was fine for this discussion. Seems as if Michele Obama has pissed in her post toasties. "This is the first time in my adult life that I've been proud of America." The Obama campaign officials are in high damage control now. I've heard she's an angry, arrogant black Hillary. She's blunt, far left and says exactly what she feels. Not good. Obama needs to stiffle her mouth.

[mybabysmomma]

Dollfus...I was just about to post a thread on that (glad I looked first!). I may not have always agreed with my leaders, but I cannot think of a time in all of my 27 years that I have not been proud to call myself an American. I don't always take pride in who my leaders are, or the decisions they make, but I will NOT be ashamed of who I am. If this is how she feels, we need to take a long hard look at her husband because not too many people would put up with someone that bitter and angry unless they felt the same way, IMHO.

[dollfus46]

Dollfus...I was just about to post a thread on that (glad I looked first!). I may not have always agreed with my leaders, but I cannot think of a time in all of my 27 years that I have not been proud to call myself an American. I don't always take pride in who my leaders are, or the decisions they make, but I will NOT be ashamed of who I am. If this is how she feels, we need to take a long hard look at her husband because not too many people would put up with someone that bitter and angry unless they felt the same way, IMHO.

Maybe she needs to go back to Mother Africa where her true allegiance is. We need to ask Obama why he won't say the Pledge of Allegiance or put his hand over his heart when it's recited. Why is the media dancing around this?:confused:

[jmb]

Rather than start a new thread, I figured this was fine for this discussion. Seems as if Michele Obama has pissed in her post toasties. "This is the first time in my adult life that I've been proud of America." The Obama campaign officials are in high damage control now. I've heard she's an angry, arrogant black Hillary. She's blunt, far left and says exactly what she feels. Not good. Obama needs to stiffle her mouth.
She wasn't quite that blunt. On Monday, the wife of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama told a Wisconsin audience that “For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country, because it feels like hope is making a comeback… not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change."

[fuzzis]

Maybe she needs to go back to Mother Africa where her true allegiance is. We need to ask Obama why he won't say the Pledge of Allegiance or put his hand over his heart when it's recited. Why is the media dancing around this?:confused:

Maybe because he DOES say the Pledge of Allegiance (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp)? :smt105

Good freakin' lord. How many times are we going to have to go around about that one and how many times are you going to keep bringing it up?

From snopes.com:

...CLAIM: Barack Hussein Obama will NOT recite the Pledge of Allegiance nor will he show any reverence for our flag. While others place their hands over their hearts, Obama turns his back to the flag and slouches.


Senator Obama drew some criticism over a photograph that showed him standing without his hand over his heart during the playing of the U.S. national anthem, but the claim that he "will NOT recite the Pledge of Allegiance" is false.

During the Democratic candidates' debate on 15 January 2008, Senator Obama directly refuted the three primary rumors about him that are circulating via e-mail: that he is a Muslim, that he was sworn in to Congress on the Quran, and that he refuses to say the Pledge of Allegiance...

[fuzzis]

She wasn't quite that blunt.

And I don't quite see the Obama campaign in damage control mode. I see a lot of people on the right in a tizzy, but I don't see the Obama campaign panicking.

[jmb]

from http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

On Monday, Obama spokesman Bill Burton released a statement in response to the controversy: “Of course Michelle is proud of her country, which is why she and Barack talk constantly about how their story wouldn't be possible in any other nation on Earth.
“What she meant is that she's really proud at this moment because for the first time in a long time, thousands of Americans who've never participated in politics before are coming out in record numbers to build a grassroots movement for change.”


I check the online major news sources several times daily. This statement was made by Mrs. Obama Monday and the first I heard of it was through Dollfus' post. Guess it's not so earthshattering. :smt102

[dollfus46]

She wasn't quite that blunt.

I see no difference at all. Maybe she'd like Cuba. Here's what Bryan Pena of the Atlanta Braves says after escaping Cuba 8 years ago:


"I didn't have anything in Cuba," said Pena, 26. "Now I'm blessed to be with the Braves and to be in the United States, a country I love. I'm a citizen. I have my family here, my mom, dad and granddad, my two brothers and two sisters. There's nothing else I can ask for."

This boy came here with nothing. Michele has had the privledge of taking advantage of all this great country has to offer and she's taking it for granted. I could spit on her.

[CircusRide]

from http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/


I check the online major news sources several times daily. This statement was made by Mrs. Obama Monday and the first I heard of it was through Dollfus' post. Guess it's not so earthshattering. :smt102

Flip the tv on. It's all over the news right now.
I said in a previous post she's crazy. Everything is about race with her.

[dollfus46]

Maybe because he DOES say the Pledge of Allegiance (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp)? :smt105

Good freakin' lord. How many times are we going to have to go around about that one and how many times are you going to keep bringing it up?

From snopes.com:

I don't recall ever bringing it up, but the snopes I saw said "true." The picture of him with his hands folded in front of him is accurate.

[dollfus46]

Maybe because he DOES say the Pledge of Allegiance (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp)? :smt105

Good freakin' lord. How many times are we going to have to go around about that one and how many times are you going to keep bringing it up?

From snopes.com:
I stand corrected about the "Pledge" but the fact he did not place his hand over his heart during the Anthem was offensive to me, especially for one seeking to be the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces who fight and die for what that flag represents. Everyone else is free to aplaud Obama for it if they choose.

[jmb]

Maybe she needs to go back to Mother Africa where her true allegiance is. We need to ask Obama why he won't say the Pledge of Allegiance or put his hand over his heart when it's recited. Why is the media dancing around this?:confused:
The picture in question was not taken while the Pledge of Allegiance was being recited. It was while the national anthem was being sung. You can see and hear this at this Snopes link (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp#pledge). He does put his hand over his heart during the pledge, as you can also see at that same link.



Sorry, Dollfus, I was working on my post when yours posted.

In that last link I provided, he states "My grandfather taught me when I was 2. During the Pledge of Allegiance, you put your hand over your heart. During the national anthem, you sing."

Whether you agree with it or not, that is why he does what he does.

And just for the record, I'm not applauding anybody.

[CircusRide]

No matter what, Obama cannot escape his relation to this church. I keep waiting for him to say he's no longer a member or give some explanation.

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.
The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

[hendrixfreak70]

It's ok though. He is going to bring 'change'. After reading this the change may very well have a 'third-world' smell to it.

[dollfus46]

The picture in question was not taken while the Pledge of Allegiance was being recited. It was while the national anthem was being sung. You can see and hear this at this Snopes link (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp#pledge). He does put his hand over his heart during the pledge, as you can also see at that same link.



Sorry, Dollfus, I was working on my post when yours posted.

In that last link I provided, he states "My grandfather taught me when I was 2. During the Pledge of Allegiance, you put your hand over your heart. During the national anthem, you sing."

Whether you agree with it or not, that is why he does what he does.

And just for the record, I'm not applauding anybody.
You might not be applauding anybody but You certainly are being combative toward me. I don't give a fat rat's ass what his grandfather said. Which one? The atheist or the Muslim? When the Star Spangled Banner is played we take our hats off and place them over our heart as a salute to that flag. The military salute the flag and as Commander in Chief he damn well should. Otherwise I'm offended.

[dollfus46]

No matter what, Obama cannot escape his relation to this church. I keep waiting for him to say he's no longer a member or give some explanation.

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.
The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.
I saw that but did you find that under The United Church of Christ or Trinity United Church of Christ. Because I find a difference like Trinity is a spin off from the United Church of Christ. Trinity lists a 12 point tenent. I could be wrong. I'll have to go back and look.

[jmb]

You might not be applauding anybody but You certainly are being combative toward me. I don't give a fat rat's ass what his grandfather said. Which one? The atheist or the Muslim? When the Star Spangled Banner is played we take our hats off and place them over our heart as a salute to that flag. The military salute the flag and as Commander in Chief he damn well should. Otherwise I'm offended.

Dollfus, just because I don't agree with what you say doesn't make me combative.

[fuzzis]

NBC is projecting that Obama has won Wisconsin (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23232655/).

[dollfus46]

Dollfus, just because I don't agree with what you say doesn't make me combative.
Certainly not.

[dollfus46]

The picture in question was not taken while the Pledge of Allegiance was being recited. It was while the national anthem was being sung. You can see and hear this at this Snopes link (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp#pledge). He does put his hand over his heart during the pledge, as you can also see at that same link.



Sorry, Dollfus, I was working on my post when yours posted.

In that last link I provided, he states "My grandfather taught me when I was 2. During the Pledge of Allegiance, you put your hand over your heart. During the national anthem, you sing."

Whether you agree with it or not, that is why he does what he does.

And just for the record, I'm not applauding anybody.
I'd be really surprised if anybody remembers anything that happened when they were two. Three is stretching it. So I'm suspicious of his statement even being true. But you believe as you wish. It's a great country where we can do that.:clap:

[dollfus46]

It's ok though. He is going to bring 'change'. After reading this the change may very well have a 'third-world' smell to it.
Doesn't it though? As I said earlier, I'm not pulling for any candidate. I don't care for any of them. I'm not after Obama. What will happen will happen without my help. I take exception to Michele's comment and I personally dislike, what I consider, her racist views. And I take exception to Obama not saluting the flag under whose protection men and women have died in order for him to enjoy the freedoms and opportunities to be where he is. With their attitudes, I doubt they can be the President and First Lady for all the people. I could be wrong.

[virgo]

I'd be really surprised if anybody remembers anything that happened when they were two. Three is stretching it. So I'm suspicious of his statement even being true. But you believe as you wish. It's a great country where we can do that.:clap:

I have been teaching my son to put his hand over his heart during the pledge and the national anthem since he turned two. And I have kept reinforcing this since then (he's now six). When he was three, he knew the words to the pledge of allegiance. I am not saying this is the norm for any 2 or 3-year-old, but that it can happen -- depending on what the child is taught in the home.

(As a side note, my son has attended hearly 100 ML baseball games since he was born and putting his hand over his heart has become a very natural thing for him to do during the national anthem. His teacher also tells me he does this in calss when they do the pledge or sing the anthem).

[mspolitics82]

Good freakin' lord. How many times are we going to have to go around about that one and how many times are you going to keep bringing it up?

In this case, since this is a man who wants to be our commander in chief, I think it is justifiable to "go around about that one" and to "bring it up" as many times as people want to do so. Maybe he does say the pledge and put his hand over his heart at other times......but the question is in my mind WHY IN THE WORLD DOES A MAN WHO WANTS TO BE PRESIDENT NOT TO THIS EVERY TIME.....EVERY TIME ! THERE IS NO EXCUSE, NONE WHATSOEVER, ZILCH, NADA ! There is no acceptable reason to NOT do so! Surely he knew this was going to be a problem....he is a smart guy.....and surely he just did not FORGET to do it.

Now...just like liberalism, conservativism, and every other "ism", I believe there are different degrees of patriotism. And I believe NOT PARTICIPATING IN THE PLEDGE THAT DAY AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME was a personal, deliberate choice of Barak Obama for some reason...one that to many of us VERY patriotic Americans will NEVER be justifiable nor acceptable.

[fuzzis]

In this case, since this is a man who wants to be our commander in chief, I think it is justifiable to "go around about that one" and to "bring it up" as many times as people want to do so. Maybe he does say the pledge and put his hand over his heart at other times......but the question is in my mind WHY IN THE WORLD DOES A MAN WHO WANTS TO BE PRESIDENT NOT TO THIS EVERY TIME.....EVERY TIME ! THERE IS NO EXCUSE, NONE WHATSOEVER, ZILCH, NADA ! There is no acceptable reason to NOT do so! Surely he knew this was going to be a problem....he is a smart guy.....and surely he just did not FORGET to do it.

Now...just like liberalism, conservativism, and every other "ism", I believe there are different degrees of patriotism. And I believe NOT PARTICIPATING IN THE PLEDGE THAT DAY AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME was a personal, deliberate choice of Barak Obama for some reason...one that to many of us VERY patriotic Americans will NEVER be justifiable nor acceptable.

If you're going to go around and bring it up, then get it right. It WAS NOT THE PLEDGE....which is my objection.

If you're going to bitch about something the man has done, then make sure you're bitching about the right thing....or you make yourself look like a petty, grasping harridan.

[dollfus46]

I have been teaching my son to put his hand over his heart during the pledge and the national anthem since he turned two. And I have kept reinforcing this since then (he's now six). When he was three, he knew the words to the pledge of allegiance. I am not saying this is the norm for any 2 or 3-year-old, but that it can happen -- depending on what the child is taught in the home.

(As a side note, my son has attended hearly 100 ML baseball games since he was born and putting his hand over his heart has become a very natural thing for him to do during the national anthem. His teacher also tells me he does this in calss when they do the pledge or sing the anthem).

Oh sure. Training begins ASAP. But he'll never be able to say, I remember when I was two...............He doesn't. He probably won't remember three. Doesn't mean he's not a functional child. He probably won't remember his dad or grandad taking him fishing at three or anything about Christmas then.

[dollfus46]

I didn't know you were a female mspolitics. I thought that was Mississippi Politics.

[mspolitics82]

I didn't know you were a female mspolitics. I thought that was Mississippi Politics.

Just call me one big, bad "bitching" man. I don't give a rat's behind if it was the pledge or the national anthem....you're only talking a matter of seconds, usually, between the two---it is protocol, tradition, a patriotic act, whatever you want to call it to put your hand over your heart during the pledge and keep it there during the national anthem. Does it make one unpatriotic to "forget" or to take it down during the song? Not necessarily, BUT, why do so? Your objection, IMO, is moot....doesn't matter if it is the pledge or the national anthem...the man messed up and needs to take responsibility for it---he planted the seed for people to question his patriotism. Has he addressed it publicly? Perhaps you can forward me that link, too...if he has! I would like to hear his excuse, oh---uh....reason. Like I told my kids as they were growing up, with EVERY action, there is a consequence. And we must accept the consequences and try to avoid the negative actions in the future.

I guarantee you....if it had been McCain, Romney, or anyone with an "R" by their name, we would be hearing about it, too....not necessarily from the libs, because they really probably don't care too much....but from us "bitching people" who want to make an issue out of something that is "petty", in the words of others.

[dollfus46]

That's what I thought. Fuzzis called you a harridan. A harridan is a woman and since she raked you over the coals about knowing what you were talking about I suggest she take her own advice:
"If you're going to bitch about something the man has done, then make sure you're bitching about the right thing....or you make yourself look like a petty, grasping harridan."

[Bluesman]

I think Mspolitics is a male.

[Bluesman]

But if'n they are not male I hope they do not take offense to me thinking that they were cause all i had to go on was their postings.:smt102

[dollfus46]

from http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/


I check the online major news sources several times daily. This statement was made by Mrs. Obama Monday and the first I heard of it was through Dollfus' post. Guess it's not so earthshattering. :smt102
Do you still stand by your statement? I guess it depends on your definition of "earth shattering". It's on Fox, CNN, MSNBC and all over the internet. I can only guess it's on ABC, NBC and CBS. But I never watch them, so I wouldn't know.

[dollfus46]

And I don't quite see the Obama campaign in damage control mode. I see a lot of people on the right in a tizzy, but I don't see the Obama campaign panicking.
You see a lot of the opposition in a tizzy? Duh. No kidding. The Obama people wouldn't be up in arms over it. I see a lot of Democrats trying to explain what Michele meant, and rewording her speech at that point.:bowrofl: Probably not "panic" mode though. I'd say "concern" mode.

[jmb]

Do you still stand by your statement? I guess it depends on your definition of "earth shattering". It's on Fox, CNN, MSNBC and all over the internet. I can only guess it's on ABC, NBC and CBS. But I never watch them, so I wouldn't know.
Who won Wisconsin yesterday, Obama or Clinton?

[fuzzis]

Do you still stand by your statement? I guess it depends on your definition of "earth shattering". It's on Fox, CNN, MSNBC and all over the internet. I can only guess it's on ABC, NBC and CBS. But I never watch them, so I wouldn't know.

Yeah, it's not all over the internet. :kekeke: Truly...it's another tempest in a teapot. Sorry you're worked in a knot about it.

[dollfus46]

Yeah, it's not all over the internet. :kekeke: Truly...it's another tempest in a teapot. Sorry you're worked in a knot about it.
I'm not in a knot about it. You and jmb seemed to get more in a knot about a rather benign statement I made. I just heard from Fox and MSNBC this morning that it was all over the internet. I can't confirm that but I'll tend take their word for it over yours. It's really a moot point where it is. Michele said it. I understand she's pissed in her post toasties in speeches before that haven't come to light, but may now. May not.

[dollfus46]

Who won Wisconsin yesterday, Obama or Clinton?
Michele's husband.:bowrofl: He won Wisconsin, Hawaii, and was leading in Washington state, last I heard with 57% votes in.

[dollfus46]

Dollfus, just because I don't agree with what you say doesn't make me combative.
I know. And Fuzzis isn't combative either. The words you choose and how they are interpreted are in the ears of the beholder. I made that up.:laugh:

[dollfus46]

If anybody wants to get in my a$$ still, please PM me and I'll be glad to read what you have to say. But I'm weary of this conversation

[jmb]

I know. And Fuzzis isn't combative either. The words you choose and how they are interpreted are in the ears of the beholder. I made that up.:laugh:

Trust me..when I'm combative, you'll know it! :laugh:

If I have said anything to offend you, I'm sorry. I try to be respectful whenever I post. I just finished reading through what I have posted here and I don't recall calling anybody names, talking down to anybody, or really even giving much of an opinion about any this, except where I stated "Guess it's (her statement) not so earthshattering". I responded to what had been posted with facts, not opinions.

I am not a political person. Yes, I vote, but I keep my politics to myself. I'm not terribly thrilled with any of the candidates in this election. Just because I state facts about Senator Obama does not mean I support him. If inaccuracies were posted about Senator Clinton, I would respond in the same manner as I have in this thread.

It doesn't matter to me who anybody votes for. That's their business. And their right.

[Remington]

I think any presidential candidate should place their hand over their heart, but then I think every American should. I'm old fashioned and believe in patriotism. It's hard to believe that it is old fashioned now to believe in placing your hand over your heart.....I really hate the way things have become. I don't think you will catch Obama not doing it now, but I would like to see some films of him a few years ago when he wasn't running for the POTUS and see what he was doing. I think the Snopes argument is weak because the proof they have is that Obama said so and he is placing his hand over his heart now. But did he always do that or just since he's been a presidential candidate? There are a lot of people that are enjoying the fruits of this country yet have no patriotic feelings and consider this a bad country. That doesn't mean they don't want to be in charge of it.

[onlyme]

I don't think you will catch Obama not doing it now, but I would like to see some films of him a few years ago when he wasn't running for the POTUS and see what he was doing. I think the Snopes argument is weak because the proof they have is that Obama said so and he is placing his hand over his heart now. But did he always do that or just since he's been a presidential candidate?

Maybe it's because I am not American by birth and was not brought up to put my hand over my heart for anything but how does a gesture make one more patriotic? A terrorist could put his hand over his heart one minute and blow up a building the next. Unless the person really believes in what he is doing a gesture does not mean anything. It's like folding your hands when praying. It doesn't make my prayer any more/less meaningful because what matters is what I am thinking and nobody can see that.

[fuzzis]

I was thinking about this whole brouhaha in the shower this morning....there have been times that I was teaching, on my prep (off period) when the Pledge was said. If I wasn't where students could see me, I often didn't even stop what I was in the middle of because my time was so short and there were so many things I had to do. There were times that if I was moving through the hallway, when the Pledge was over the PA system that there wasn't a flag anywhere in sight for me to even salute.

I did a lesson with my 7th and 8th graders about what the Pledge actually meant, and I'm pretty sure that I told them that if they weren't feeling what those words were supposed to signify, then they shouldn't say them...the meaning doesn't come from the words--it comes from how you feel about the words. Mindlessly repeating them doesn't do you or the country any good. I did tell them that if they weren't going to participate, then they needed to be respectful...as a teacher, I could not force students to participate or to even stand.

I also know that every time I performed the National Anthem, I didn't put my hand over my heart.

Does that mean I wasn't patriotic? Or is there room for shades of gray?

[mspolitics82]

Maybe it's because I am not American by birth and was not brought up to put my hand over my heart for anything but how does a gesture make one more patriotic? A terrorist could put his hand over his heart one minute and blow up a building the next. Unless the person really believes in what he is doing a gesture does not mean anything. It's like folding your hands when praying. It doesn't make my prayer any more/less meaningful because what matters is what I am thinking and nobody can see that.

Perhaps one who is not American by birth cannot understand....BUT one who is wanting to be President of the U.S. certainly should, and as long as this country is made of mostly native Americans, I believe this will be important to most of us. Sure holding your hand over your heart during the national anthem is not a sign of one's true allegiance.....and surely you can pray without folding your hands, but BOWING YOUR HEAD to pray is something that most people do out of REVERENCE more than anything...can you pray without bowing your head and closing your eyes...sure...but it is just a sign of reverence to do so.

IMO, if you are telling the people of America you want to be their President, then I think you should at least "act like" you respect the "ceremony". It's like I use to tell my kids....you don't have to like it, just do it! Patriotism is a personal character trait, so to speak....but it is also something that is also in the "eyes of the beholder".....when someone sees me praying without bowing my head and closing my eyes, they may think I am being irreverent (although they shouldn't be looking, IMO); likewise, in America, because most of us were brought up that way, if someone does not take their hat off and put their hand over their heart during the pledge and national anthem, it is often perceived as disrespect or a lack of patriotism....it's just one of those American traditions.

I suppose as our "melting pot" becomes more like tossed salad --- everybody wanting to keep their own native traditions instead of "becoming American"----then these American traditions will be less and less understood, appreciated, respected, and practiced.

[onlyme]

However, it is a true shame that any American, native or not, would object to or be indifferent toward it.

I hope you are not insinuating that I am indifferent to the Pledge of Allegiance or the anthem.

[dollfus46]

Maybe it's because I am not American by birth and was not brought up to put my hand over my heart for anything but how does a gesture make one more patriotic? A terrorist could put his hand over his heart one minute and blow up a building the next. Unless the person really believes in what he is doing a gesture does not mean anything. It's like folding your hands when praying. It doesn't make my prayer any more/less meaningful because what matters is what I am thinking and nobody can see that.
Like Louis Armstrong said about Jazz when someone asked him to describe it: If you can't feel it, I can't explain it. Are you American at all? Do you hug those you love? Do you shake hands? Do you wave at people? Gestures, like saluting the flag that gives you so much. Lets not get the U.S. and whatever god you pray to, confused. I fold my hands and bow my head in reverence because the Bible tell me so, when I can. I salute the flag properly. I look people in the eye when I shake their hand and I use a firm grip in respect.

[onlyme]

Are you American at all? Do you hug those you love? Do you shake hands? Do you wave at people?

Yes.Often.Sometimes.Sometimes.
I am anxiously awaiting my test results.

[dollfus46]

Yes.Often.Sometimes.Sometimes.
I am anxiously awaiting my test results.
Why do you feel the need to become a citizen?:confused:

[Conveyor Belt]

I'm getting pretty tired of all this petty pot shot stuff. As soon as someone focuses on Obama's pledge, or say 'he says nothing' I tune them out. I'm about getting to where I can't listen to talk radio anymore because that's all they say. They find this one little thing, and wear it out.

Thing is, people who aren't going to vote for Obama fall all over themselves over tidbits like this. People who are going to vote for him dismiss them as weak arguments against a candidate they fear they are going to lose to.

Frankly, I don't get it. He didn't cross his heart once. Bush said assholes. Clinton said something then said she didn't say it. McCain has a temper. So what? None of these are dealbreakers or conversion points for undecided voters.

I love politics, but this election cycle is starting to jade me.

[dollfus46]

I was thinking about this whole brouhaha in the shower this morning....there have been times that I was teaching, on my prep (off period) when the Pledge was said. If I wasn't where students could see me, I often didn't even stop what I was in the middle of because my time was so short and there were so many things I had to do. There were times that if I was moving through the hallway, when the Pledge was over the PA system that there wasn't a flag anywhere in sight for me to even salute.

I did a lesson with my 7th and 8th graders about what the Pledge actually meant, and I'm pretty sure that I told them that if they weren't feeling what those words were supposed to signify, then they shouldn't say them...the meaning doesn't come from the words--it comes from how you feel about the words. Mindlessly repeating them doesn't do you or the country any good. I did tell them that if they weren't going to participate, then they needed to be respectful...as a teacher, I could not force students to participate or to even stand.

I also know that every time I performed the National Anthem, I didn't put my hand over my heart.

Does that mean I wasn't patriotic? Or is there room for shades of gray?

Means you overstepped your authority as a teacher and tried to indoctrinate my child with your liberal propaganda. You are the teacher I warned him about when he went to school.

[mspolitics82]

They find this one little thing, and wear it out.

Do you mean like "finding no weapons of mass destruction"...which, after at least two years, is still brought up in just about any discussion of the Iraqi fighting.

[mspolitics82]

I hope you are not insinuating that I am indifferent to the Pledge of Allegiance or the anthem.


Certainly not....coz I don't know who you are, so how can I know how you personally feel about the pledge of allegiance or the national anthem.... you have not told us how you feel about them...unless I missed it somewhere.

[Conveyor Belt]

Do you mean like "finding no weapons of mass destruction"...which, after at least two years, is still brought up in just about any discussion of the Iraqi fighting.

Exactly... Bush Lied, all that crap. Completely tired of it. Doesn't make me change my mind.

[dollfus46]

I'm getting pretty tired of all this petty pot shot stuff. As soon as someone focuses on Obama's pledge, or say 'he says nothing' I tune them out. I'm about getting to where I can't listen to talk radio anymore because that's all they say. They find this one little thing, and wear it out.

Thing is, people who aren't going to vote for Obama fall all over themselves over tidbits like this. People who are going to vote for him dismiss them as weak arguments against a candidate they fear they are going to lose to.

Frankly, I don't get it. He didn't cross his heart once. Bush said assholes. Clinton said something then said she didn't say it. McCain has a temper. So what? None of these are dealbreakers or conversion points for undecided voters.

I love politics, but this election cycle is starting to jade me.

That's what campaigns are about. That's why Republicans jump on Michele and why he liberal media is ignoring it. The news media is in Obama's pocket. And yes not saluting the flag is a black ball, a knock out punch for me. Kinky Freidman from Texas called Obama, "that Irish lad." :kekeke: O'Reilly fell out. Said it was Obama, not O'bama. :laugh:

[Conveyor Belt]

That's what campaigns are about. That's why Republicans jump on Michele and why he liberal media is ignoring it. The news media is in Obama's pocket. And yes not saluting the flag is a black ball, a knock out punch for me. Kinky Freidman from Texas called Obama, "that Irish lad." :kekeke: O'Reilly fell out. Said it was Obama, not O'bama. :laugh:

I'm sure if we looked hard enough, we could find a time when McCain didn't salute the flag at an event.

[dollfus46]

I'm sure if we looked hard enough, we could find a time when McCain didn't salute the flag at an event.
I really doubt it. But you have at it. I doubt you'll find Hillary has failed to salute the flag also. You said that like you think I'm a McCain man. I'm a Duncan Hunter man. I'll vote because I think it's my duty and a great privilege to do so. And I'll vote more against the two Dems than for McCain. But I'll take shots at Obama, Hillary and McCain if they do something else dupid. So far Bill and Michele have not helped their spouse. But the "gotcha" ploy has always been a part of campaigns. Actually this has been one of the more civil election campaigning I've seen, so far. It's called negative campaigning, and yes, it gets tiresome. As early as this one started I knew we'd all be about to puke before November

[Echo Four Bravo]

Let me add a "shade of gray" as Fuzzis put it to the anthem/pledge topic. While I was in the Marine Corps, whenever the Anthem was played, whenever the Flag was raised or lowered, even when you walked past a displayed flag, if you did not come to attention and salute it, you would have hell to pay. Another rule was that you do not salute when not wearing a cover (hat).
Now that I'm no longer active duty, I of course do not wear a cover. Consequently, I'm sometimes at a loss as to what to do during the Anthem. Most of the time I put my hand over my heart, but sometimes, the training takes over and I simply stand at attention. I've never been questioned about this at a public function, and wouldn't mind if I was, because I can certainly explain myself.
None of this is to say that I'm ok with Obama's seeming lack of respect for the flag. I'm very particular when it comes to the flag and I get ticked-off when I see it displayed improperly, not cared for etc. I realize that I probably sound like a simplistic red-stater to some here, but I'm not going to apologize for having reverence for and pride in the symbol of my country. I expect the same from whomever wants to lead it.

[dollfus46]

Let me add a "shade of gray" as Fuzzis put it to the anthem/pledge topic. While I was in the Marine Corps, whenever the Anthem was played, whenever the Flag was raised or lowered, even when you walked past a displayed flag, if you did not come to attention and salute it, you would have hell to pay. Another rule was that you do not salute when not wearing a cover (hat).
Now that I'm no longer active duty, I of course do not wear a cover. Consequently, I'm sometimes at a loss as to what to do during the Anthem. Most of the time I put my hand over my heart, but sometimes, the training takes over and I simply stand at attention. I've never been questioned about this at a public function, and wouldn't mind if I was, because I can certainly explain myself.
None of this is to say that I'm ok with Obama's seeming lack of respect for the flag. I'm very particular when it comes to the flag and I get ticked-off when I see it displayed improperly, not cared for etc. I realize that I probably sound like a simplistic red-stater to some here, but I'm not going to apologize for having reverence for and pride in the symbol of my country. I expect the same from whomever wants to lead it.

My kinda guy. AND a BRAVES fan too!! Now if you like dogs, we're running you for President.

[Echo Four Bravo]

My kinda guy. AND a BRAVES fan too!! Now if you like dogs, we're running you for President.
My Boxer said he'd vote for me, for a Scooby snack!:-D

[Remington]

but I'm not going to apologize for having reverence for and pride in the symbol of my country. I expect the same from whomever wants to lead it.
Well, said

[dollfus46]

My Boxer said he'd vote for me, for a Scooby snack!:-D

Heh heh heh. Sounds like my Ian. Cheap little male prossie.:-D

[onlyme]

Why do you feel the need to become a citizen?:confused:

Because I feel at home here now? Because I wanted to have the same rights- and not just obligations - as every other tax paying resident. Because I wanted the chance to actually make a difference by voting? Because I didn't cherish the thought of having to pay A LOT more in taxes should anything happen to my husband? Those seemed good enough reasons for me.
I am not a very emotional person and pragmatism has served me rather well over the years.

[onlyme]

Certainly not....coz I don't know who you are, so how can I know how you personally feel about the pledge of allegiance or the national anthem.... you have not told us how you feel about them...unless I missed it somewhere.

I made a very conscius decision to become a citizen and with that came commitment to the flag, anthem and pledge of allegiance. I have always had respect for other countries' anthems and flags but while I was a resident alien I did not cover my heart but "just" stood silently at attention. Now that I am a citizen I have "relearned" my posture but I have to admit that I forgot to cover my heart for a few times right after I was sworn in - creature of habit and all. My feelings and thoughts were the same though, whether my hands were at my side or one was/is over my heart.

[dollfus46]

Because I feel at home here now? Because I wanted to have the same rights- and not just obligations - as every other tax paying resident. Because I wanted the chance to actually make a difference by voting? Because I didn't cherish the thought of having to pay A LOT more in taxes should anything happen to my husband? Those seemed good enough reasons for me.
I am not a very emotional person and pragmatism has served me rather well over the years.
Nothing wrong with being pragmatic. I wish I were moreso and less emotional ;) Your avatar has me stumped. It looks German. The lower half like a German state flag.

[onlyme]

Nothing wrong with being pragmatic. I wish I were moreso and less emotional ;) Your avatar has me stumped. It looks German. The lower half like a German state flag.

I can be quite hotheaded but I never make decisions based on a gut feeling. I guess it's more fun to live in the moment with a devil-may-care attitude but we capricorns tend to be more analytical ;)
My avatar is the coat of arms of the town where I was born and grew up. Founded in the 9th century, it is comprised of three districts, represented by the three intertwined circles. The two hammers represents the town's mining history.

[dollfus46]

I can be quite hotheaded but I never make decisions based on a gut feeling. I guess it's more fun to live in the moment with a devil-may-care attitude but we capricorns tend to be more analytical ;)
My avatar is the coat of arms of the town where I was born and grew up. Founded in the 9th century, it is comprised of three districts, represented by the three intertwined circles. The two hammers represents the town's mining history.
I have French and German in my ancestery. Dollfuses come from the Alsace Lorraine area of France up near the German border. My great grandmother was Teresa Luhr. Sounds German. My great grandfather, Jean Louis Dollfus came here from Colmar, France. Apparently the French men were infatuated by the little German frauleins:clap:

[onlyme]

Apparently the French men were infatuated by the little German frauleins:clap:

Naturally. What's not to like :kekeke:

[dollfus46]

Naturally. What's not to like :kekeke:

Heh heh heh. I must be gettin old. I never saw that one coming. :smt086

[Reason]

Senator Obama has sponsored or co-sponsored 570 bills in the 109th and 110th Congress.

Senator Obama has sponsored or co-sponsored 15 bills that have become law since he joined the Senate in 2005.

Senator Obama has also introduced amendments to 50 bills, of which 16 were adopted by the Senate.


Most of his legislative effort has been in the area of Energy Efficiency and Climate Change (25 bills), health care (21 bills) and public health (20 bills), consumer protection/labor (14 bills), the needs of Veterans and the Armed Forces (13 bills), Congressional Ethics and Accountability (12 bills), Foreign Policy (10 bills) Voting and Elections (9 bills), Education (7 bills), Hurricane Katrina Relief (6), the Environment (5 bills), Homeland Security (4 bills), and discrimination (4 bills).

Of the 15 bills Senator Obama sponsored or co-sponsored in 2005-7 that became law:
Two addressed foreign policy:
Promote relief, security and democracy in the Congo (2125)
Develop democratic institutions in areas under Palestinian control (2370).
Three addressed public health:
Improve mine safety (2803)
Increased breast cancer funding (597)
Reduce preterm delivery and complications, reduce infant mortality (707).
Two addressed openness and accountability in government:
Strengthening the Freedom of Information Act (2488)
Full disclosure of all entities receiving federal funds (2590)
Two addressed national security
Extend Terrorist Risk Insurance (467)
Amend the Patriot Act (2167)
One addressed the needs of the Armed Forces
Wave passport fees to visit graves, attend memorials/funerals of veterans abroad (1184).
Of the 570 bills Senator Obama introduced into the Senate during the 109th and 110th Congress (Senate Bill numbers are in parentheses), they can be summarized as follows:
25 addressed Energy Efficiency and Climate Change
Suspend royalty relief for oil and gas (115)
Reduce dependence on oil; use of alternative energy sources (133)
Increase fuel economy standards for cars (767, 768)
Auto industry incentives for fuel efficient vehicles (1151)
Reduce green house gas emissions (1324)
Establish at NSF a climate change education program (1389)
Increase renewable content of gasoline (2202)
Energy emergency relief for small businesses and farms (269)
Strategic gasoline and fuel reserves (1794)
Alternative diesel standards (3554)
Coal to liquid fuel promotion (3623)
Renewable diesel standards (1920)
Reducing global warming pollution from vehicles (2555)
Fuel security and consumer choice (1994, 2025)
Alternative energy refueling system (2614)
Climate change education (1389)
Low income energy assistance (2405)
Oil savings targets (339)
Fuel economy reform (3694)
Plug-in electric drive vehicles (1617)
Nuclear release notice (2348)
Passenger rail investment (294)
Energy relief for low income families (2405)
21 addressed Health Care
Drug re-importation (334)
Health information technology (1262, 1418)
Discount drug prices (2347)
Health care associated infections (2278)
Hospital quality report cards (692, 1824)
Medical error disclosure and compensation (1784)
Emergency medical care and response (1873)
Stem cell research (5)
Medical Malpractice insurance (1525)
Health centers renewal (901, 3771)
Children’s health insurance (401)
Home health care (2061)
Medicare independent living (2103)
Microbicides for HIV/AIDS (823)
Ovarian cancer biomarker research (2569)
Gynological cancers (1172)
Access to personalized medicine through use of human genome (976)
Paralysis research and care (1183)
20 addressed Public Health:
Violence against women (1197)
Biodefense and pandemic preparedness and response (1821, 1880)
Viral influenza control (969)
End homelessness (1518)
Reduce STDs/unintended pregnancy (1790)
Smoking prevention and tobacco control (625)
Minority health improvement and disparity elimination (4024)
Nutrition and physical education in schools (2066)
Health impact assessments (1067, 2506)
Healthy communities (1068)
Combat methamphetamines (2071)
Paid sick leave (910)
Prohibit mercury sales (833, 1818)
Prohibit sale of lead products (1306, 2132)
Lead exposure in children (1811, 2132)
14 address Consumer Protection/Labor
Stop unfair labor practices (842)
Fair minimum wage (2, 1062, 2725, 3829)
Internet freedom (2917)
Credit card safety (2411)
Media ownership (2332)
Protecting taxpayer privacy (2484)
Working family child assistance (218)
Habeus Corpus Restoration (185)
Bankruptcy protection for employees and retirees (2092)
FAA fair labor management dispute resolution (2201)
Working families flexibility (2419).
13 addressed the Needs of Veterans and the Armed Forces:
Improve Benefits (117)
Suicide prevention (479)
Needs of homeless veterans (1180)
Homes for veterans (1084)
GI Bill enhancement (43)
Military job protection
Dignity in care for wounded vets (713)
Housing assistance for low income veterans (1084)
Military children in public schools (2151)
Military eye injury research and care (1999)
Research physical/mental health needs from Iraq War (1271)
Proper administration of discharge for personality disorder (1817, 1885)
Security of personal data of veterans (3592)
12 addressed Congressional Ethics and Accountability
Lobbying and ethics reform (230)
Stop fraud (2280)
Legislative transparency and accountability (525)
Open government (2180, 2488)
Restoring fiscal discipline (10)
Transparency and integrity in earmarks (2261)
Accountability of conference committee deliberations and reports (2179)
Federal funding accountability and transparency (2590)
Accountability and oversight for private security functions under Federal
contract (674)
Accountability for contractors and personnel under federal contracts
(2147) Resctrictions awarding government contracts (2519)
10 addressed Foreign Policy:
Iraq war de-escalation (313)
US policy for Iraq (433),
Divestiture from Iran (1430)
Sudan divestment authorization (831)
Millennium Development Goals (2433)
Multilateral debt relief (1320)
Development bank reform (1129)
Nuclear nonproliferation (3131,977,2224).
9 address Voting/Elections
Prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections (453)
Voter access to polls and services in Federal elections (737)
Voter intimidation and deceptive practices (1975)
Senate campaign disclosure parity (185)
Require reporting for bundled campaign contributions (2030)
Election jamming prevention (4102)
Campaign disclosure parity (223)
Presidential funding (2412)
Integrity of electronic voting systems (1487)
11 addressed Education
Increase access of low income African Americans to higher education (1513)
Establish teaching residency programs (1574)
Increase early intervention services (2111)
Middle school curriculum improvements (2227)
Public database of scholarships, fellowships and financial aid (2428)
Summer learning programs (116)
TANF financial education promotion (924)
Higher education (1642)
Build capacity at community colleges (379)
Campus law enforcement in emergencies (1228)
Support for teachers (2060).
6 addressed Hurrican Katrina
Hurricane Katrina recovery (2319)
Emergency relief (1637)
Bankruptcy relief and community protection (1647)
Working family tax relief (2257)
Fair wages for recovery workers (1749)
Gulf coast infrastructure redevelopment (1836)
5 addressed the Environment
Drinking water security (218, 1426)
Water resources development (728)
Waste water treatment (1995)
Combat illegal logging (1930)
Spent nuclear fuel tracking and Acountability (1194)
Asian Carp Prevention and Control Act (Introduced in Senate)[S.726.IS ]
4 addressed Discrimination
Claims for civil class action based on discrimination (1989)
Domestic partnership benefits (2521)
Unresolved civil rights crimes (535)
Equality or two parent families (2286)
4 addressed Homeland Security
Judicial review of FISA orders (2369)
National emergency family locator (1630)
Amend US Patriot Act (2167)
Chemical security and safety (2486)

SOURCE: Daily Kos

[mspolitics82]

Senator Obama has sponsored or co-sponsored 570 bills in the 109th and 110th Congress.....SOURCE: Daily Kos


I was almost impressed, until I saw the source! Not really, nothing about the man impresses me.

[onlyme]

I was almost impressed, until I saw the source!

Does the library of congress work for you? ;)
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery

McCain has only sponsored 37 :smt017

[onlyme]

Does the library of congress work for you? ;)
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery

McCain has only sponsored 37 :smt017

Why doesn't that link work ? :smt013

[onlyme]

Did anyone watch the debate last night between Obama and Clinton? You literally could see Hillary's blood starting to boil, LOL. I was just waiting for her to coldcock Obama :laugh: .

[CircusRide]

Senator Obama has sponsored or co-sponsored 570 bills in the 109th and 110th Congress.

Senator Obama has sponsored or co-sponsored 15 bills that have become law since he joined the Senate in 2005.

Senator Obama has also introduced amendments to 50 bills, of which 16 were adopted by the Senate.


Most of his legislative effort has been in the area of Energy Efficiency and Climate Change (25 bills), health care (21 bills) and public health (20 bills), consumer protection/labor (14 bills), the needs of Veterans and the Armed Forces (13 bills), Congressional Ethics and Accountability (12 bills), Foreign Policy (10 bills) Voting and Elections (9 bills), Education (7 bills), Hurricane Katrina Relief (6), the Environment (5 bills), Homeland Security (4 bills), and discrimination (4 bills).

Of the 15 bills Senator Obama sponsored or co-sponsored in 2005-7 that became law:
Two addressed foreign policy:
Promote relief, security and democracy in the Congo (2125)
Develop democratic institutions in areas under Palestinian control (2370).
Three addressed public health:
Improve mine safety (2803)
Increased breast cancer funding (597)
Reduce preterm delivery and complications, reduce infant mortality (707).
Two addressed openness and accountability in government:
Strengthening the Freedom of Information Act (2488)
Full disclosure of all entities receiving federal funds (2590)
Two addressed national security
Extend Terrorist Risk Insurance (467)
Amend the Patriot Act (2167)
One addressed the needs of the Armed Forces
Wave passport fees to visit graves, attend memorials/funerals of veterans abroad (1184).
Of the 570 bills Senator Obama introduced into the Senate during the 109th and 110th Congress (Senate Bill numbers are in parentheses), they can be summarized as follows:
25 addressed Energy Efficiency and Climate Change
Suspend royalty relief for oil and gas (115)
Reduce dependence on oil; use of alternative energy sources (133)
Increase fuel economy standards for cars (767, 768)
Auto industry incentives for fuel efficient vehicles (1151)
Reduce green house gas emissions (1324)
Establish at NSF a climate change education program (1389)
Increase renewable content of gasoline (2202)
Energy emergency relief for small businesses and farms (269)
Strategic gasoline and fuel reserves (1794)
Alternative diesel standards (3554)
Coal to liquid fuel promotion (3623)
Renewable diesel standards (1920)
Reducing global warming pollution from vehicles (2555)
Fuel security and consumer choice (1994, 2025)
Alternative energy refueling system (2614)
Climate change education (1389)
Low income energy assistance (2405)
Oil savings targets (339)
Fuel economy reform (3694)
Plug-in electric drive vehicles (1617)
Nuclear release notice (2348)
Passenger rail investment (294)
Energy relief for low income families (2405)
21 addressed Health Care
Drug re-importation (334)
Health information technology (1262, 1418)
Discount drug prices (2347)
Health care associated infections (2278)
Hospital quality report cards (692, 1824)
Medical error disclosure and compensation (1784)
Emergency medical care and response (1873)
Stem cell research (5)
Medical Malpractice insurance (1525)
Health centers renewal (901, 3771)
Children’s health insurance (401)
Home health care (2061)
Medicare independent living (2103)
Microbicides for HIV/AIDS (823)
Ovarian cancer biomarker research (2569)
Gynological cancers (1172)
Access to personalized medicine through use of human genome (976)
Paralysis research and care (1183)
20 addressed Public Health:
Violence against women (1197)
Biodefense and pandemic preparedness and response (1821, 1880)
Viral influenza control (969)
End homelessness (1518)
Reduce STDs/unintended pregnancy (1790)
Smoking prevention and tobacco control (625)
Minority health improvement and disparity elimination (4024)
Nutrition and physical education in schools (2066)
Health impact assessments (1067, 2506)
Healthy communities (1068)
Combat methamphetamines (2071)
Paid sick leave (910)
Prohibit mercury sales (833, 1818)
Prohibit sale of lead products (1306, 2132)
Lead exposure in children (1811, 2132)
14 address Consumer Protection/Labor
Stop unfair labor practices (842)
Fair minimum wage (2, 1062, 2725, 3829)
Internet freedom (2917)
Credit card safety (2411)
Media ownership (2332)
Protecting taxpayer privacy (2484)
Working family child assistance (218)
Habeus Corpus Restoration (185)
Bankruptcy protection for employees and retirees (2092)
FAA fair labor management dispute resolution (2201)
Working families flexibility (2419).
13 addressed the Needs of Veterans and the Armed Forces:
Improve Benefits (117)
Suicide prevention (479)
Needs of homeless veterans (1180)
Homes for veterans (1084)
GI Bill enhancement (43)
Military job protection
Dignity in care for wounded vets (713)
Housing assistance for low income veterans (1084)
Military children in public schools (2151)
Military eye injury research and care (1999)
Research physical/mental health needs from Iraq War (1271)
Proper administration of discharge for personality disorder (1817, 1885)
Security of personal data of veterans (3592)
12 addressed Congressional Ethics and Accountability
Lobbying and ethics reform (230)
Stop fraud (2280)
Legislative transparency and accountability (525)
Open government (2180, 2488)
Restoring fiscal discipline (10)
Transparency and integrity in earmarks (2261)
Accountability of conference committee deliberations and reports (2179)
Federal funding accountability and transparency (2590)
Accountability and oversight for private security functions under Federal
contract (674)
Accountability for contractors and personnel under federal contracts
(2147) Resctrictions awarding government contracts (2519)
10 addressed Foreign Policy:
Iraq war de-escalation (313)
US policy for Iraq (433),
Divestiture from Iran (1430)
Sudan divestment authorization (831)
Millennium Development Goals (2433)
Multilateral debt relief (1320)
Development bank reform (1129)
Nuclear nonproliferation (3131,977,2224).
9 address Voting/Elections
Prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections (453)
Voter access to polls and services in Federal elections (737)
Voter intimidation and deceptive practices (1975)
Senate campaign disclosure parity (185)
Require reporting for bundled campaign contributions (2030)
Election jamming prevention (4102)
Campaign disclosure parity (223)
Presidential funding (2412)
Integrity of electronic voting systems (1487)
11 addressed Education
Increase access of low income African Americans to higher education (1513)
Establish teaching residency programs (1574)
Increase early intervention services (2111)
Middle school curriculum improvements (2227)
Public database of scholarships, fellowships and financial aid (2428)
Summer learning programs (116)
TANF financial education promotion (924)
Higher education (1642)
Build capacity at community colleges (379)
Campus law enforcement in emergencies (1228)
Support for teachers (2060).
6 addressed Hurrican Katrina
Hurricane Katrina recovery (2319)
Emergency relief (1637)
Bankruptcy relief and community protection (1647)
Working family tax relief (2257)
Fair wages for recovery workers (1749)
Gulf coast infrastructure redevelopment (1836)
5 addressed the Environment
Drinking water security (218, 1426)
Water resources development (728)
Waste water treatment (1995)
Combat illegal logging (1930)
Spent nuclear fuel tracking and Acountability (1194)
Asian Carp Prevention and Control Act (Introduced in Senate)[S.726.IS ]
4 addressed Discrimination
Claims for civil class action based on discrimination (1989)
Domestic partnership benefits (2521)
Unresolved civil rights crimes (535)
Equality or two parent families (2286)
4 addressed Homeland Security
Judicial review of FISA orders (2369)
National emergency family locator (1630)
Amend US Patriot Act (2167)
Chemical security and safety (2486)

SOURCE: Daily Kos

And how many times did he just vote "present"?

[mspolitics82]

Does the library of congress work for you? ;)
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery

McCain has only sponsored 37 :smt017


I am not impressed by McCain, either. Obama and McCain are clearly the choices of the mainstream media....that is how they both got where they are in this Presidential race so far. The media wants Obama and has been pushing McCain from the start, because the media has believed all along that he would be the easiest Republican of the field to beat. Now, of course, some of you are going to have lots of fun with these remarks, but the power of the media is astounding! How else can two guys with very little to no substance get so far? Change? It's time for change? Duh!!! Would one of you Dems/Liberals or whatever you label yourselves ---and supports Obama----tell me why you think Obama represents CHANGE, but Hillary would not represent that to you? Or is it that Hillary's change will just not be enough change or the right kind of change? Anybody who gets in the office is going to be CHANGE, because those running have said they will not continue in step with George Bush, unless, of course, they were just trying to fool the electorate for their votes. But, they would not do that, would they?

[Reason]

Except for hippies and college students, most of the hardcore Democrats I've met are better voters, plain and simple. They look at both sides and pick their candidates based on the facts. They are more likely to vote over issues instead of beliefs. Most of the Republicans I've met just vote for the Republican no matter what.

I like McCain, aside from his warmongering platitudes.

The reason most of you Republicans are so befuddled is because McCain isn't a lockstep sycophant who promises to do the bidding of the four bases of the party:

1. Fiscal Conservatives
2. Social Conservatives
3. Overly patriotic flag-eating warmongers
4. Libertarians

With Bush, you had a candidate who promised to please all four. Of course, he only focused on 2 and 3, and even managed to piss off some of them. Lesson? Politicians lie to get elected. Gasp.

This time, you had Huckabee, who pleased the social conservatives, Romney, who pleased the fiscal conservatives, Paul, who pleased the libertarians and McCain, who pleased the patriots.

None of them pleased all four, so you went with the least creepy guy.

Personally, I'm fiscally conservative but socially very liberal. I like my country but abhor patriotism and nationalism. I opposed the war since the beginning. I saw through the fear tactics that capitalized on 9/11 from the beginning. I consider myself very libertarian and believe the free market will take care of most, but not all, of our problems.

So, McCain is not so bad to me. But, up against Obama or Clinton or Paul, he looks lame and decrepit. He looks like the last eight years, they look like the next, and Obama has the added benefit of not having already lived in the White House for two terms.

The country as a whole is ready to move in a different direction so much that people are gravitating toward the candidate who is the MOST different than Bush.

You see? It isn't just about "change" for the sake of change, like a new shirt. It's about flushing the Bush presidency down the toilet, and with it all the worst parts of the Republican Party.

[CircusRide]

Except for hippies and college students, most of the hardcore Democrats I've met are better voters, plain and simple. They look at both sides and pick their candidates based on the facts. They are more likely to vote over issues instead of beliefs. Most of the Republicans I've met just vote for the Republican no matter what.

I like McCain, aside from his warmongering platitudes.

The reason most of you Republicans are so befuddled is because McCain isn't a lockstep sycophant who promises to do the bidding of the four bases of the party:

1. Fiscal Conservatives
2. Social Conservatives
3. Overly patriotic flag-eating warmongers
4. Libertarians

With Bush, you had a candidate who promised to please all four. Of course, he only focused on 2 and 3, and even managed to piss off some of them. Lesson? Politicians lie to get elected. Gasp.

This time, you had Huckabee, who pleased the social conservatives, Romney, who pleased the fiscal conservatives, Paul, who pleased the libertarians and McCain, who pleased the patriots.

None of them pleased all four, so you went with the least creepy guy.

Personally, I'm fiscally conservative but socially very liberal. I like my country but abhor patriotism and nationalism. I opposed the war since the beginning. I saw through the fear tactics that capitalized on 9/11 from the beginning. I consider myself very libertarian and believe the free market will take care of most, but not all, of our problems.

So, McCain is not so bad to me. But, up against Obama or Clinton or Paul, he looks lame and decrepit. He looks like the last eight years, they look like the next, and Obama has the added benefit of not having already lived in the White House for two terms.

The country as a whole is ready to move in a different direction so much that people are gravitating toward the candidate who is the MOST different than Bush.

You see? It isn't just about "change" for the sake of change, like a new shirt. It's about flushing the Bush presidency down the toilet, and with it all the worst parts of the Republican Party.

You know, you actually have things in there that I agree with. I don't think I've ever agreed with you on anything. The world is about to end!

[Echo Four Bravo]

[quote=Reason;475400] I like my country but abhor patriotism and nationalism.

quote]
You like your country? No offense, but why in the world should I listen to someone who only has a moderate appreciation for their home in matters of a presidential election?

[dollfus46]

You know, you actually have things in there that I agree with. I don't think I've ever agreed with you on anything. The world is about to end!
I'm with you CircusRide. Reason was sounding half smart for about half that post. Then he tanked. They can't stand prosperity.:kekeke: Frankly I think they'll snatch defeat from the jaws of victory again in November. I'm confident of it. McCain will be our next President. Just the same wild guess as anyone who picks Obama or Hillary.:smt102

[Luvia]

Except for hippies and college students, most of the hardcore Democrats I've met are better voters, plain and simple. They look at both sides and pick their candidates based on the facts. They are more likely to vote over issues instead of beliefs.

That has definitely not been my experience at all! Interesting that you've had the exact opposite experience I have had. My hardcore democratic friends wouldn't look at political stances to save their lives.

[dollfus46]

That has definitely not been my experience at all! Interesting that you've had the exact opposite experience I have had. My hardcore democratic friends wouldn't look at political stances to save their lives.
Heh heh heh. Yeah. He's a bit naive about that. Most Republicans and Democrats march lockstep to the party line. It's the independents that look at both sides of the issue.:smt023 The rest of us cherry pick in order to justify our vote.

[dreamhippy]

Pray for brokered Party conventions. At this point, it is imperative that the Party conventions be brokered conventions if we are to have a positive end result.

Obama creeps me out. Hillary creeps me out. McCain creeps me out.
Huckabee creeps me out.

Help me pray for this country that the best possible candidate will be elected!

[kevin]

As far as I'm concerned we could save the Country money.We could just sit them down and play spin the bottle to elect the next President! Wouldn't make much of a difference!

[dollfus46]

I like McCain, aside from his warmongering platitudes.


Would you mind expounding on the phrase warmongering platitides?:confused: I don't need a definition, I need an explanation, since you so cavalierly tossed it out there.

[mspolitics82]

As far as I'm concerned we could save the Country money.We could just sit them down and play spin the bottle to elect the next President! Wouldn't make much of a difference!


Or....as I have said repeatedly....have a NATIONAL PRIMARY, where WE ALL get a chance to have a pesonal say so in the nominees (for the party of our choice.)

[mspolitics82]

The world is about to end!


You may have been just kidding, mabye not.....but, I seriously think we may be getting close.

[dreamhippy]

I read this on another forum and agree with it 100%:


The 3 top runners want to throw the borders open and give our country to the Mexicans. http://homesteadingtoday.com/images/smilies/flame.gif I don't understand how anyone can vote for any of them. http://homesteadingtoday.com/images/smilies/confused.gif There is only one candidate who wants to secure our borders, stop the plan to cut the country in half giving the center corridor to Mexico along with a big chunk of land in the KC area. The others want to tax us to death and take away more of our freedom. I can't understand why people can't see what is happening. Why are they voting to give away our country and pay people to take chunks of it? Obviously most people believe the rhetoric they hear on the boob tube.

[CircusRide]

As long as Obama is getting a pass on issues I have no respect for him. The media doesn't have a problem taking a shot at the other candidates but they refuse to ask their darling the tough questions. Obama has absolutely nothing to offer. He's the MTV candidate.

[kevin]

As long as Obama is getting a pass on issues I have no respect for him. The media doesn't have a problem taking a shot at the other candidates but they refuse to ask their darling the tough questions. Obama has absolutely nothing to offer. He's the MTV candidate.


:clap:AMEN:clap:

[firefly]

Obama just scares the He!! out of me!:evil: Even more than Hillary!:smt118

[dollfus46]

I read this on another forum and agree with it 100%:


The 3 top runners want to throw the borders open and give our country to the Mexicans. http://homesteadingtoday.com/images/smilies/flame.gif I don't understand how anyone can vote for any of them. http://homesteadingtoday.com/images/smilies/confused.gif There is only one candidate who wants to secure our borders, stop the plan to cut the country in half giving the center corridor to Mexico along with a big chunk of land in the KC area. The others want to tax us to death and take away more of our freedom. I can't understand why people can't see what is happening. Why are they voting to give away our country and pay people to take chunks of it? Obviously most people believe the rhetoric they hear on the boob tube.
In your blind dislike for the other candidates, you missed the part where McCain said he's closing the borders and no new taxes. But, he has to have Congress to do it. He can only veto. He can't bring up legislation, vote on it. Only sign or veto. That's why I say, pay more attention to your Congressmen and Senators

[Luvia]

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=529&Itemid=34

I've never heard of this publication and don't know anything about it...but I do like this article and agree with a lot of what's written in this particular piece.

Here's one excerpt...but the whole article should be read. It's very interesting.


The 2008 Obama presidential run may be the most slickly orchestrated marketing machine in memory. That's not a good thing. Marketing is not even distantly related to democracy or civic empowerment. Marketing is about creating emotional, even irrational bonds between your product and your target audience. From its Bloody Sunday 2007 (http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?Itemid=34&id=124&option=com_content&task=view) proclamation that Obama was the second coming of Joshua to its nationally televised kickoff at Abe Lincoln's tomb to the tens of millions of dollars in breathless free media coverage lavished on it by the establishment media, the campaign's deft manipulation of hopeful themes and emotionally potent symbols has led many to impute their own cherished views to Obama, whether he endorses them or not

[CircusRide]

Plain and simple- The media has gotten too involved in the election process. They sway opinion instead of reporting all facts and information. It's more like watching an opinion piece than actually receiving quality journalism.
What's worse is that Americans are just eating it up. The country isn't looking at facts and making a decision, it's letting the media tell us who to vote for. Obama is a young, educated, nice looking guy who speaks well and has a helluva marketing team. I just want him to address the issues. He consistantly blows them off with the exception of the war. He hasn't had to address his church, his poor voting record, his extremely liberal record, nor his support of an energy bill that basically gives in to big oil.