Obama `08

[Conveyor Belt]

It's three polls. And while I don't care for polls, the polls have been from three separate outlets (not that it means whole lot). The same outlets that were showing Obama leading a month ago.

Again, I won't restate my question, but it still stands...

[CircusRide]

Is every Sunday service on tape and available to the public? I wasn't given that impression. I have never seen that written anywhere.

All anyone has to do is go to the church website. You read right there, what the church stands for. It's a cop out to claim it's only one sermon when they have their ideas plastered on their website for the world to see.
Obama should've addressed this along time ago. It's the one mistake he's made in his run IMO.

[CircusRide]

Again, I won't restate my question, but it still stands...

I don't have a candidate in this race. So it doesn't affect me one way or the other. If it were Clinton or McCain, I'd have still posted it.

[SueScribe]

Good Morning, folks. Just when I thought I was out - they pulled me back in. Goes to show: With some people, when you do something nice for them, they just cannot get enough of "gimme more."

Got my cell bill today, looked at it and my ears started pounding. My cell company was doubtless trying to sc**w me over, the devious and disingenuous A-holes. Poor SIL spent fifteen minutes on the phone with me tonight, while I demanded that he - in his omnipotent wisdom - give me his considered opinion as to just precisely WHAT my "700 Minute", Free Mobile to Mobile Plan REALLY meant, and why was the cell company trying to pull a fast one? (Note: SIL is one of the most patient, adaptable, easy-on-the relationship people I’ve known. He is, after all, married to my daughter, and I'm his mother-in-law.)

Half-way through my rant to poor SIL, it hits me, kinda like Joe Lieberman’s sudden realization that John McCain had his terrorist wires crossed and was making declarations, i.e. ". . and everybody knows it. ." that wouldn’t work, for the third consecutive time, in front of The Press, against the back-drop of some Middle Eastern mesopotamian wall:

My cell bill was more than five (5) times the usual because I spent hours Getting Out The Vote in Mississippi on the cell phone: "Hi, may I speak to Clarence? Oh, I’m so sorry to hear that. The Campaign extends its condolences. Are you his widow?"

That wasn’t good enough for Barack. And now?

I’m dragging down the jackets and long johns and am off to Pennsylvania. Voter Registration. Canvassing. Ferrying, if need be (although my commitment only extends through next Friday).

Pittsburgh - the Garden Spot of Pennsylvanis where the bleak monochromatic landscape of an unattractive city has been somewhat diffused by the absence of steel mills. Deer Hunter territory, where folk go off to fight in Vietnam and some come back, changed somewhat, and the loose-screw among them stay and shoot themselves in the head, all the while Meryl Streep cries her eyes out in her mobile home, devasted.

See ya’ll next weekend.

No question: You’ll all be on my mind and in my heart and before my tour is through, I’ll likely Wish You Were There.

Cheers,

Sue.

[kevin]

Sue, I do Admire your devotion to your cause!

[dollfus46]

Good Morning, folks. Just when I thought I was out - they pulled me back in. Goes to show: With some people, when you do something nice for them, they just cannot get enough of "gimme more."

Got my cell bill today, looked at it and my ears started pounding. My cell company was doubtless trying to sc**w me over, the devious and disingenuous A-holes. Poor SIL spent fifteen minutes on the phone with me tonight, while I demanded that he - in his omnipotent wisdom - give me his considered opinion as to just precisely WHAT my "700 Minute", Free Mobile to Mobile Plan REALLY meant, and why was the cell company trying to pull a fast one? (Note: SIL is one of the most patient, adaptable, easy-on-the relationship people I’ve known. He is, after all, married to my daughter, and I'm his mother-in-law.)

Half-way through my rant to poor SIL, it hits me, kinda like Joe Lieberman’s sudden realization that John McCain had his terrorist wires crossed and was making declarations, i.e. ". . and everybody knows it. ." that wouldn’t work, for the third consecutive time, in front of The Press, against the back-drop of some Middle Eastern mesopotamian wall:

My cell bill was more than five (5) times the usual because I spent hours Getting Out The Vote in Mississippi on the cell phone: "Hi, may I speak to Clarence? Oh, I’m so sorry to hear that. The Campaign extends its condolences. Are you his widow?"

That wasn’t good enough for Barack. And now?

I’m dragging down the jackets and long johns and am off to Pennsylvania. Voter Registration. Canvassing. Ferrying, if need be (although my commitment only extends through next Friday).

Pittsburgh - the Garden Spot of Pennsylvanis where the bleak monochromatic landscape of an unattractive city has been somewhat diffused by the absence of steel mills. Deer Hunter territory, where folk go off to fight in Vietnam and some come back, changed somewhat, and the loose-screw among them stay and shoot themselves in the head, all the while Meryl Streep cries her eyes out in her mobile home, devasted.

See ya’ll next weekend.

No question: You’ll all be on my mind and in my heart and before my tour is through, I’ll likely Wish You Were There.

Cheers,

Sue.
Be safe, Sue. Don't want anything to happen to my favorite antagonist.:smt023 I probably can thank you for my living this long. You've certainly kept my blood pumping.;):clap: I'd go with you, but my southern ass get nose-bleed just crossing over from SC into NC. :smt118

[mspolitics82]

Sue, bring us all back some Hershey chocolate from PA......better yet, airmail ME some (it might melt in regular U.S. Mail) !

[wilebill]

Obama should've addressed this along time ago. It's the one mistake he's made in his run IMO.In his appearance on Jay Leno tonight, Geraldo Rivera agrees with you. Now that's scary.

[Hub a Bubba]

Obama too unstable for presidency

http://www.renewamerica.us/images/columnists/swank.jpg
Grant Swank
Grant Swank (http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/swank)
March 18, 2008


The man is simply too frighteningly multi-dimensional to be President.

Who actually is Barack Obama?

I am not sure if he knows who he is. I don't think Michelle knows who she is.

Is Obama Muslim or not? He has enough baggage to point to being Muslim without question, albeit a closet one in order to get the Big Office.

He's not biblical Christian in that he pushes pro-choice and sodomy, both condemned in Scripture.

His Senate voting record reveals him the most far left of the left in that conclave. The most far left for President? And that personage is to unite the nation?

He's aligned too much with Islam to be endeared to Jews. He's supportive of his Muslim cousin political leader in Kenya, the cousin now responsible for untold deaths there in the last weeks.

He wrote in "Audacity" that if Muslims were slighted, he'd come to their defense before any others.

He endures nuthouse speeches from a crazy cultic preacher who has mesmerized thousands under his tutelage.

He courts evangelicals with Bible belt gospel concerts when discounting the biblical record himself. He tells the evangelical publication, Christianity Today, that he is "Christian" when he is in no way that according to CT's understanding of that term.

When asked about his position on homosexuality, he revealed his lack of biblical knowledge. He said, "Go read the Sermon on the Mount." Matthew 5-7 has nothing to do with that issue.

He prays to Jesus, the Jesus prophet of Islam for he does not know the biblical Jesus. If he did he would not disobey that Jesus' moral standard.

His book, "Audacity," endorses the eradication of Judeo-Christianity for a meshing of all religions.

In other words, this man has too many sides to his persona. Any one of those could cripple America. Any one of those could powerfully wreck the Republic: leftist of the leftists, anti-biblical Christians, pro-Islam, tolerant of anti-whites diatribes, suave enough to wiggle through issues so as to fool his audiences, and amassing hordes of young who really know nothing of his positions on anything.

We need a stable individual as President. Obama is not that person.

Joseph Grant Swank, Jr., is a pastor at New Hope Church in Windham, Maine, and is the author of five books and thousands of articles that have appeared in various Protestant and Catholic publications. He currently writes a column for RenewAmerica.us, MichNews.com, Magic-City-News.com, AmericanDaily.com, NewsByUs.com, The Conservative Crusader.com, PostChronicle.com, TheConservativeVoice.com, Republican and Proud.com, FaithFreedom.org, Conservative Posts.us, ArriveNet.com, MosqueWatch.blogspot.com, EzineArticles.com, Chalcedon Report, and others.

He has been married for 46 years and has three adult children. He has BA and MDiv degrees, with graduate work at Harvard Divinity School.

Grant maintains a website at http://truthinconviction.us/weblog.php You can e-mail him at grantswank@<NOSPAM>roadrunner.com (grantswank@roadrunner.com)

© Copyright 2008 by Grant Swank
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/swank/080318

[fuzzis]

From the wiki:


Posts that contain the text of an entire book, article, graphic, picture or blog post without the author's express permission is a copyright violation. You may post small excerpts of these items, with a link to the original page containing the text. If you post the entire contents of an item, you will be warned. Continual violations will result in a ban.

Post a relevant excerpt and then a link.

[dollfus46]

From the wiki:



Post a relevant excerpt and then a link.

One must assume he has the authors permission in this case or he wouldn't have the option at the bottom of the piece to print or email it.:smt023 Thanks, Huba bubba.

[fuzzis]

Obama Edges Ahead of Clinton (http://www.gallup.com/poll/105529/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Edges-Ahead-Clinton.aspx)

...Obama's campaign clearly suffered in recent days from negative press, mostly centering around his association with the controversial Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Perhaps as a result, Clinton moved into the lead in Gallup's Wednesday release, covering March 16-18 polling. But Obama has now edged back ahead of Clinton due to a strong showing for him in Friday night's polling, perhaps in response to the endorsement he received from well-respected New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, a former rival for the nomination. (To view the complete trend since Jan. 2, 2008, click here.)

Both Democrats have inched closer to John McCain in the latest update on registered voters' general election preferences. McCain holds just a two percentage point edge over both -- 46% to 44% over Obama and 47% to 45% over Clinton....

Couple that with the fact that Clinton's campaign is broke...again...and this last week is just humorous. :laugh:

[dollfus46]

I think it's the Republicans' race to lose at this point. What may do them in is the dem's excitement toward their candidates. It'll bring out the votes. Whereas the Republicans can't all seem to get behind McCain. I'm not a great political prognosticator though.

[fuzzis]

Interesting take (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/21/AR2008032102742.html?hpid=opinionsbox1) on the church issue.

[dollfus46]

Interesting take (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/21/AR2008032102742.html?hpid=opinionsbox1) on the church issue.

It lost me at" "I'm so proud of Reverend Wright.........":smt105

[EricStratton]

It lost me at" "I'm so proud of Reverend Wright.........":smt105

Well....if you read the whole article, you will see that the author criticizes Wright more than he/she praises him....The article basically explains that, a decade or so ago, many black preachers were on the same page with Wright, but most have gone a different route while Wright remains in the dark ages....

[dollfus46]

Well....if you read the whole article, you will see that the author criticizes Wright more than he/she praises him....The article basically explains that, a decade or so ago, many black preachers were on the same page with Wright, but most have gone a different route while Wright remains in the dark ages....

I tried to go back and read it. Read page 1 got a belly full. I'll try page 2 after I go to the bathroom. But I was highly suspious when I saw Washington Post, even more suspicious when I saw the author and admitedly have a negative attitude toward it. By the time I got to "I'm proud of the Rev. Wright", I was done. I swore to myself I would not post on any "race" subject ever again. No point in it. Why am I here? I was "Seduced" Heh heh heh, by the title. But it's the same ole stuff. Doesn't prove me right but adds fodder to my posts. Everybody knows. I have no need nor reason to read nor post on race again. :clap:

[mspolitics82]

I think it's the Republicans' race to lose at this point. What may do them in is the dem's excitement toward their candidates. It'll bring out the votes. Whereas the Republicans can't all seem to get behind McCain. I'm not a great political prognosticator though.


Dollfus, I think your first statement is a good assessment at this point in time. Unless something major changes for the Dems, I think they are on a sinking ship. IMO, Obama was their only hope really, and I think that hope has been crushed beyond repair.....and yes, they indeed have been bringing out the vote, but if Hillary gets the nomination I really can see a large number of Obama supporters not really caring much anymore.....they will stay at home in large numbers and not vote because they will feel that Obama has been "robbed". And, if Obama does by chance get the nomination, I can see a large number of Hillary voters doing the same, only because many of them do not see Obama as a qualified Commander in Chief. However, I can see some of Hillary's supporters crossing over to McCain, if she doesn't get the Dem nod, coz, when you get down to it, McCain has "reached" across the party line too many times as a Senator to not be able to win some Dem votes......BUT OBAMA SUPPORTERS WILL NOT CROSS OVER (maybe a very few, but too few to even matter) to McCain. I would like to see a poll of INDEPENDENT voters, where they stood 6 weeks ago and where they stand today. I think McCain will end up getting the majority of Independents, no matter who the Dem nominee is. I really think McCain has it nailed at this point....unless he goofs big time on his VP choice.

(I'm still hoping for an upheavel at the Rep. National Convention.....it never hurts to dream!)

[dollfus46]

I don't see Hillary taking the nomination. The numbers just aren't there. Polls have Mc
Cain winning over both dems. But that's assuming those taking the poll vote. I said as much earlier. Never has the U.S. ever elected a far left nor far right President. McCain is the man closest to the middle. Obama and Hillary are both off the charts left. The independents won't go for him. Some dems won't. But we'll see. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Sounds horrible to say, but if they'll shoot Ford, Kennedy, Kennedy, Reagan, Wallace, some sicko is liable to shoot Obama.

[hendrixfreak70]

I don't see Hillary taking the nomination. The numbers just aren't there. Polls have Mc
Cain winning over both dems. But that's assuming those taking the poll vote. I said as much earlier. Never has the U.S. ever elected a far left nor far right President. McCain is the man closest to the middle. Obama and Hillary are both off the charts left. The independents won't go for him. Some dems won't. But we'll see. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Sounds horrible to say, but if they'll shoot Ford, Kennedy, Kennedy, Reagan, Wallace, some sicko is liable to shoot Obama.

Well here goes my conspiratorial two cents, if Obama does something right then he will be shot. By right I mean if he goes AGAINST the establishment he will be shot like Reagan (wanted to abolish the Fed Reserve and get us out of the UN but walked a straight line after the attempt), Kennedy (wanted to get rid of the Fed Reserve and didn't want to get involved in Vietnam, talked about the CFR) and Wallace, well that is self-explanatory. Ford don't know much about in a 'conspiratorial sense except he was a CFR member. Don't know his dealings much.

[dollfus46]

Well here goes my conspiratorial two cents, if Obama does something right then he will be shot. By right I mean if he goes AGAINST the establishment he will be shot like Reagan (wanted to abolish the Fed Reserve and get us out of the UN but walked a straight line after the attempt), Kennedy (wanted to get rid of the Fed Reserve and didn't want to get involved in Vietnam, talked about the CFR) and Wallace, well that is self-explanatory. Ford don't know much about in a 'conspiratorial sense except he was a CFR member. Don't know his dealings much.

If you insist on using big words I'm not gonna play.:smt086

[JB2379]

I find it extremely funny that all of this mess with the minister is the only dirt that the media can find on Obama. Do you realize how insignificant and meaningless this crap is. The media is setting a very dangerous precedent by continuing to focus on the words of this minsiter. If we are all honest with ourselves, we need to admit that ministers can sometimes be aggresive and fiery individuals, who often times say things to offend different people. If you were running for office, should you be held accountable for something that your pastor said? Sound ridiculous, right? And furthermore, how many of us have actually got up and walked out of a sermon when our pastor has said something controversial? Finally, if we were to put video cameras in al the churches in America, how many politiicans and aspiring politicians would be in the same position as Obama?

[Conveyor Belt]

I find it extremely funny that all of this mess with the minister is the only dirt that the media can find on Obama. Do you realize how insignificant and meaningless this crap is. The media is setting a very dangerous precedent by continuing to focus on the words of this minsiter. If we are all honest with ourselves, we need to admit that ministers can sometimes be aggresive and fiery individuals, who often times say things to offend different people. If you were running for office, should you be held accountable for something that your pastor said? Sound ridiculous, right? And furthermore, how many of us have actually got up and walked out of a sermon when our pastor has said something controversial? Finally, if we were to put video cameras in al the churches in America, how many politiicans and aspiring politicians would be in the same position as Obama?

But, JB... he's a secret muslim and did cocaine and we need some excuse to not vote for him... not because he's a black man... any excuse besides that one...

Glad to see you posting JB. I got finished posting in this thread and others like it a few days ago... it's pointless.

[dollfus46]

I find it extremely funny that all of this mess with the minister is the only dirt that the media can find on Obama. Do you realize how insignificant and meaningless this crap is. The media is setting a very dangerous precedent by continuing to focus on the words of this minsiter. If we are all honest with ourselves, we need to admit that ministers can sometimes be aggresive and fiery individuals, who often times say things to offend different people. If you were running for office, should you be held accountable for something that your pastor said? Sound ridiculous, right? And furthermore, how many of us have actually got up and walked out of a sermon when our pastor has said something controversial? Finally, if we were to put video cameras in al the churches in America, how many politiicans and aspiring politicians would be in the same position as Obama?

Why didn't you jump out here and defend Hillary when Geraldine Farraro made her comment? Where were you when the media tried to put McCain in bed with the lobbiest? Where were you when Obama said, "typical white people". Same place NOW was when Billy boy was playing hide the weasel with Monica. Nowhere to be found. Just an observation.;)

[EricStratton]

Sounds horrible to say, but if they'll shoot Ford, Kennedy, Kennedy, Reagan, Wallace, some sicko is liable to shoot Obama.

WOW!!!! Why would we even talk about this?

[Conveyor Belt]

WOW!!!! Why would we even talk about this?

Because he's a secret muslim... again, what's going on with the memo distribution system??? Or are you just choosing to ignore the fact that the memo clearly states:

OBAMA=SECRET MUSLIM

[fuzzis]

WOW!!!! Why would we even talk about this?

{tongue planted firmly in cheek}

Because it gives those that are having a stroke over the thought that Obama might be our President hope that at least he won't be our President for long?

[Conveyor Belt]

{tongue planted firmly in cheek}

Because it gives those that are having a stroke over the thought that Obama might be our President hope that at least he won't be our President for long?

Hmmm... you may want to remove your tongue... you might be on to something....

[JB2379]

Why didn't you jump out here and defend Hillary when Geraldine Farraro made her comment? Where were you when the media tried to put McCain in bed with the lobbiest? Where were you when Obama said, "typical white people". Same place NOW was when Billy boy was playing hide the weasel with Monica. Nowhere to be found. Just an observation.;)

Well, this thread is about Obama, so I thoought it would make perfect sense if my post was about Obama.

[dollfus46]

Good point. But you still had the same opportunity to come to Hililary and McCain's aid for the same thing and didn't. Anyway, I disagree with you. Obama got caught lying. How's that? First he had no clue. Then, well, he did have a clue. And stuck with a racist for 20 years letting his impressionable children soak up that stuff. Especially the Monica F*** hip action. A decent father would have snatched his kids up and out of there. I'm sickened by the excusing of that kind of hateful rhetoric. Hitler did the same thing except it was Jews instead of whites. No excuse for it in my opinion. We need to quit worrying about color and work together. The past is the past. I see no advantage in living in it. It only holds one back in my opinion.

[wilebill]

I find it extremely funny that all of this mess with the minister is the only dirt that the media can find on Obama. Do you realize how insignificant and meaningless this crap is. The media is setting a very dangerous precedent by continuing to focus on the words of this minsiter. If we are all honest with ourselves, we need to admit that ministers can sometimes be aggresive and fiery individuals, who often times say things to offend different people. If you were running for office, should you be held accountable for something that your pastor said? Sound ridiculous, right? And furthermore, how many of us have actually got up and walked out of a sermon when our pastor has said something controversial? Finally, if we were to put video cameras in al the churches in America, how many politiicans and aspiring politicians would be in the same position as Obama?I do think there's relevance, but in the way Obama handled the situation once the revelations were made. And if the allegations about Obama having discussions with the minister when he decided to run for president are true, it makes me even more suspicious about the decisions made later.

I find it ironic that churches were a hotbed of activity for the KKK, then peacefully used for Civil Rights activities, and now once again for white hate mongering. It's come full circle. I think it's shameful that Obama has allowed himself to be put in the situation that he finds himself in, and he has nobody to blame for this but himself.

[hendrixfreak70]

I will only bad mouth Obama because of his policies about (health care) gun control, foreign policy issues, the inability to understand why the dollar is sinking yadda yadda yadda. Why worry about what a pastor said: Pat Robertson endorsed Rudy "abort a baby" Guiliani. James Dobson endorsed Mike (tax hike) Huckabee. People, the issues at hand about race are not relevant when we have three losers running for president. If I vote for A then I may as well be voting for B. Etc Etc. I give up.

[mspolitics82]

I find it extremely funny that all of this mess with the minister is the only dirt that the media can find on Obama. Do you realize how insignificant and meaningless this crap is. The media is setting a very dangerous precedent by continuing to focus on the words of this minsiter. If we are all honest with ourselves, we need to admit that ministers can sometimes be aggresive and fiery individuals, who often times say things to offend different people. If you were running for office, should you be held accountable for something that your pastor said? Sound ridiculous, right? And furthermore, how many of us have actually got up and walked out of a sermon when our pastor has said something controversial? Finally, if we were to put video cameras in al the churches in America, how many politiicans and aspiring politicians would be in the same position as Obama?

Is it that he is being held accountable for what his minister said, or the fact that his minister has been radical from the pulpit for many years now, and Obama has remained under his "shepherding". That is what seems serious to me......Obama could have left the church years ago with valid reasons related to this pastor's remarks, but chose to stay and bring up his children in that type of "church" environment. As I said in a post on another thread, I wonder if he's tried to cover the ears of his young daughters; and if he really, really disagrees with a lot of what his former pastor said (as Obama led us to believe in his speech), then how did he (if he did) explain all that to his daughters????

Re: the camera in the churches of politicians.........I seriously doubt you find that kind of preaching in too many churches across this country....I am sure it goes on in some, but I doubt that most churches would put up with that kind of behavior from their pastors very long. Of course, most Obama supporters will certainly disagree with me on that one.

[Luvia]

If you were running for office, should you be held accountable for something that your pastor said?

If you publicly state this man inspires you and is your moral compass...then absolutely, yes.

And furthermore, how many of us have actually got up and walked out of a sermon when our pastor has said something controversial?

I may not walk out immediately, but I surely wouldn't be back. I have some experience with this personally.

Finally, if we were to put video cameras in al the churches in America, how many politiicans and aspiring politicians would be in the same position as Obama?

I would hope they would be in the exact same position. Such hatred and bigotry should never be tolerated. I have been to many churches visiting...and I've never heard anything remotely like this preacher.

[JB2379]

If you publicly state this man inspires you and is your moral compass...then absolutely, yes.



I may not walk out immediately, but I surely wouldn't be back. I have some experience with this personally.



I would hope they would be in the exact same position. Such hatred and bigotry should never be tolerated. I have been to many churches visiting...and I've never heard anything remotely like this preacher.

Like I mentioned earlier - Pastors are going to say things that offend different groups of people. I don't approve of it, but they do it. I've been in churches where the pastors have been extremely critical of doctors, lawyers, teachers, gays/lesbians, rich people, and the list goes on and on. That's what I meant that if cameras were in all of the churches in America, you better believe that alot of people would be victims of guilt by association.

[Bluesman]

Like I mentioned earlier - Pastors are going to say things that offend different groups of people. I don't approve of it, but they do it. I've been in churches where the pastors have been extremely critical of doctors, lawyers, teachers, gays/lesbians, rich people, and the list goes on and on. That's what I meant that if cameras were in all of the churches in America, you better believe that alot of people would be victims of guilt by association.
Hmmm. Reverand Fairly?:smt102 Bagel... Atari:smt118

[Luvia]

Like I mentioned earlier - Pastors are going to say things that offend different groups of people. I don't approve of it, but they do it. I've been in churches where the pastors have been extremely critical of doctors, lawyers, teachers, gays/lesbians, rich people, and the list goes on and on. That's what I meant that if cameras were in all of the churches in America, you better believe that alot of people would be victims of guilt by association.

Sure pastors may offend groups of people...and no one will ever agree 100% with anyone. There has to be a line though where you step away. Racism crosses that line for me. Actually any hatred crosses that line. There is a big difference between being critical of someone and hating someone.

No one has a problem with a controversial preacher. The whole point is that this man has been so influential in Obama's life. I know a lot of people who go to church and not one of them considers their pastor their moral compass. It just disturbs me.

I also am just amazed at how this guy gets a free pass on this... If anyone else went to a church who preached something similar...they'd be fried along with the pastor. Heck...others have been fried for much less (some rightfully so, others not so much perhaps). I see a lot of people taking up for inexcusable behavior (Wright's).

It really doesn't matter as far as my vote goes...because I am not impressed with his take on the issues. I'm not impressed with anyone. I might forgive anything if I could just find a candidate who seemed to have some sense and live in the real world. haha!

[dollfus46]

Sure pastors may offend groups of people...and no one will ever agree 100% with anyone. There has to be a line though where you step away. Racism crosses that line for me. Actually any hatred crosses that line. There is a big difference between being critical of someone and hating someone.

No one has a problem with a controversial preacher. The whole point is that this man has been so influential in Obama's life. I know a lot of people who go to church and not one of them considers their pastor their moral compass. It just disturbs me.

I also am just amazed at how this guy gets a free pass on this... If anyone else went to a church who preached something similar...they'd be fried along with the pastor. Heck...others have been fried for much less (some rightfully so, others not so much perhaps). I see a lot of people taking up for inexcusable behavior (Wright's).

It really doesn't matter as far as my vote goes...because I am not impressed with his take on the issues. I'm not impressed with anyone. I might forgive anything if I could just find a candidate who seemed to have some sense and live in the real world. haha!
I cannot conceive of my pastor offending me. Or saying anything I disagree with. I don't attend churches that play with snakes, or talk in tongues. As I said before, I attended a church that had my son talking in tongue. I snatched him and my wife up and we changed churches. I could be missing something. I think abortions and homosexual actions to be wrong. If I have a minister who preaches otherwise, I'd find another church. I think Obama and others should too.

[drake]

I cannot conceive of my pastor offending me. Or saying anything I disagree with.

Our church has been going through what the "official" stand of our affiliation on various issues is. I was surprised about how controversial some things were. I would say if you didn't question anything your pastor said, that would be dangerous ground.

Edit: I came back and deleted some stuff I wrote after this. I don't want to get anybody stirred up.

[dollfus46]

Our church has been going through what the "official" stand of our affiliation on various issues is. I was surprised about how controversial some things were. I would say if you didn't question anything your pastor said, that would be dangerous ground.

Edit: I came back and deleted some stuff I wrote after this. I don't want to get anybody stirred up.

I think, in order to prove me wrong or make me look like a idiot, some people here take things too far. I can understand a difference in interpretation but one that is offensive is in another ballpark altogether. Let's be reasonable here. Pastor tells me I'm going to hell if I don't embrace Homosexuals, I'm leaving. Or tells me Blacks are black because God wants them punished. I'm leaving. Or if I don't prove my love of God and have God's protection by handling vipers, I'm leaving. My pastor tells me Eve may have eaten a peach instead of an apple, I'll probably hang around even though I think it was an olive, actually. I'm not sure apples grow well in the desert. Geeeez.

[SueScribe]

I'm BAAAAA-aaa-kkkkkkk !!

Did ya'll hear? Pennsylvania set a RECORD for NEW VOTER registration, AND 40,000 Republicans swapped parties, ta-boot. None of that "Rush told me to do it" swapping, because in Pennsylvania, once one swaps - that's a done deal through the General.

HAH !!

. . . how the he!! did it get so HOT down here all of a sudden?

Sue

[dollfus46]

I'm BAAAAA-aaa-kkkkkkk !!



. . . how the he!! did it get so HOT down here all of a sudden?

Sue
I heard you were a cold hearted woman, Sue. So when you left...........;)

[jojobeans1120]

I've got to say, I watched Hillary Clinton give a speech and she really SCARES me to death! She's going to take this country DOWN if she's elected. If she gets the nomination, it is going to be b/c she has someone knocked off, or pulls out all of the stops in order to make certain she does. Obama really needs to come out swinging right now!!! He needs to take advantage of her lies about Bosnia and run with it. He seems like an overall nice guy, but it is TIME TO TAKE THE GLOVES OFF!!!!!!

[dollfus46]

I've got to say, I watched Hillary Clinton give a speech and she really SCARES me to death! She's going to take this country DOWN if she's elected. If she gets the nomination, it is going to be b/c she has someone knocked off, or pulls out all of the stops in order to make certain she does. Obama really needs to come out swinging right now!!! He needs to take advantage of her lies about Bosnia and run with it. He seems like an overall nice guy, but it is TIME TO TAKE THE GLOVES OFF!!!!!!
She's going to get it. She ain't still in for her health. She sees the numbers. She knows it's impossible to win. sooooooo. Why is she in? She has a plan. She is the devil incarnate. Ole elephant ears hasn't seen what's about to hit him yet.
I did find it odd, that his lies didn't get picked up, but hers did. I find it odd that people excuse his racist pastor and Obama's relationship but not Hillary's stupid exageration about Bosnia. Which is more harmful? Dems are trying to castrate McCain for speaking at Bob Jones U. but giving Obama a pass. I'm not bitching. I'm really totally baffled by it all.:confused:

[jojobeans1120]

She's going to get it. She ain't still in for her health. She sees the numbers. She knows it's impossible to win. sooooooo. Why is she in? She has a plan. She is the devil incarnate. Ole elephant ears hasn't seen what's about to hit him yet.
I did find it odd, that his lies didn't get picked up, but hers did. I find it odd that people excuse his racist pastor and Obama's relationship but not Hillary's stupid exageration about Bosnia. Which is more harmful? Dems are trying to castrate McCain for speaking at Bob Jones U. but giving Obama a pass. I'm not bitching. I'm really totally baffled by it all.:confused:

I've heard mention of McCain going to Bob Jones U once on Fox News (which is the only cable news channel I watch). They have run the mess with Obama's pastor IN THE GROUND! They're (and I'm sure other news networks) are STILL digging up crap this guy said. Obama given a pass? I think not. He's called the pastor's comments, "stupid." He's done all he can to make sure everyone knows that, although he might have been subjected to the comments and beliefs of Rev. Wright, he doesn't believe in them or support them. Given a pass? No way. I'm not a HUGE Obama fan, but I absolutely cannot stand Hillary. She's totally wrong for this nation and will ruin it completely. McCain, well, he's no better than the other two candidates in my eyes. He can be held accountable for his actions, and apparently those of another, just as Obama can. I have NO intention of voting for Obama, but I damn sure will not accept the fact that Hillary is going to bring hell onto Earth if she doesn't get her way. If the people of this country cannot see what she's doing, (stealing an election from the American people), then they're blind as hell. She will stop at nothing to make certain that she gets the nomination, and wins. I'm telling you guys, she's DANGEROUS!

[SueScribe]

Once upon a time, in a 1990s Galaxy, far, far away, I supported Bill Clinton and, by proxy, his wife. I vehemently defended Bill during the MonicaGate controversy, only to end wanting to take him out back behind the shed and beat the livin' H out of him for lying to not only opposing counsel during a deposition about his . . piccadillos . . but, more importantly for lying to ME and the rest of his faithful supporters who believed . . wanted to believe so desperately, that he had NOT fallen into the most ancient of all political traps - the Woman-Lusting Trap.

And now? It has become readily apparent to me what so many suggested in the 90s Galaxy, that the Clintons, both of them, en todo, will throw the Nation out with the bathwater, for self-interests.

Hillary Clinton is perfectly willing to disassemble her Party, throw it into chaos, and why? Because Hillary Clinton is more interested in Hillary Clinton than she is the Democratic Party or, for that matter, her own COUNTRY.

Barack Obama will not run her Bosnia Dream into the ground because all that does is fuel the divisive climate we're in right now, and for that reason alone, one should give him credit: He DOES put Country and, to a much less extent, Party, over his own selfish, self-serving delusions of grandeur.

I'm hearing, through a little bitty grapevine, that the DNC and Superdelegates are poised to END Ms. Clinton's Impossible Dream the moment the final primary ends in June. IF she had one shred of credibility, one ounce of true Patriotism, she'd end it herself, and not leave, slouching back to Upstate New York, with her gnarled tail between her discredited legs.

Sue

[jmb]

I'm BAAAAA-aaa-kkkkkkk !!

Did ya'll hear? Pennsylvania set a RECORD for NEW VOTER registration, AND 40,000 Republicans swapped parties, ta-boot. None of that "Rush told me to do it" swapping, because in Pennsylvania, once one swaps - that's a done deal through the General.

HAH !!

. . . how the he!! did it get so HOT down here all of a sudden?

Sue

Welcome back, Sue! :)

[jojobeans1120]

And now? It has become readily apparent to me what so many suggested in the 90s Galaxy, that the Clintons, both of them, en todo, will throw the Nation out with the bathwater, for self-interests.

Hillary Clinton is perfectly willing to disassemble her Party, throw it into chaos, and why? Because Hillary Clinton is more interested in Hillary Clinton than she is the Democratic Party or, for that matter, her own COUNTRY.


You couldn't be more correct! She could care less about this nation, or the people. She just wants to make history.

Barack Obama will not run her Bosnia Dream into the ground because all that does is fuel the divisive climate we're in right now, and for that reason alone, one should give him credit: He DOES put Country and, to a much less extent, Party, over his own selfish, self-serving delusions of grandeur

That's why I said, "he's too nice." He does seem to be genuinely concerned about the state of this country and the future of it.


I'm hearing, through a little bitty grapevine, that the DNC and Superdelegates are poised to END Ms. Clinton's Impossible Dream the moment the final primary ends in June. IF she had one shred of credibility, one ounce of true Patriotism, she'd end it herself, and not leave, slouching back to Upstate New York, with her gnarled tail between her discredited legs.

Sue


God I pray you're right!!! :clap::clap:

[dollfus46]

Once upon a time, in a 1990s Galaxy, far, far away, I supported Bill Clinton and, by proxy, his wife. I vehemently defended Bill during the MonicaGate controversy, only to end wanting to take him out back behind the shed and beat the livin' H out of him for lying to not only opposing counsel during a deposition about his . . piccadillos . . but, more importantly for lying to ME and the rest of his faithful supporters who believed . . wanted to believe so desperately, that he had NOT fallen into the most ancient of all political traps - the Woman-Lusting Trap.

And now? It has become readily apparent to me what so many suggested in the 90s Galaxy, that the Clintons, both of them, en todo, will throw the Nation out with the bathwater, for self-interests.

Hillary Clinton is perfectly willing to disassemble her Party, throw it into chaos, and why? Because Hillary Clinton is more interested in Hillary Clinton than she is the Democratic Party or, for that matter, her own COUNTRY.

Barack Obama will not run her Bosnia Dream into the ground because all that does is fuel the divisive climate we're in right now, and for that reason alone, one should give him credit: He DOES put Country and, to a much less extent, Party, over his own selfish, self-serving delusions of grandeur.

I'm hearing, through a little bitty grapevine, that the DNC and Superdelegates are poised to END Ms. Clinton's Impossible Dream the moment the final primary ends in June. IF she had one shred of credibility, one ounce of true Patriotism, she'd end it herself, and not leave, slouching back to Upstate New York, with her gnarled tail between her discredited legs.

Sue
I can appreciate how you feel about the Clintons. I feel the same way. These people are subhuman, power crazy do, say anything to be God. What I don't understand is Obama, "I wasn't there when the Good Rev. said these things. I didn't know about this stuff. When I was there he preached the gospel. He talked about Jesus. Helping other." Then he had to stand before everyone and say, "Welllllllll, I really did know. (i.e. I lied to the nation) I didn't let him speak at my announced candidacy because I knew he was a loose cannon. I'd heard his firey stuff before. (i.e. I sat in the pews and heard him. My children and my wife sat and heard him. I continued to go there for 20 years because I believe this racist chit.) Is Obama getting a pass? Sure he is. Is he being treated like David Duke was treated? No. No white man would still be allowed to even still be in the race, in my opinion. I'm not bitching. I'm just confused by it all.

[jojobeans1120]

Yeah, like JMB said," Welcome back."

[jojobeans1120]

I can appreciate how you feel about the Clintons. I feel the same way. These people are subhuman, power crazy do, say anything to be God. What I don't understand is Obama, "I wasn't there when the Good Rev. said these things. I didn't know about this stuff. When I was there he preached the gospel. He talked about Jesus. Helping other." Then he had to stand before everyone and say, "Welllllllll, I really did know. (i.e. I lied to the nation) I didn't let him speak at my announced candidacy because I knew he was a loose cannon. I'd heard his firey stuff before. (i.e. I sat in the pews and heard him. My children and my wife sat and heard him. I continued to go there for 20 years because I believe this racist chit.) Is Obama getting a pass? Sure he is. Is he being treated like David Duke was treated? No. No white man would still be allowed to even still be in the race, in my opinion. I'm not bitching. I'm just confused by it all.


Grant it, I was a lot younger and not into politics the way I am now, but wasn't David Duke spewing the hatred from HIS own mouth?

[SueScribe]

Grant it, I was a lot younger and not into politics the way I am now, but wasn't David Duke spewing the hatred from HIS own mouth?

You may not have been around when Mr. Duke was extolling the virtues of 'White Supremacy', but you just nailed the issue, square-on: Duke's vitriolic hate-mongering did not come from the mouth of his pastor (if he had one), but from his OWN mouth.

Sue

[CircusRide]

So it would be ok for David Duke to be in the clan and hold public office, as long as he didn't burn a cross in somebody's yard? Hmmm

[SueScribe]

. . . What I don't understand is Obama, "I wasn't there when the Good Rev. said these things. I didn't know about this stuff. When I was there he preached the gospel. He talked about Jesus. Helping other." Then he had to stand before everyone and say, "Welllllllll, I really did know. (i.e. I lied to the nation). . .

I'm sorry Doff, but he did not "lie to the nation." Obama said the man had NEVER spoken ill of anyone of any particular ethnic or racial background in his presence. I'm certain you've both seen the speech Obama gave, and read its text? If not, I can link you to the full text. Just let me know.

Now, then. I'm going to say something Obama hasn't said, or won't say, because any creature of politics already knows the answer as to why he stayed in that church (not why he JOINED, but why he stayed):

The Southside of Chicago is almost entirely Black. That particular district revolves around one or two (at most) Black "shakers&movers" churches, where everyone congregates to glad-hand, hear the Gospel, and, in a politician's case - garner support for his or her political goals.

It isn't any different than large Caucasian churches in major cities. There are multiple reasons for being part of Church A's "fellowship", when one is aiming for elective office. I dare say, the same holds true in Hattiesburg, for instance. Just read your next political flyer, when it comes in the mail, i.e. "life-long member of First Baptist Church of Hattiesburg".

Political Science often mixes and gain-says The Church, in all areas, through all racial, ethnic, local/societal boundaries.

It's gamesmanship, it's politics, it's how you collect a voting bloc, it's how you play The Game.

To cast Obama's continued relationship with a controversial (to some, not all, but SOME) Chicago church as somehow linking him to ALL the pastor's personal beliefs, is much like tearing Trent Lott apart because HIS pastor made a disturbing comment once upon a tme and Trent didn't immediately get up and leave, or . . NAME a politician, just name one - and the same rule could apply - including John McCain's open courting of anti-Catholic, anti-anything-but-what-I-think televangelists or that goofball from "Focus On The Family."

See? There's nothing personal in it for Obama. It has been, was, but will not continue to be once he is President -

PURE POLITICS.

Sue

[SueScribe]

So it would be ok for David Duke to be in the clan and hold public office, as long as he didn't burn a cross in somebody's yard? Hmmm

Your hypothetical's ends don't meet. Come back and say something that meets the relevance or substantially the same test, please?

[SueScribe]

Alrighty, then. Me & Mr. Jones are gone on the road to eat some decent seafood.

[CircusRide]

Your hypothetical's ends don't meet. Come back and say something that meets the relevance or substantially the same test, please?

Sure it does. If Obama fans are saying that "Obama didn't actually say God Damn America, his pastor did" then that's exactly like saying "David Duke didn't burn that cross in the yard, the grand wizard did". Either way, both are members of that racist group. Maybe Duke didn't think burning that cross was the right thing to do, but he didn't get out of the clan either. Same goes for Obama, he may not have agreed with it, but he's still a member of that group.
No difference.

[Conveyor Belt]

Did ya'll hear? Pennsylvania set a RECORD for NEW VOTER registration, AND 40,000 Republicans swapped parties, ta-boot. None of that "Rush told me to do it" swapping, because in Pennsylvania, once one swaps - that's a done deal through the General.

Help me out on this one Sue... I'm not following you. Are you saying that if a person is a registered Democrat, they cannot vote for a Republican in the general election? I don't know, so that's a legitimate question.

I understand that the primaries are split, but usually, in the general, you can vote for whomever you wish.

If so, what does it matter if they switched now? There aren't any major elections coming up from now til November anyhow...

I see 'Operation Chaos' at hand.

[mspolitics82]

I'm BAAAAA-aaa-kkkkkkk !! . . . how the he!! did it get so HOT down here all of a sudden? Sue


Weeellllllll , it wasn't that warm until you got back! Could it be the "hot air" syndrome? :laugh: (jk, of course)

[mspolitics82]

I'm sorry Doff, but he did not "lie to the nation." Obama said the man had NEVER spoken ill of anyone of any particular ethnic or racial background in his presence. I'm certain you've both seen the speech Obama gave, and read its text? If not, I can link you to the full text. Just let me know.

Now, then. I'm going to say something Obama hasn't said, or won't say, because any creature of politics already knows the answer as to why he stayed in that church (not why he JOINED, but why he stayed):

The Southside of Chicago is almost entirely Black. That particular district revolves around one or two (at most) Black "shakers&movers" churches, where everyone congregates to glad-hand, hear the Gospel, and, in a politician's case - garner support for his or her political goals.

It isn't any different than large Caucasian churches in major cities. There are multiple reasons for being part of Church A's "fellowship", when one is aiming for elective office. I dare say, the same holds true in Hattiesburg, for instance. Just read your next political flyer, when it comes in the mail, i.e. "life-long member of First Baptist Church of Hattiesburg".

Political Science often mixes and gain-says The Church, in all areas, through all racial, ethnic, local/societal boundaries.

It's gamesmanship, it's politics, it's how you collect a voting bloc, it's how you play The Game.

To cast Obama's continued relationship with a controversial (to some, not all, but SOME) Chicago church as somehow linking him to ALL the pastor's personal beliefs, is much like tearing Trent Lott apart because HIS pastor made a disturbing comment once upon a tme and Trent didn't immediately get up and leave, or . . NAME a politician, just name one - and the same rule could apply - including John McCain's open courting of anti-Catholic, anti-anything-but-what-I-think televangelists or that goofball from "Focus On The Family."

See? There's nothing personal in it for Obama. It has been, was, but will not continue to be once he is President -

PURE POLITICS.

Sue


Sue, I really admire your passion....but let me muddle through the mire of passion to a little clearer water here, please.

#1---Sure, politicians like to advertise their affiliation with a church....but most people who want to know this don't care HOW LONG a politician has been a member of a particular church as much as they want to know that the politician is church-affiliated. Agreed, the longer a politician stays in a church, the more it could benefit him, but not necessarily.

#2----This was not just an isolated comment that got this preacher into trouble and has caused people to question Obama's political intelligence, among other things. This preacher has been carrying on like this for years---not just "once upon a time", and Obama apparently was willing to raise his daughters under this man's teachings ----is that called "sacrificing" for political gain----I would surely hope not!!!! I think this more than any one issue is what has caused some Dem eyebrows to raise and heads to shake.

#3----Many of us believe he did "lie to the nation", in spite of his "smooth" speech; but, hey, why not justify that, too, like you did the pastor's remarks....after all, that's what politicians do, right----a little stretch of the truth every-now-and-then never hurts, now does it?

[Bluesman]

Sue, I really admire your passion....but let me muddle through the mire of passion to a little clearer water here, please.

#1---Sure, politicians like to advertise their affiliation with a church....but most people who want to know this don't care HOW LONG a politician has been a member of a particular church as much as they want to know that the politician is church-affiliated. Agreed, the longer a politician stays in a church, the more it could benefit him, but not necessarily.

#2----This was not just an isolated comment that got this preacher into trouble and has caused people to question Obama's political intelligence, among other things. This preacher has been carrying on like this for years---not just "once upon a time", and Obama apparently was willing to raise his daughters under this man's teachings ----is that called "sacrificing" for political gain----I would surely hope not!!!! I think this more than any one issue is what has caused some Dem eyebrows to raise and heads to shake.

#3----Many of us believe he did "lie to the nation", in spite of his "smooth" speech; but, hey, why not justify that, too, like you did the pastor's remarks....after all, that's what politicians do, right?
Oooooh you done did it now... she's gonna get you:smt118.... It's prolly gonna be almost as bad as it was when she tried to get me for calling Hillary a Femminazi... but now I think Sue has had a change of heart and has come around to thinking Hillary is a Femminazi herself... or at least I think she has come around.

[mspolitics82]

Sue,

Can you answer this question now.............I will understand if you cannot. Based on a poll I saw last night, a fair % (about 20% I think) of Obama supporters are saying they will vote for McCain if Hillary gets luck and gets the nomination.....what say you?

[mspolitics82]

Oooooh you done did it now... she's gonna get you:smt118....

Naahhhh!.....Sue secretly loves me....she just doesn't realize it, yet.

[SueScribe]

Sue,

Can you answer this question now.............I will understand if you cannot. Based on a poll I saw last night, a fair % (about 20% I think) of Obama supporters are saying they will vote for McCain if Hillary gets luck and gets the nomination.....what say you?

The same data, a Wall Street Journal/Gallup poll showed, on the surface of the polling, an even split among Democrats who say if their candidate fails to get the nomination, they'll vote for McCain. I think the number is 32%, for both Obama and Clinton.

What I say to that is this:

There are bruised egos and feelings among both ranks, the Clinton devotees and the Obama devotees. Both feel the other has played dirty politics, have enjoyed a "free ride" by the Press, and the grievances go on and on as this contest goes on and on. Digging deepe into that poll, the negatives of Clinton have risen and the negatives on Obama (among Democrats) has risen only slightly.

Personally, I believe that the discord and anger that vented itself upon Gallup and the Journal by registered Democrats is a reflection of the current state of unseemly affairs. There may be a few defectors in November, but, I maintain, that if the DNC, Pelosi, Gore, et al., do their job at the conclusion of the last primary in June, there will be a candidate, period. That will allow some Asexual Healing, Licking of Wounds, a reduction in day-to-day inflammatory, inciting to riot vengence on the parts of BOTH Obama and Clinton camps.

When the dust settles, and the Cumbayah of the Convention in August takes place, the Democratic Party will awaken from its long nightmarish time in political purgatory - aided and abetted and inflamed by an unconscionable National Media blitz that LOVES to keep the fires and ires burning, and the Party WILL come together behind the candidate chosen.

Why is this? No Democrat, not even the most pi$$ed-off in the controversy at hand, will vote for another four years of Bush-League Foreign and Domestic policies. None.

What the polls are reading now are far from realistic, far from solid this far out in the process. April is upon us. Then June. Then the End.

Ms. Clinton knows whereupon her bread is politically buttered. She is not that stupid. She can choose to bow out gracefully and raise Obama's hand on the Convention stage, rally her supporters behind him for the sole purpose of rejecting a third Bush term, and, believe me - the ducks will line up in a neat row.

Clintonians and Obamaites may quarrel now, may answer in anger when Gallup comes calling, but come November, come time to pull the lever or punch the ballot, or electronically mark the X beside John McCain's name?

Never in your wildest dreams will it happen. The notion of the oldest elected president in this country's history carrying on the failed policies of a dry-drunk lunatic for another four years, with the stakes as high as they are, both domestically and internationally, it won't wash in the Democratic Party. It just will not.

That's Sue's Take.

[jojobeans1120]

Has anyone seen this "Rev." Manning that called Obama trash because he had a white mother????

[mspolitics82]

Has anyone seen this "Rev." Manning that called Obama trash because he had a white mother????


Yes, I posted something earlier about this..........youtube has several clips of this Harlem preacher ---excerpts from his sermons......just type in
Rev. Manning on www.youtube.com (http://www.youtube.com)

Quite interesting to say the least.......not for viewing by liberals! Although, I must say, I do not condone some of what he says from the "pulpit".....now, outside of the pulpit may be a different thing....but, he does go over the line once or twice whether behind or in front of the pulpit.

[jojobeans1120]

This dude is a racist and as much of a fruitcake as Mr. Wright!!!!

[jojobeans1120]

This is the one I saw, but there are several others where he's going off on a rant and calling names, etc...


YouTube - Obama's Bra 54 Double &quot;D&quot;

[Fire Extinguisher]

Can anyone say what their (and I mean all three) "plans" are its one thing to rant and rave that you are going to 'fix' healthcare (which aint really broke IMO) and provide 30 billion for this or that...... HOW are you going to do it? AND Where is the money going to come from?

[dollfus46]

Has anyone seen this "Rev." Manning that called Obama trash because he had a white mother????
If I was Obama, I'd seek him out and whip his ass to a fair the well.

[dollfus46]

Ms. Clinton knows whereupon her bread is politically buttered. She is not that stupid. She can choose to bow out gracefully and raise Obama's hand on the Convention stage, rally her supporters behind him for the sole purpose of rejecting a third Bush term, and, believe me - the ducks will line up in a neat row.

Clintonians and Obamaites may quarrel now, may answer in anger when Gallup comes calling, but come November, come time to pull the lever or punch the ballot, or electronically mark the X beside John McCain's name?

.

I think you give the Clintons' waaaay too much credit for decency and loyalty to the Democrat Party. I think Hillary is a mean evil, spiteful razor tot'n woman and isn't afraid to use it. But we'll see.

[Elle May]

Can anyone say what their (and I mean all three) "plans" are its one thing to rant and rave that you are going to 'fix' healthcare (which aint really broke IMO) and proved 30 billion for this or that...... HOW are you going to do it? AND Where is the money going to come from?

China.

[Bluesman]

Obama is the most liberal person running for Pres. and with his economic policies and tax policies he will impose will definitely be "Change we can believe in" cause that is exactly what we will have, "change" in our pockets cause there damn sure won't be no dollars there. And you can believe that. All this freebie shit he wants to give out will have to be paid by someone and that someone is your average joe blow worker that has a job and is not sucking the system dry with entitlements. He claims America is the Greatest country in the world yet he is running on "change" Just like Ted said on the radio this morning, "If he says it is the Greatest Country in the World, then why is he wanting to change?" Change is not always positive and can very well take us BACKWARDS.... The only entitlement program that I'm in support of is the entitlement I have to vote for someone, anyone, anyone at all that would not take us backwards as far as increasing entitlement programs... I'm not going to be an accessory to someone trying to rob me... I won't do it. So, if Obama wants my vote, I would strongly suggest that he not hold his liberal breath.

[fuzzis]

Puh-leaze. Seriously. Congress can't get jack done as is. Bush couldn't get jack done with his own party held both houses of Congress. Do you seriously think a whole lot is going to happen with the margins as slim as they are now?

The hysteria is certainly amusing to watch, though. :smt023

[Bluesman]

Puh-leaze. Seriously. Congress can't get jack done as is. Bush couldn't get jack done with his own party held both houses of Congress. Do you seriously think a whole lot is going to happen with the margins as slim as they are now?

The hysteria is certainly amusing to watch, though. :smt023
Well daggum, if someone says something about Obama's character or his church/pastor of 20 years beliefs they get told that they are being trivial and they need to talk about why they wouldn't vote for him based on his policies.... okay, then we say something about his policies or proposed plans and why we wouldn't want to vote for him and then get accused of being hysterical and we are now amusing:smt102

So... if your logic of the pres. not being able to influence or push legislation is true then why even bother with the whole presidential campaign/election process? True nothing seems to be able to get done now cause you have 2 friggin polar opposites in charge of the Executive branch and legislative branches of government... They would rather get in a pissing contest than comprimise and accomplish anything... So, if we were to elect a lib to compliment the lib ideologies of Pelosi/Byrd/Kennedy then you can bet your ass we will have one hell of an entitlement swing to the left and the rest of us will be left holding the empty wallets/purses for having to pay for all their pandering.

[fuzzis]

Well daggum, if someone says something about Obama's character or his church/pastor of 20 years beliefs they get told that they are being trivial to talk about why they wouldn't vote for him based on his policies.... okay, then we say something about his policies or proposed plans and why we wouldn't want to vote for him and then get accused of being hysterical and we are now amusing:smt102

So... if your logic of the pres. not being able to influence or push legislation is true then why even bother with the whole presidential campaign/election process? True nothing seems to be able to get done now cause you have 2 friggin polar opposites in charge of the Executive branch and legislative branches of government... They would rather get in a pissing contest than comprimise and accomplish anything... So, if we were to elect a lib to compliment the lib ideologies of Pelosi/Byrd/Kennedy then you can bet your ass we will have one hell of an entitlement swing to the left and the rest of us will be left holding the empty wallets/purses for having to pay for all their pandering.

Yeah, not quite. We had a Republican controlled congress and a Republican president who couldn't get jack done. Anyone remember the whole privatize social security thing? The rest of Bush's agenda? The margins in both houses are too slim to make much of anything happen.

My point is the country is NOT going to go to hell in a handbasket regardless of who gets elected. Object to his policies all you want. But the hysteria? The "scared to death" :ohnoes: rhetoric that people are talking about...amusing. Completely and totally amusing. It was amusing in the run up to the 2000 and 2004 elections; it remains amusing.

[Conveyor Belt]

If Obama/Hillary/McCain are elected in 2008, expect a Republican takeover in 2010 of the congress... at least one house, if not both.

[dollfus46]

If Obama/Hillary/McCain are elected in 2008, expect a Republican takeover in 2010 of the congress... at least one house, if not both.
I'm not sure I can tolerate any of them. I'm getting a belly full of all lying low life politicians.

[Fire Extinguisher]

I'm not sure I can tolerate any of them. I'm getting a belly full of all lying low life politicians.


MEGA DITTO

[wilebill]

I'm not sure I can tolerate any of them. I'm getting a belly full of all lying low life politicians."Politicians and diapers should be changed often - and for the same reason" - anon

[SueScribe]

Has anyone seen this "Rev." Manning that called Obama trash because he had a white mother????

Lovely, isn't it? Obama can't catch a break: He's damned if he's Black and damned if he's White, and tragically enough: He's both.

Can anyone say what their (and I mean all three) "plans" are its one thing to rant and rave that you are going to 'fix' healthcare (which aint really broke IMO) and provide 30 billion for this or that...... HOW are you going to do it? AND Where is the money going to come from?

We could always ask China for mo' money, since they have basically funded George's Excellent War Adventure. However, my best guess that eliminating the Bush Tax Break For Biggest Richest, will prove to be a fiscally neutral way, for one, and for another: Bringing an end to mediating a Civil War in the Mideast would MORE than pay for fixing healthcare, among many many other things.

Obama is the most liberal person running for Pre . . . .

That old GOP one-liner has lost its appeal and relevance under a sitting President who, by any definition of the word, has been VERY liberal with the taxpayers' money . . to some folk, at least, and in some policies, at least. George Bush, Liberal. (Not your typical "tax and spend" type liberal, but a "tax give-away and spend anyway" liberal.)

If Obama/Hillary/McCain are elected in 2008, expect a Republican takeover in 2010 of the congress... at least one house, if not both.

I see just the opposite happening. Check a few state polls for a glimpse of the future in Congress, i.e. Iowa, Nebraska, Wyoming, Virginia, Arizona.

Well daggum, if someone says something about Obama's character or his church/pastor of 20 years beliefs they get told that they are being trivial and they need to talk about why they wouldn't vote for him based on his policies.... okay, then we say something about his policies or proposed plans and why we wouldn't want to vote for him and then get accused of being hysterical and we are now amusing:smt102

I'm sorry, but I'm late to the Policy Arguments. Can you re-post them for me?

[EricStratton]

Sue,

You make me wanna do bad things

[jojobeans1120]

According to a Gallup Poll released Friday, Obama leads nationally with 50 percent to the New York senator’s 42 percent, his biggest lead in that survey since the Wright controversy broke.


:clap:

[jojobeans1120]

Obama Scores Again



http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/30/obama-endorsed-by-minn-sen-amy-klobuchar/







WASHINGTON — Barack Obama has gained another superdelegate. Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar endorsed her Illinois colleague Sunday night, saying in a statement that Obama “has inspired an enthusiasm and idealism that we have not seen in this country in a long time.”

[mspolitics82]

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Barack Obama has gained another superdelegate. Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar endorsed her Illinois colleague Sunday night, saying in a statement that Obama “has inspired an enthusiasm and idealism that we have not seen in this country in a long time.”


"Enthusiasm and idealism" for sure!!!!!! Let's see....I will vote for this guy because he is enthusiastic and idealistic.....but he really has not given America a plan has he? But, hey, what the heck, at least he wants CHANGE!!!! But then, don't all the other candidates, also???

[fuzzis]

But then, don't all the other candidates, also???

Nope. McCain is running for Bush's third term. :kekeke:

[hendrixfreak70]

I think just about everyone here who considers themselves a "Republican" dislikes McCain.

[drake]

I think just about everyone here who considers themselves a "Republican" dislikes McCain.

I am a Republican, and I think McCain is alright. He wouldn't be my first, or even second or third choice, but I wouldn't say I "dislike" him.

[mspolitics82]

Nope. McCain is running for Bush's third term. :kekeke:


Either you are just joking, or you have not heard him speak lately. McCain, too, is talking about change...they ALL are....that's the favorite word of just about any politician who wants a seat he doesn't currently hold.

[Bluesman]

Either you are just joking, or you have not heard him speak lately. McCain, too, is talking about change...they ALL are....that's the favorite word of just about any politician who wants a seat he doesn't currently hold.
Change is good... I change my drawers bout everyday whether I need to or not....

Change can also be negative though... The new drawers could rub you raw or ride up your crack, so you have to be careful what you look for when you are looking for a change.:-D

[mspolitics82]

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Barack Obama has gained another superdelegate. Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar endorsed her Illinois colleague Sunday night, saying in a statement that Obama “has inspired an enthusiasm and idealism that we have not seen in this country in a long time.”


I had rather have REALISM than "idealism", especially from the person who wants to be the leader of the USA.

[CircusRide]

I saw where Obama was in PA this morning, milking a cow. It's my understanding he stopped when he realized only white milk was coming from the cow. He promptly requested a chocolate milk cow.

[Reason]

...but he really has not given America a plan has he?

He has written several books, and his specific plans as president are available on his Web site.

For instance, this is his fiscal plan (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/fiscal/ObamaPolicy_Fiscal.pdf).

[mspolitics82]

He has written several books, and his specific plans as president are available on his Web site.

For instance, this is his fiscal plan (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/fiscal/ObamaPolicy_Fiscal.pdf).



Thank you for the info.......this is the first time I have seen anything in print...of course, I will admit, I have not read his books or gone to a website....I keep listening to speeches the candidates make....and I just don't hear it in his speeches....perhaps he will actually lay it out to the public at or after the Dem Convention.

However, I must say, from just looking at a little bit of the fiscal plan....I already see some big problems...such as CUT PORK BARRELL SPENDING.....his plan does not eliminate it, just examines it before approval.....with our debt, you are gonna have to just about eliminate it for a long while.

I knew I would not agree with his plans....he is too liberal for sure, but I thank you for the info, nonetheless.

[aaron]

Obama's economic policy really sucks. He wants to bail out everyone that borrowed money for houses when they shouldn't have. So, basically, I pay for someone else's stupid decision. It's very much a Democrat-like policy, but I just thought he was different for some reason.

[hendrixfreak70]

None of them are. They all blow our money.

[SueScribe]

"Enthusiasm and idealism" for sure!!!!!! Let's see....I will vote for this guy because he is enthusiastic and idealistic.....but he really has not given America a plan has he? But, hey, what the heck, at least he wants CHANGE!!!! But then, don't all the other candidates, also???

I'd recommend visiting his website, reading a few lines from two excellent books he's written, and basically, listening to him when he gives a major speech. On the other hand, Faux News probably doesn't cover him too much, do they (unless it's that looped clip of the ranting/raving preacher man)?

I think just about everyone here who considers themselves a "Republican" dislikes McCain.

I would lay odds on the Vegas table on that one. . .

I am a Republican, and I think McCain is alright. He wouldn't be my first, or even second or third choice, but I wouldn't say I "dislike" him.

See what I mean, Hen? Even in fourth place in Drake's choices for GOP nominees, he'll likely vote for him anyway, presumably. That's kinda like voting for the ugliest girl in third grade for Homecoming Queen. . . with minor differences, of course, i.e. the future of the Free World.

Either you are just joking, or you have not heard him speak lately. McCain, too, is talking about change...they ALL are....that's the favorite word of just about any politician who wants a seat he doesn't currently hold.

Yes, but McCain's change is carried in his pocket, or, even more dire - change for the WORST (yes, oh yes, under McCain it WOULD get worse, but let's not worry our pretty little heads about that Impossible Dream - Thank God).

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Barack Obama has gained another superdelegate. Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar endorsed her Illinois colleague Sunday night, saying in a statement that Obama “has inspired an enthusiasm and idealism that we have not seen in this country in a long time.”


I had rather have REALISM than "idealism", especially from the person who wants to be the leader of the USA.

Check out his policies, plainly posted on his website and reported and spoke about over and over, at least on most cable channels (not Faux News, I'm talking REAL journalism). If you're all for Mess-o-potamia ad infinitim, by all means, pull the lever for the man. Hope you don't have any draft age children or grandchildren - now or into the foreseeable 100 years.

Obama's economic policy really sucks. He wants to bail out everyone that borrowed money for houses when they shouldn't have. So, basically, I pay for someone else's stupid decision. It's very much a Democrat-like policy, but I just thought he was different for some reason.

Well, Aaron, I'd rather see struggling Middle America "bailed out" (NOT speculators, but people who, by ignorance or flim-flam, bought what they believed would be The American Dream) than the 30 BILLION recently doled out in your taxpayer money to pay for Bear-Stearns' stupid decisions when, IMHO, you'd expect a time-worn-and-tested Financial Giant to have better sense than make "stupid decisions."

John McCain's answer to the housing crisis (which impacts the value of YOUR home, by the way) is:

Let Them Eat Cake. (While fully endorsing the give-a-ways to the rich and powerful, like Bear-Stearns and the other "struggling" banks on Wall Street and elsewhere, like subsidies for the oil companies - now THERE is a hard-luck case if ever there was one, huhn?

Sue

[mspolitics82]

I'd recommend visiting his website, reading a few lines from two excellent books he's written, and basically, listening to him when he gives a major speech. On the other hand, Faux News probably doesn't cover him too much, do they (unless it's that looped clip of the ranting/raving preacher man)?



I would lay odds on the Vegas table on that one. . .



See what I mean, Hen? Even in fourth place in Drake's choices for GOP nominees, he'll likely vote for him anyway, presumably. That's kinda like voting for the ugliest girl in third grade for Homecoming Queen. . . with minor differences, of course, i.e. the future of the Free World.



Yes, but McCain's change is carried in his pocket, or, even more dire - change for the WORST (yes, oh yes, under McCain it WOULD get worse, but let's not worry our pretty little heads about that Impossible Dream - Thank God).



Check out his policies, plainly posted on his website and reported and spoke about over and over, at least on most cable channels (not Faux News, I'm talking REAL journalism). If you're all for Mess-o-potamia ad infinitim, by all means, pull the lever for the man. Hope you don't have any draft age children or grandchildren - now or into the foreseeable 100 years.



Well, Aaron, I'd rather see struggling Middle America "bailed out" (NOT speculators, but people who, by ignorance or flim-flam, bought what they believed would be The American Dream) than the 30 BILLION recently doled out in your taxpayer money to pay for Bear-Stearns' stupid decisions when, IMHO, you'd expect a time-worn-and-tested Financial Giant to have better sense than make "stupid decisions."

John McCain's answer to the housing crisis (which impacts the value of YOUR home, by the way) is:

Let Them Eat Cake. (While fully endorsing the give-a-ways to the rich and powerful, like Bear-Stearns and the other "struggling" banks on Wall Street and elsewhere, like subsidies for the oil companies - now THERE is a hard-luck case if ever there was one, huhn?

Sue



:smt014

[hendrixfreak70]

To sum it all up: McCain panders to the big business side, which means more war, less jobs. Obama wants to give money to everybody because he believes that is the role of the government. Hillary, that is too easy. Where's the Constitution in all of this? The role of government is not to raise you from cradle to grave, but only to protect you from encroachments of freedom. We aren't supposed to be in 100 years worth of wars either. 2008 will likely be the last year as a Republic and the first year as an official empire.

[SueScribe]

To sum it all up: McCain panders to the big business side, which means more war, less jobs. Obama wants to give money to everybody because he believes that is the role of the government. Hillary, that is too easy.

Obama has no plan nor platform to "give money to everybody because he believes that is the role of government." In fact, early into his candidacy he alienated part of his constituency because he stated, as a matter of record, that people ". . .must help themselves . . . and own their responsibilities . . ." that it is NOT government's role to make the irresponsibile "responsible" nor act as a bottomless source of monies for people who HAVE to make their own way and become part of the whole in America's self-sufficiency.

Where's the Constitution in all of this?

Presently? In intensive care.

. . . The role of government is . . .to protect you from encroachments of freedom.

See comment, re: location of Constitution.

2008 will likely be the last year as a Republic and the first year as an official empire.

Some say, for the past 7-plus years, this nation has conducted itself precisely as if it's "an official empire."