Obama `08

[Bluesman]

Obama has no plan nor platform to "give money to everybody because he believes that is the role of government." In fact, early into his candidacy he alienated part of his constituency because he stated, as a matter of record, that people ". . .must help themselves . . . and own their responsibilities . . ." that it is NOT government's role to make the irresponsibile "responsible" nor act as a bottomless source of monies for people who HAVE to make their own way and become part of the whole in America's self-sufficiency.

Yes, it is the responisbility of the individuals and not the govt. However, saying it in one breath then offering to cover everyone's student loans kinda contradicts itself.

[aaron]

Well, Aaron, I'd rather see struggling Middle America "bailed out" (NOT speculators, but people who, by ignorance or flim-flam, bought what they believed would be The American Dream) than the 30 BILLION recently doled out in your taxpayer money to pay for Bear-Stearns' stupid decisions when, IMHO, you'd expect a time-worn-and-tested Financial Giant to have better sense than make "stupid decisions."

John McCain's answer to the housing crisis (which impacts the value of YOUR home, by the way) is:

Let Them Eat Cake. (While fully endorsing the give-a-ways to the rich and powerful, like Bear-Stearns and the other "struggling" banks on Wall Street and elsewhere, like subsidies for the oil companies - now THERE is a hard-luck case if ever there was one, huhn?

Sue

If you don't think Obama would have bailed out Bear Stearns, the wool has been pulled over your eyes. It's the been the policy of the U.S. to bailout big business for 30 years now because they do not want the economy to crash, stock markets fall, and a lot more than $30 billion is lost. Republicans have done it, and Democrats have done it. It's just that the Democrats policy is to bailout everyone involved. Let's bailout business, let's bailout homeowners, let's bailout the poor and suffering who own better homes than I do. That's why I say that none of the candidates are really effective. No one wants to let capitalism take it's course, because no one wants to admit there are winners and losers in a free market. Obama is just as bad if not worse.

[Conveyor Belt]

To sum it all up: McCain panders to the big business side, which means more war, less jobs. Obama wants to give money to everybody because he believes that is the role of the government. Hillary, that is too easy. Where's the Constitution in all of this? The role of government is not to raise you from cradle to grave, but only to protect you from encroachments of freedom. We aren't supposed to be in 100 years worth of wars either. 2008 will likely be the last year as a Republic and the first year as an official empire.

Your pessimism is depressing.

[dollfus46]

The U.S. shouldn't be bailing anybody out. Not businesses not morgage companies not homeowners. Not my problem.

[CircusRide]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080402/ap_on_el_pr/obama_gore

Great news! (SIGH):smt009

Democrat Barack Obama said Wednesday he talks regularly with former vice president Al Gore and would consider putting him in a Cabinet-level position or higher.


The only position higher than a Cabinet post is vice president.

[hendrixfreak70]

The U.S. shouldn't be bailing anybody out. Not businesses not morgage companies not homeowners. Not my problem.

See Dollfus, I completely and totally agree. However, why don't we, as conservatives, use the same rubirc when assessing the situation in Iraq?

[hendrixfreak70]

Your pessimism is depressing.

My bad. :cry: I see it as being bleak. I might move to New Hampshire or some shit.

[Bluesman]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080402/ap_on_el_pr/obama_gore

Great news! (SIGH):smt009

.
I can think of a cabinet I would like to stuff al gore in.

[Bluesman]

made out of pine.:-D

[Luvia]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080402/..._pr/obama_gore (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080402/ap_on_el_pr/obama_gore)


Democrat Barack Obama said Wednesday he talks regularly with former vice president Al Gore and would consider putting him in a Cabinet-level position or higher

The only position higher than a Cabinet post is vice president
.
WHAT?! Wow...that's really bad. Al Gore is the biggest idiot I've ever seen. Total tool. This is hysterical. And scary...

[dollfus46]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080402/..._pr/obama_gore (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080402/ap_on_el_pr/obama_gore)

.
WHAT?! Wow...that's really bad. Al Gore is the biggest idiot I've ever seen. Total tool. This is hysterical. And scary...
That's a word I haven't heard in awhile but it fits Gore to a "Tee". Tool. :smt023 Of course, Obama is just floating a baloon to see what reaction he gets from the suggestion I think.

[mspolitics82]

That's a word I haven't heard in awhile but it fits Gore to a "Tee". Tool. :smt023 Of course, Obama is just floating a baloon to see what reaction he gets from the suggestion I think.


Exactly!!!

[Bluesman]

My question would be which cabinet position is it that is in charge of global warming hype and hysteria??? I wasn't aware of one, so does that mean that if Al don't get the V.P. bid Obama will "create" another position for him to expel all his hot, CO2 filled air????

I can see it now... The dept. of global warming has issued an ORANGE alert today due to internet chatter indicating that at least one citizen will leave their engine running and a bathroom light on... and a last minute tip that someone will be burning leaves... once again the dept. of global warming has issued an ORANGE alert...:laugh:

[Bluesman]

Now that will be a pair... Obama and Gore... One is full of shit and the other hot air so I guess together they will just be a Wet Loaded Fart:-D

[Luvia]

I wonder if being Al Gore's buddy is the type of "change" his supporters are all excited about.

[Tupaclives]

Barack be the man! He goin to get us all a check!

[SueScribe]

If you don't think Obama would have bailed out Bear Stearns, the wool has been pulled over your eyes. It's the been the policy of the U.S. to bailout big business for 30 years now because they do not want the economy to crash, stock markets fall, and a lot more than $30 billion is lost.

Perhaps the economy needs to crash. I recall, with clarity, Richard Clark's testimony in front of the 9/11 Commission, when asked why he believed no one in the Bush Administration would grant him access to Condi Rice nor the President when Clark saw bells going off on an imminent threat from Bin Laden. His answer: "Sometimes, Senator, it takes a lot of body bags."

If it is not the role of the Federal government to protect the least among its citizenry, then I submit that protecting and bailing out and subsidizing the GREATEST among its corporations is certainly not within Government's purview.

Therefore, I take the McCain Solution, vis-a-vis the foreclosure crisis, as far as the "economy collapsing":

Let us eat cake. Let the Capitalistic, Free Market system untangle its own bad, ill-informed mistakes, WITHOUT government, i.e. taxpayer, intervention.

The country may well need soup kitchens and catching freight cars for jobs out West. Maybe more than a few Wall Steet tycoons need to bail out of their high-rise office windows.

Maybe we need thousands of "body bags" before the people who believe they are economically "safe" find out otherwise.

My question would be which cabinet position is it that is in charge of global warming hype and hysteria??? I wasn't aware of one, so does that mean that if Al don't get the V.P. bid Obama will "create" another position for him to expel all his hot, CO2 filled air????

The Department of the Interior used to be the Cabinet level position, but I believe it's now all under the auspices of the EPA.

I can see it now... The dept. of global warming has issued an ORANGE alert today due to internet chatter indicating that at least one citizen will leave their engine running and a bathroom light on... and a last minute tip that someone will be burning leaves... once again the dept. of global warming has issued an ORANGE alert...:laugh:

Laugh on. While Iceland slips into the sea.

There is good news, however: If you live south of Hattiesburg, around Poplarville, for instance, you might become the proud owner of beach-front property.

Sue

[Tupaclives]

Damn, Dick Clark knew about Bin Laden? Man, dat dude is into everything.

[Conveyor Belt]

Sue, turn off the TV and read some peer reviewed journals on global warming. I'm not going to parse it out with you about it, but read both sides before you jump on the bandwagon.

And I agree that we should let the whole thing come down. Let it fall. We're propping it up with popsicle sticks, hoping no one will notice. I don't think it's government's role to bail out big business or bubba blue from bad decisions.

I don't see us in soup kitchens, though. Maybe some, but not all. Some of us have made wise decisions. I still have a place I can fall back to if it gets really bad. Let's hope it stays okay for the time being.

[dollfus46]

Laugh on. While Iceland slips into the sea.



Sue
Somewho I could see myself smile, while sitting in a lounge chair in Nevada and watching San Francisco slip into the sea.:smt118

[Bluesman]

Ever wonder why they call Greenland, Greenland??? Cause it used to be GREEN and they grew sheep there. You can't grow sheep there now very well cause it is too damn cold.

[Fire Extinguisher]

Ever wonder why they call Greenland, Greenland??? Cause it used to be GREEN and they grew sheep there. You can't grow sheep there now very well cause it is too damn cold.
Must be the GLOBAL WARMING!

[hendrixfreak70]

Must be the GLOBAL WARMING!

Yup. Gore is wrong, and an idiot.

[Bluesman]

Yup. Gore is wrong, and an idiot.
Yep, but he did invent the internet:laugh:.:bs:

[Reason]

Al Gore never claimed to have invented the Internet. (http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp)

[Tupaclives]

Al Gore been smoking the same crack pipe as his kid.

[dollfus46]

Al Gore never claimed to have invented the Internet. (http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp)

:smt015

[Bluesman]

Al Gore never claimed to have invented the Internet. (http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp)
Okay, so he created it. Basically saying pretty damn close to the EXACT same thing... To sum it up... He is saying that he delivered the goods when it came to the internet... So I think we all should take a moment and give praise to the allmighty hot air baloon, former V.P. and P. wannabe Al Baby Bore. Without him Dollfus none of this enlightenment we have here before us would be possible:-D We would still be using corded phones and a telegraph machine... I think it would be safe to assume that Gore is a has been... as in "Has Been Full of Shit for some time now.":smt023

[fuzzis]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brucedean/2325243363/

[SueScribe]

http://http://l.yimg.com/www.flickr.com/images/spaceball.gif

Fuzz. When I tried to pull up your link, my 'puter said 'page cannot be displayed." What's up? Is it good news, bad news, or just no'news'a'tall?

Sue

[fuzzis]

Fuzz. When I tried to pull up your link, my 'puter said 'page cannot be displayed." What's up? Is it good news, bad news, or just no'news'a'tall?

Sue

Sorry...it's a picture of Hillary and Obama in bed, with the caption "They Both Want To Be On Top". :laugh:

[SueScribe]

Sorry...it's a picture of Hillary and Obama in bed, with the caption "They Both Want To Be On Top". :laugh:

. . . :smt087 . . . oh. Well, that explains it: Ever since Amanda set my Parental Controls on this machine, anything with a bed in it, a donkey, two or more dogs, and/or shirtless men and bottomless women, won't show on the little screen.

[fuzzis]

Try it now, Sue.

[SueScribe]

Try it now, Sue.

Try what? :ohnoes:

[SueScribe]

I clicked it again, and it still won't work. I'm telling you - my daughter sabotaged this machine, and told me she was doing it BECAUSE I was her parent.

[SueScribe]

Senate Foreign Relations and Armed Services Committees are NOW holding hearings on Iraq. MSNBC and CNN are carrying the coverage LIVE.

[hendrixfreak70]

Sue I admire your passion for Obama, however, if you really believe he will pull us out of Iraq then I feel sorry for you. I really do. I honest to God wonder what would have had happened if Ron Paul would have gotten the Rep nod and then the Presidency and said "ok Congress if you put forth a bill authorizing troop removal I will sign it today" and they didn't do it. Congress is full of liars too. At least the Republicans lie about WMDs, the Dems lie about wanting the troops out, or else we would be.

[mking67]

Obama or Hilary, either way I fear McCain will be elected. At least McCain seems to be a decent person...

[hendrixfreak70]

Obama or Hilary, either way I fear McCain will be elected. At least McCain seems to be a decent person...

As you will likely find out I am an equal oppurtunity hater of most politicians. McCain cheated on and subsequently left his disabled wife (while he too was disabled). There is plenty more but I highly suspect it doesn't matter.

[dollfus46]

Obama or Hilary, either way I fear McCain will be elected. At least McCain seems to be a decent person...
What scares the hell out of me is that one of the three might get elected.:smt118 I did hear that numbnut, Dick Morris, make sense as to why Hillary isn't getting out of the race.....If she admits defeat and withdraws, the funds dry up and she and Billy Boy are stuck with the campaign debt personally. I ono. Made sense to me. Obama is already spending three to one more in PA. She hasn't the funds.

[Conveyor Belt]

No matter who wins, the country will have a Democrat in the white house.

[Fire Extinguisher]

No matter who wins, the country will have a Democrat in the white house.

Now CB... are you saying our good patriotic Vietnam Vet is a wolf in sheeps clothing?

[hendrixfreak70]

Now CB... are you saying our good patriotic Vietnam Vet is a wolf in sheeps clothing?

I'll take it a step further, I will say that almost 6 years in a Vietnamese prison can make a person pretty much whatever they want him to be.

[Fire Extinguisher]

I'll take it a step further, I will say that almost 6 years in a Vietnamese prison can make a person pretty much whatever they want him to be.


WOW. Let us hope not.

[Conveyor Belt]

Now CB... are you saying our good patriotic Vietnam Vet is a wolf in sheeps clothing?

IMO, if John McCain had paid more attention in flight school (he graduated at the bottom) and been a better pilot, he probably wouldn't be in the position he's in today. God know's he's milked his POW status for everything he could.

Now, I'm not saying that we shouldn't honor vets, and POW's especially, but it seems that every time something comes up, his former POW status is thrown up there like some magic force field.

McCain wanted to switch parties after the deadlocked Senate elections. Jeffords beat him to it.

[Luvia]

Personally...I don't mind him bringing up his POW status. And I'm not a McCain fan politically. All politicians speak of their accomplishments (real or otherwise) to try to win over the public.

Being a POW...well...I'm sorry, but that seems pretty life-defining to me. He has every right to talk about it...regardless of what kind of pilot he was. To me, that is just irrelevant. I don't put him on a pedestal because of it, but I appreciate any person who serves our country...no matter how smart, talented, etc...

I don't really understand why some people want to belittle six years as a POW. I think that might just have a major defining influence on me.

Maybe I am just missing something. I can't stand to hear any of them brag about what rock stars they are...but the POW thing doesn't bother me in the slightest. Six years. Imagine losing six years.

[Conveyor Belt]

Personally...I don't mind him bringing up his POW status. And I'm not a McCain fan politically. All politicians speak of their accomplishments (real or otherwise) to try to win over the public.

Being a POW...well...I'm sorry, but that seems pretty life-defining to me. He has every right to talk about it...regardless of what kind of pilot he was. To me, that is just irrelevant. I don't put him on a pedestal because of it, but I appreciate any person who serves our country...no matter how smart, talented, etc...

I don't really understand why some people want to belittle six years as a POW. I think that might just have a major defining influence on me.

Maybe I am just missing something. I can't stand to hear any of them brag about what rock stars they are...but the POW thing doesn't bother me in the slightest. Six years. Imagine losing six years.

McCain using his POW status is, for me, the same as Hillary constantly droning on about being in the White House for 8 years already. So what? I'm happy for you, but it in no way prepares you for the Presidency of the United States. There are 1000's of other POW's out there and 1000's of other people who've spent 8 or more years in the White House. It's not a qualifier, so, I get tired of hearing it as a reason to vote for X person.

Again, I'm not belittling McCain's service to our country. I thank him for it. However, it doesn't put him 1st in line for the Presidency.

[chaz]

McCain using his POW status is, for me, the same as Hillary constantly droning on about being in the White House for 8 years already.

Although I am far removed from the incessant coverage of the campaign, I don't really recall (at least in the earlier stages) McCain "constantly droning on" about his POW status in the way Hillary does about her stint as First Lady.

He did use it effectively to his advantage when he first ran in AZ. Someone at a q&a accused him of being a carpetbagger. He said that he, as an Naval officer, hadn't the luxury of living in one place for a long time. Saying somthing like, "The longest time I've spent in one place was in Hanoi."

[mspolitics82]

McCain using his POW status is, for me, the same as Hillary constantly droning on about being in the White House for 8 years already. So what? I'm happy for you, but it in no way prepares you for the Presidency of the United States. There are 1000's of other POW's out there and 1000's of other people who've spent 8 or more years in the White House. It's not a qualifier, so, I get tired of hearing it as a reason to vote for X person.

Again, I'm not belittling McCain's service to our country. I thank him for it. However, it doesn't put him 1st in line for the Presidency.


Very well said! I must say, though, I have not heard him foam at the mouth too much lately about his service.....when the campaign first started, he included it in every speech---at least once!

[SueScribe]

Now CB... are you saying our good patriotic Vietnam Vet is a wolf in sheeps clothing?

Personally...I don't mind him bringing up his POW status. And I'm not a McCain fan politically. All politicians speak of their accomplishments (real or otherwise) to try to win over the public.

Being a POW...well...I'm sorry, but that seems pretty life-defining to me. He has every right to talk about it...regardless of what kind of pilot he was. To me, that is just irrelevant. I don't put him on a pedestal because of it, but I appreciate any person who serves our country...no matter how smart, talented, etc...

I don't really understand why some people want to belittle six years as a POW. I think that might just have a major defining influence on me.

Maybe I am just missing something. I can't stand to hear any of them brag about what rock stars they are...but the POW thing doesn't bother me in the slightest. Six years. Imagine losing six years.

Although I am far removed from the incessant coverage of the campaign, I don't really recall (at least in the earlier stages) McCain "constantly droning on" about his POW status in the way Hillary does about her stint as First Lady.

He did use it effectively to his advantage when he first ran in AZ. Someone at a q&a accused him of being a carpetbagger. He said that he, as an Naval officer, hadn't the luxury of living in one place for a long time. Saying somthing like, "The longest time I've spent in one place was in Hanoi."

I wonder:

Do you suppose we'll ever get of out Vietnam ? Once and for all ?

Nah. Not in my lifetime.

[dollfus46]

I wonder:

Do you suppose we'll ever get of out Vietnam ? Once and for all ?

Nah. Not in my lifetime.
I hope never, Sue. Brave men fought and died there. You seem quick to point out the mangled bodies of our brave in this war but want to forget about those from Viet Nam. Families were destroyed. I had friends and classmates killed, mangled and minds messed up from that war. Don't be so cute about a terrible war. I particularly don't appreciate it. I don't see you asking your flippant question about slavery.

[SueScribe]

I hope never, Sue. Brave men fought and died there. You seem quick to point out the mangled bodies of our brave in this war but want to forget about those from Viet Nam. Families were destroyed. I had friends and classmates killed, mangled and minds messed up from that war. Don't be so cute about a terrible war. I particularly don't appreciate it. I don't see you asking your flippant question about slavery.

Don't lecture me about Vietnam. One Word: Vietnam. I was married to a Lifer, lived through that "conflict", Air Cav, Ft. Knox, deployments, death, despair, f-'d up lives, MINE included. So, don't EVEN go there.

I repeat: WHEN the hell are we going to get OUT of Vietnam? You want me to tell you the Straight Talk Express about `Nam, Dollfus?

Your generation - THAT generation - is vicariously trying to "win" a war it could NOT win in thirteen miserable years, and you know something else, Dollufus? It wasn't because the pu##ies back home didn't "support the troops", it was because that damned war - JUST like this one - CANNOT be militarily "won." Not without millions of lives lost. MILLIONS. The Chinese were on the Northern doorstep in 'Nam. Cambodia, next door. Draftees dying by the dozens while Westmoreland lied his four-star TEETH out about casulaties on both sides.

Do NOT lecture me about a war that I was probably closer to - at least AS close to - as you were. Ten-Four?

[SueScribe]

. . . and one other damned thing:

Let's start the draft again, shall we? Let's send all the War-Mongering Neo-Cons into the sand, arm'em up and SHIP their comfortable a$$es OUT - starting tomorrow. Forget tax cuts, forget Wall Street. Put their war-loving a$$es on the front line and let's "win" this one, how about that?

But, no. As Mr. Five-Deferment-Himself Cheney said, "These [Iraq War Veterans] are volunteers. They knew the risk." Right-o, Mr. Coward. And your president, Mr. Bush? HE finally learned how to fly an airplane in the Texas Air National Guard that was not EVEN in service in `Nam. Fat chance that fat cat stood of being deployed.

Oh, that's right. He WAS deployed - to Alabama.

If you start hissing at me about Vietnam, I promise you, you're going to lose.

That's a promise.

[dollfus46]

I don't think so. I haven't lost to you yet. You're already all over the place ranting like you're killing snakes. I only had one point: Nam was drafted Americans sent to a hellish war by Kennedy and Johnson. They didn't ask to go but went. Let's not forget about them (get out of vietnam) for your political purposes.

[SueScribe]

I don't think so. I haven't lost to you yet. You're already all over the place ranting like you're killing snakes.

There are snakes I'd love nothing better than to kill.

by Kennedy[/i] and Johnson. They didn't ask to go but went. Let's not forget about them (get out of vietnam) for your political purposes.

John F. Kennedy had issued an Executive Directive roughly 2 months before his assassination in Dallas to pull the advisors AND the handful of combat troops deployed there to protect them. Check it out, any time you wish, in a history book, on-line. Run a Google check.

Two: Lyndon Johnson was driven out of office, i.e. "I shall not seek, nor shall I accept the nomination of my Party for the office of the President in 1968."

Three: Richard M. Nixon was elected on the pretense on bringing our troops home "with honor". He dragged his feet until thousands of OTHER lives were lost before the troops came home - WITHOUT honor - while my husband and I stood in our living room at Ft. Knox, he in starched fatigues, polished combat boots, me in horror, as we BOTH watched helicopters shoved over the sides of ships, and desperate nationals clinging to the skids of Hueys while the U. S. evacuated whom and what they could in the face of an advancing North Vietnamese Army.

And now? George W. Bush and Dickless Cheney want MORE brave men and women to die when the inevitable stares us in the National face.

Vietnam?? GET THE HELL over it.

SueScribe

P. S. Ah, yes - almost forgot the important part of my E-8 husband and I watching the horror that miserable morning: I was holding our young son in my arms, the boy he wanted to attend West Point, and I said - and THIS is a direct, never-to-be-forgotten quote:

"My baby will NEVER go to West Point. He will NEVER sacrifice his life for this, or anything remotely like this. Do you hear me??!!"

He did.

[Conveyor Belt]

I'm confused... or :zelfmoord... I just don't know...

What just happened... wait, don't try to explain it.

:zelfmoord.

[dollfus46]

There are snakes I'd love nothing better than to kill.



John F. Kennedy had issued an Executive Directive roughly 2 months before his assassination in Dallas to pull the advisors AND the handful of combat troops deployed there to protect them. Check it out, any time you wish, in a history book, on-line. Run a Google check.

Two: Lyndon Johnson was driven out of office, i.e. "I shall not seek, nor shall I accept the nomination of my Party for the office of the President in 1968."

Three: Richard M. Nixon was elected on the pretense on bringing our troops home "with honor". He dragged his feet until thousands of OTHER lives were lost before the troops came home - WITHOUT honor - while my husband and I stood in our living room at Ft. Knox, he in starched fatigues, polished combat boots, me in horror, as we BOTH watched helicopters shoved over the sides of ships, and desperate nationals clinging to the skids of Hueys while the U. S. evacuated whom and what they could in the face of an advancing North Vietnamese Army.

And now? George W. Bush and Dickless Cheney want MORE brave men and women to die when the inevitable stares us in the National face.

Vietnam?? GET THE HELL over it.

SueScribe

P. S. Ah, yes - almost forgot the important part of my E-8 husband and I watching the horror that miserable morning: I was holding our young son in my arms, the boy he wanted to attend West Point, and I said - and THIS is a direct, never-to-be-forgotten quote:

"My baby will NEVER go to West Point. He will NEVER sacrifice his life for this, or anything remotely like this. Do you hear me??!!"

He did.


Wasted breath. None of this has to do with my point. Ranting and raving like a woman possessed again. You're demanding I get over Vietnam, when you can't seem to get over Iraq. Let's get over Iraq too, and WWI, WWII. Forget the dead, the POW's. Don't want McCain to gain a leg up on your precious Obama who never was in harm's way. Obama is more important than those who served. Getting over Vietnam has nothing to do with Nixon, Chaney, Bush, nor your family standing at Ft. Knox watching TV.

[SueScribe]

Wasted breath.

Oh, yes. Wasted breath, and wasted time. It is far simpler to explain away the present by justifying the past and scaring the living hell out of this country, by whatever devious means possible. It's old Roman warfare: Divide and Conquer.

Thankfully enough for this great nation, there is a New Generation of Americans about to replace yours, mine, and the Swift Boat Vets For Truth who, like you and your ilk had just soon see an entire generation sacrified in the sands of Iraq, Iran and sink to the bottom of the Persian Gulf than to re-live the DEFEAT of Vietnam. Lay `em on the alter of forgotten gods of war, and opportunistic "war heroes" too old to know the difference between a jungle and a sand dune.

Most importantly, a New Generation are seizing this nation for themselves because they've seen the futility - the "wasted breath" - of the GOP slash & burn, fly and/or stand in front of a noble Flag used like a corporate logo, and they are sick and tired - bitter and disgusted - about empty rhetoric and "The Troops" who come home to live under bridges or spend their days sitting in over-crowded VA hospital waiting rooms. They are sick and tired and disgusted about military families living on food stamps, and most importantly:

They know exactly what the Middle East and its oil mean, and why their generation are called upon to die for a barrel of oil, or Dick Cheney's "adjusted gross income" of 3.1 million dollars, while they pay-out tuition loans for years beyond their graduation all the while the Big Boys of the Grand Old Party fork over 30 million to bail-out Bear Stearns.

Wasted breath. You finally got it right, Dollfus. So. Save it, swallow it, and get ready for another New Frontier. The time is upon us, and Thank Almighty God that it is.



The Chickens HAVE come home to rest, and they're sitting on John McCain's shoulders.

[Conveyor Belt]

Oh, yes. Wasted breath, and wasted time. It is far simpler to explain away the present by justifying the past and scaring the living hell out of this country, by whatever devious means possible. It's old Roman warfare: Divide and Conquer.

Thankfully enough for this great nation, there is a New Generation of Americans about to replace yours, mine, and the Swift Boat Vets For Truth who, like you and your ilk had just soon see an entire generation sacrified in the sands of Iraq, Iran and sink to the bottom of the Persian Gulf than to re-live the DEFEAT of Vietnam. Lay `em on the alter of forgotten gods of war, and opportunistic "war heroes" too old to know the difference between a jungle and a sand dune.

Most importantly, a New Generation are seizing this nation for themselves because they've seen the futility - the "wasted breath" - of the GOP slash & burn, fly and/or stand in front of a noble Flag used like a corporate logo, and they are sick and tired - bitter and disgusted - about empty rhetoric and "The Troops" who come home to live under bridges or spend their days sitting in over-crowded VA hospital waiting rooms. They are sick and tired and disgusted about military families living on food stamps, and most importantly:

They know exactly what the Middle East and its oil mean, and why their generation are called upon to die for a barrel of oil, or Dick Cheney's "adjusted gross income" of 3.1 million dollars, while they pay-out tuition loans for years beyond their graduation all the while the Big Boys of the Grand Old Party fork over 30 million to bail-out Bear Stearns.

Wasted breath. You finally got it right, Dollfus. So. Save it, swallow it, and get ready for another New Frontier. The time is upon us, and Thank Almighty God that it is.



The Chickens HAVE come home to rest, and they're sitting on John McCain's shoulders.

With all due respect, sue, comparing the casualties of Vietnam to Iraq is like comparing the casualties of WWII to Vietnam. It's not even the same thing.

[dollfus46]

With all due respect, sue, comparing the casualties of Vietnam to Iraq is like comparing the casualties of WWII to Vietnam. It's not even the same thing.
I'm tellin' ya. She hasn't grasped it yet. She's off on Socialism and New Deals now. Heh heh heh. Talks like people of her ilk are good and others are evil. I think she really believes that.:kekeke:

[Fire Extinguisher]

I wonder:

Do you suppose we'll ever get of out Vietnam ? Once and for all ?

Nah. Not in my lifetime.


Sue, they is still folks (on both sides) in the freaking Civil War!

[SueScribe]

Sue, they is still folks (on both sides) in the freaking Civil War!

:bhug:

In one simple sentence, FE, you've settled all arguments, disputes, debates, pros/cons, differences and indifferences -

All in one, simple extraordinarily insightful sentence.

God Bless America.

*Sue finds Springsteen CD, turns up volume on player . . . Glory Days . . *

Sing it, Bruce.

[SueScribe]

With all due respect, sue, comparing the casualties of Vietnam to Iraq is like comparing the casualties of WWII to Vietnam. It's not even the same thing.

:attack:

Are you going to San Fran-cisco ? (I wish I could find me one of them VW buses . . .)

[SueScribe]

I'm tellin' ya. She hasn't grasped it yet. She's off on Socialism and New Deals now. Heh heh heh. Talks like people of her ilk are good and others are evil. I think she really believes that.:kekeke:

Know what I believe, Dof? I believe . . .

I Believe. Evil doesn't exist, except the heartlessness of man. I Believe.

That you must be one ass-kicking old coot, or . . once upon time you were. Know something else? Me, too.:attack:

(I had a sex change operation, or . . . let's see, I think the socially correct name for it is . . "sexual reassignment". But. . don't tell me kids or husband, please?)

[dollfus46]

That you must be one ass-kicking old coot, or . . once upon time you were. Know something else? Me, too.:attack:
Thank you.....I think. And yes I never doubted you were.

[SueScribe]

MEMORANDUM - URGENT

TO: Senator Obama

FROM: SueScribe

Re: Jeremiah Wright Controversy(ies)

Date: April 29, 2008

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Sir, it is strongly suggested that your staff adverse-research with all deliberate speed your former pastor's present financial status, including, but not limited to, any advances received on his forthcoming book deal, and - with specificity - any new, large deposits made into offshore bank accounts in his and/or any family members' name(s).

Check the Bahamas, particularly, and watch for any changes in his lifestyle, or the lifestyles of his family over the next few weeks, i.e. new souped-up SUVs, European vacations, houses, boats, and all other such incidents of sudden, massive increases in personal wealth.

And, last but not least, stay on message and do NOT - repeat NOT - fall into the media-driven, reverend-fed trap of responding with particularity to the recent International Stage offered to your "former pastor" who, I suggest, you should beat-hell-out-of at your first private opportunity.

Sue

P. S. Catholocism might be a change for you to consider.

[EricStratton]

I watched the clips of the National Press Club circus, Sue.....Rev. Wright proved to be a total douche bag.....the Rev. High Minister of Douce Bagery....I think I'm the only person who believes that the more the Rev. talks, the better off Obama will be....He made a total ass of himself yesterday....I think Obama has handled it well so far, though I'm sure the Obama camp has the be tight as a nun's......girdle....

[SueScribe]

I watched the clips of the National Press Club circus, Sue.....Rev. Wright proved to be a total douche bag.....the Rev. High Minister of Douce Bagery....I think I'm the only person who believes that the more the Rev. talks, the better off Obama will be....He made a total ass of himself yesterday....I think Obama has handled it well so far, though I'm sure the Obama camp has the be tight as a nun's......girdle....

MSNBC has devoted two mornings to coverage of this "pastor-idiot" and his wink-wink comments about being "vice-president" perhaps, and the other incindiary comments he made at the press club, and the NAACP speech the day or two prior.

There is NO conceivable way to convince me that this self-centered, mean-spirited and contentious "pastor", who obviously has enough intelligence to string complex sentences together, did not and does not KNOW he may be hurting Obama's chances for the nomination and/or the presidency. That, I've concluded, is the idea. It HAS to be.

The only question remaining is, why?

Sudden wealth - how much DID the Clintons and/or the RNC pay him?

Revenge for Obama's disassociation with his hateful, divisive comments?

Both?

There is a REASON this crazy egomaniacal man is doing what he's doing right now, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with Barack Obama's rise to the presidency. NOTHING.

[EricStratton]

There is a REASON this crazy egomaniacal man is doing what he's doing right now, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with Barack Obama's rise to the presidency. NOTHING.

First of all, he is pastor of a large congregation, and many such pastors (red, yellow, black, and white) develop a God complex over a period of time....not all of them, but a lot.....Oh the stories I could tell of one such pastor....but I won't....(side note: it was discovered that said pastor was banging more than the pulpit, so I don't need to go any further with my personal displeasures with him)

Anyway.....I think....I know...he likes the spotlight and I think he is bitter towards Obama who dared to discredit and minimalize Wright's influence over him...

Other than that, there's no telling....I wouldn't rule out the DNC in your list of suspects....the latest polls (whatever those mean) seem to be favoring Hillary and the DNC may be trying to "force the issue" with Obama....just a theory....

[dollfus46]

I enjoyed Obama's remarks after Wrights debacle. "He does not speak for me. He does not speak for this campaign. His values are not my values." What? In you own words, he was your mentor only three months ago. You went to his church with your family, and you cheered with the rest to have him impose values on you and your family that were not yours? :roflwtf: This man is not bright. Obama has screwed the pooch. :smt023

[EricStratton]

I This man is not bright.

If "bright" was a requirment....it's just too easy.....George Bush can't even pronounce common words correctly.....he has set the English language back centuries.....hell, all these Republicans talk about a unified language for our country's defense and are damn Commander-in-Chief can't even speak the mother tounge....but, I hear coke does that to the speech area of one's brain....

Ridiculous.....I don't know if Obama is the man for the job or not, but "stupid" he is not....

[TheKing]

I enjoyed Obama's remarks after Wrights debacle. "He does not speak for me. He does not speak for this campaign. His values are not my values." What? In you own words, he was your mentor only three months ago. You went to his church with your family, and you cheered with the rest to have him impose values on you and your family that were not yours? :roflwtf: This man is not bright. Obama has screwed the pooch. :smt023

i have plenty of mentors that have values that are not my own... ive sat through many sermon that i do not agree with

this whole 'oh his preacher said this' crap as making mountains out of molehills

why does obama have to defend his preacher and mccain get a pass on his own psychotic preacher?

[SueScribe]

....I wouldn't rule out the DNC in your list of suspects....the latest polls (whatever those mean) seem to be favoring Hillary and the DNC may be trying to "force the issue" with Obama....just a theory....

As it turns out, it was not the DNC, nor did the Republicans do it (and least, not at last count). It was the Executive Committee of the National Press Club, who INVITED Pastor-Maniac Wright to their specially-crafted-for-him meeting. They gave him the podium.

Now. Thing is: The Chair of the Executive Committee of the National Press Club happens to be, among others on the board, rabid Hillary Clinton supporters.

I'll find the links later tonight. Right now, I'm at Amanda's house to stay for a few days and "help out", and for over 20 minutes now . . she's been gone somewhere . . out of sight.

Sue

[Fire Extinguisher]

Seems as if the god Rev has his own agenda, dont know what it is but if he wants to support Barak he would quickly fade away!

[mspolitics82]

First of all, he is pastor of a large congregation, and many such pastors (red, yellow, black, and white) develop a God complex over a period of time....not all of them, but a lot.....Oh the stories I could tell of one such pastor....but I won't....(side note: it was discovered that said pastor was banging more than the pulpit, so I don't need to go any further with my personal displeasures with him)

Anyway.....I think....I know...he likes the spotlight and I think he is bitter towards Obama who dared to discredit and minimalize Wright's influence over him...

Other than that, there's no telling....I wouldn't rule out the DNC in your list of suspects....the latest polls (whatever those mean) seem to be favoring Hillary and the DNC may be trying to "force the issue" with Obama....just a theory....


This ole conservative thinks you just "hit the nail on the head" ---- especially your comments in the last paragraph!!! Wouldn't suprise me if the DNC soon asks one of the 2 candidates to "throw in the towel" for the "good" of the party!

[EricStratton]

This ole conservative thinks you just "hit the nail on the head" ---- especially your comments in the last paragraph!!! Wouldn't suprise me if the DNC soon asks one of the 2 candidates to "throw in the towel" for the "good" of the party!


This would not be the first time in the history of humans that a group has eaten one of its own in the interest of survival....I'm just sayin'....

[lamarrebel]

Back on the topic at hand. . .

BARACK OBAMA
-- Change we can do without!

[dollfus46]

i have plenty of mentors that have values that are not my own... ive sat through many sermon that i do not agree with

this whole 'oh his preacher said this' crap as making mountains out of molehills

why does obama have to defend his preacher and mccain get a pass on his own psychotic preacher?
If you won't see it, I can't make you.

[SueScribe]

Tomorrow are the Indiana and North Carolina primaries. Clinton is leading (although within the margin of error) in the latest Indiana polls. Obama is leading (almost within the margin of error) in North Carolina. The delegates at stake are critical, but at this stage of the game, even if Clinton wins Indiana by 5-7 points and loses North Carolina by roughly the same number, she STILL cannot make the math add up in elected delegates.

Now. 'Super' delegates are moving, almost one for one, to both Clinton and Obama. However:

IF Obama takes North Carolina decidedly (by 8 points or more), and IF Clinton fails to take Indiana by at least the same point spread, the momentum AND elected delegates will favor Obama.

I heard this morning that the Clintons are prepared for a floor fight in August at convention. IF that happens, then the die should be cast on these people -

NOTHING means more to each of them than winning. NOTHING. Either both Bill and Hillary Clinton are living a delusional dream about winning the nomination for Ms. Clinton - OR they are prepared to destroy Obama's / The Democrats chances of winning the election in November PRECISELY so that Ms. Clinton can run again in 2012 (believing, no doubt, that McCain will have screwed up so badly, she'd be a shoo-in next go-round (when Florida and Michigan mind their manners and rules).

The problem with their slash & burn the party/country tactics are that between November 4, 2008 and the primary season of 2012, Hillary Clinton will have lost ALL credibility and integrity within the Democratic Party.

Perhaps . . she'll run as an Independent . .

[Pirate_129]

Tomorrow are the Indiana and North Carolina primaries. Clinton is leading (although within the margin of error) in the latest Indiana polls. Obama is leading (almost within the margin of error) in North Carolina. The delegates at stake are critical, but at this stage of the game, even if Clinton wins Indiana by 5-7 points and loses North Carolina by roughly the same number, she STILL cannot make the math add up in elected delegates.

Now. 'Super' delegates are moving, almost one for one, to both Clinton and Obama. However:

IF Obama takes North Carolina decidedly (by 8 points or more), and IF Clinton fails to take Indiana by at least the same point spread, the momentum AND elected delegates will favor Obama.

I heard this morning that the Clintons are prepared for a floor fight in August at convention. IF that happens, then the die should be cast on these people -

NOTHING means more to each of them than winning. NOTHING. Either both Bill and Hillary Clinton are living a delusional dream about winning the nomination for Ms. Clinton - OR they are prepared to destroy Obama's / The Democrats chances of winning the election in November PRECISELY so that Ms. Clinton can run again in 2012 (believing, no doubt, that McCain will have screwed up so badly, she'd be a shoo-in next go-round (when Florida and Michigan mind their manners and rules).

The problem with their slash & burn the party/country tactics are that between November 4, 2008 and the primary season of 2012, Hillary Clinton will have lost ALL credibility and integrity within the Democratic Party.

Perhaps . . she'll run as an Independent . .

I don't often agree with you Sue, but that is as good of an analysis of the democratic race at this point I have seen. I agree with you that Bill and Hillary both honestly believe that this was their election. They have a "how dare he" attitude reagrding Obama and the potential is definetly there to further splinter the democratic party.

[Conveyor Belt]

I love politics as much as the next guy. I gotta say, this year's primary for the Democrats is a doosey. They can't win, no matter what happens. Someone's going to go away from this with hurt feelings and rejection and conspiracy theories fullfilled. Let the coronation of John McCain, the true Democrat begin.

I like Obama. I'll vote for the man if he gets the nod.

Look at what's going on. Republican cross overs to vote for Clinton just to keep her valid for the next state.

If Clinton wins or she takes the nomination, then it's going to be a HUGE backlash from the 90% democratic black voting bloc. If Obama wins and Clinton has more popular votes, well, you can hear the echos of GWB/Gore ringing in the back hallways of the convention. Not to mention the strong feminist voters who are backing Clinton because she's a woman (yes, they ARE out there, I heard one on the news today).

And there, sitting back with that dentured grin, is McCain. The man who'd sell his soul for a vote.

We're ****ed.

[hendrixfreak70]

I love politics as much as the next guy. I gotta say, this year's primary for the Democrats is a doosey. They can't win, no matter what happens. Someone's going to go away from this with hurt feelings and rejection and conspiracy theories fullfilled. Let the coronation of John McCain, the true Democrat begin.

I like Obama. I'll vote for the man if he gets the nod.

Look at what's going on. Republican cross overs to vote for Clinton just to keep her valid for the next state.

If Clinton wins or she takes the nomination, then it's going to be a HUGE backlash from the 90% democratic black voting bloc. If Obama wins and Clinton has more popular votes, well, you can hear the echos of GWB/Gore ringing in the back hallways of the convention. Not to mention the strong feminist voters who are backing Clinton because she's a woman (yes, they ARE out there, I heard one on the news today).

And there, sitting back with that dentured grin, is McCain. The man who'd sell his soul for a vote.

We're ****ed.

Then you got people like me who ain't voting for any of em. Bob Barr 2008.

[Conveyor Belt]

Then you got people like me who ain't voting for any of em. Bob Barr 2008.

Yes, but most people don't have the guts to go out and vote for who they believe in.

If Obama gets the nod, this will be the first time in my life I've ever voted for a Dem in a general election.

And I gotta say, voting for who you believe in, vs voting for the lesser of two bad choices feels pretty damned good.

[SueScribe]

Latest NC polls show Obama with a 10-point spread; Indiana polls show Clinton with a four-point spread with 8 percent undecided.

Indiana wants me,
but I can't go back there . . .

If Clinton wins Indiana by less than 8 points, the delegate split will still give Obama (with the plurality of NC delegates), enough of an elected delegate lead to make it impossible for Ms. Clinton to win enough elected, or "super" delegates, to take the nomination. She'd have to try to garner the support needed to force the Florida and Michigan (where Obama wasn't even on the ticket) delegates to be seated at convention, and THAT, "my friends", would end her career in the Democratic Party.

By the time the DNC and state committees were through with her, she'd be fortunate to hold on to her senate seat.

Just MHO.

Sue

[SueScribe]

In the meantime,

Where have all the preachers gone,
long time passing ?

Wright must be in Nassau, counting his money.

[Pirate_129]

In the meantime,

Where have all the preachers gone,
long time passing ?

Wright must be in Nassau, counting his money.

If I was him, I would have asked for payment in something other than greenbacks. Maybe he's naked rolling around in a kiddie pool full of kruegerrands. :laugh:

[SueScribe]

On another thread, the "What Are You Reading And Why" thread, I posted that I'm reading Doris Kearns Goodwin's award-winning biography of Abraham Lincoln, "Team of Rivals" ("The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln").

The book's Introduction contains the following:

"When Lincoln won the [1860 Republican] nomination, each of his celebrated rivals believed the wrong man had been chosen. Ralph Waldo Emerson recalled his first reception of the news that the 'comparatively unknown name of Lincoln' had been selected: 'we heard the result coldly and sadly. It seemed too rash, on a purely local reputation, to build so grave a trust in such anxious times.' "

"Lincoln seemed to come from nowhere - a backwoods lawyer who had served one undistinguished term in the House of Representatives and had lost two consecutive contests for the U. S. Senate. Contemporaries and historians alike have attributed his surprising nomination to chance - the fact that he came from the battleground state of Illinois and stood in the center of his party. The comparative perspective suggests a different interpretation. When viewed against the failed efforts of his rivals [[New York senator William H. Seward, Ohio governor Salmon P. Chase, and Missouri's distinguished elder statesman Edward Bates], it is clear that Lincoln won the nomination because he was the shrewdest and canniest of them all. More accustomed to relying upon himself to shape events, he took the greatest control of the process leading up to the nomination, displaying a fierce ambition, an exceptional political acumen, and a wide range of emotional strengths, forged in the crucible of personal hardship, that took his unsuspecting rivals by surprise."

Following Lincoln's election to the presidency, he took the unprecedented steps of including ALL three rivals into his administration:

Seward became secretary of state.
Chase, secretary of the treasury.
Bates, attorney general.

"Every member of [his] administration was better known, better educated, and more experienced in public life than Lincoln."

"It soon became clear, however, that Abraham Lincoln would emerge the undisputed captain of this most unusual cabinet, truly a team of rivals."

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I highly recommend the book, and its timeless historical perspective.

Sue

[fuzzis]

The consensus seems to be that Obama has sewn it up, and that Clinton hanging on is just Clinton hanging on. She can't win, but she'll stay in until early June when the superdelegates begin to make their decisions.

Looks like we're going to have Obama versus McCain in November. :clap:

[CircusRide]

Let the mudslinging begin...........

One loser eliminated.......two losers left.

[Conveyor Belt]

I'd like to get an Obama sign for my yard... but I'm not sure my neighbors could stand it.

In fact, they may never talk to me again. Or let their kids play with my kid.

[SueScribe]

I'd like to get an Obama sign for my yard... but I'm not sure my neighbors could stand it.

In fact, they may never talk to me again. Or let their kids play with my kid.

Shame, isn't it? I've thought about the same thing. Except, in my "neighborhood", I fear it would draw gunfire.

[CircusRide]

Screw'm......put up the signs.

[SueScribe]

The past few weeks have been a period of reflection for me. Not the introspective kind of reflection, but rather, retro, metro, en globo vivos types of reflection. It was a matter of emotional survival. (We’ve all been there, I presume, unless there is a most privileged being among us who has never felt the affects of living as a challenge or personal trial. Never.)

What would I choose? Something had to be scraped off my plate and thus: hands & mind-on politics was dumped into the emotional trash bin. I backed off as a participant, armchair or otherwise, and have simply reflected upon the changing tide in the political sea. It’s been an eye-opener, sitting here on the beach.

The present political process has drawn me like a mosquito to stagnant, still water. It isn’t the same as the Kennedy/Nixon campaign of 1960. That one was thrilling, joyful, anticipatory.

The Carter/Reagan campaign was like watching an aging actor who finally nabbed the leading role in a serial A-Movie. This campaign, this sweaty three-way on a rumpled bed, has morphed into a putrid pool where all the runoff accumulates and the goo never quite dries up. It smells and has bottom-dwellers crawling around the center. Yuck.

Therefore, it didn’t rattle me that Senator Clinton actually said that she (unlike Obama, who cannot possibly) has the support of the "ordinary blue-collar, hard-working white" voters in the Democratic Party. When I saw and heard and comment, I, well, just sighed and took another sip of coffee. It’s come to that, I thought? Okay, then.

The most disturbed I’ve gotten since Pennsylvania, during the reflective period, was a day or so ago when I flipped the channel from History to CNN and caught Blitzer asking Obama what he thought of John McCain’s most recent commentary about Hamas and its desire to have he - Senator Obama - as president of the United States? I watched the McCain video and the comments, and, well, just sighed and threw the coffee cup across the room. (Not really, but I thought about how nice it would be if I could, and have someone else clean up the mess.)

So now then, here we are. *sigh* *sip*

Everyone seems to have given Senator Obama the Democratic nomination, other than the Democratic Party.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/SueScribe/timemag-obama2.jpg

On top of that, there is a dark mood out in the Media Hustings that is gathering momentum: Senator Clinton will likely be on the scene, up to the podium on January 23, or 22nd, or whenever it is, 2009. One way or the other, like Marley’s Ghost.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/SueScribe/clinton-toast.jpg

What can cable news do but cover "why", and occasionally air breaking news of Real Life - huge sink holes in Texas (wonder if Rev. Hagee thinks God did that? And, if so, why?); horrible death and destruction in what used to be Burma; a rash of school bus crashes; tornadoes everywhere.

I'm beginning to think that all this political broo-ha-ha between Clinton and Obama has been a grand illusion. Or, delusional.

Do the Democrats really have a brain when it comes to dirty political tricks, after all? Could the brains in the Party have decided months ago how to defuse and confuse Rush Limbaugh, his ditto-heads, the RNC, John McCain, and MOST profoundly - The Media - in this, the 2008 Presidential Primary Silly Season? HAH !

They planned to have a fight-to-the-finish duel between Clinton and Obama, right up to the very last, politically expedient moment. How can the RNC gather its legendary dirty political legs IF a "candidate" has not been officially chosen by the Democrats? IF the numbers crunch and all that's left is fodder for presumption?

How do 527s line up the artillery if the battleground keeps moving and the opposing warriors upon it swap sabers and armor routinely? HAH !

*sip*

It's either that, or . .

*sip*

[SueScribe]

Screw'm......put up the signs.

CB might do that and risk his children's social acceptance, but I'm not willing to rotate guard duty for months. Seriously. :smt105

[CircusRide]

Just tell them you're gay first. That way the sign won't really be on their mind.

[OTM]

Now there's a super delegate that's selling his vote for 20 million. Anybody else see the problem in this?

http://www.yahoo.com/

[dreamhippy]

Just tell them you're gay first. That way the sign won't really be on their mind.


http://www.conspiracyworld.com/index0147.htm (http://www.conspiracyworld.com/index0147.htm)


The Party for that is the Log Cabin Republicans.

[SueScribe]

Now there's a super delegate that's selling his vote for 20 million. Anybody else see the problem in this?

http://www.yahoo.com/

Are you talking about Obama "retiring" Senator Clinton's campaign debt if she'll go gently into that good primary night - the upcoming one would work - and campaign vigorously for Obama? While it may sound fishy, or unethical or both, the practice is common and has been routine in political parties for, well, a long long time (at the creation).

It's a game some play: I'll keep on keeping on until you make me an offer I can't refuse. Since, allegedly, Senator Clinton has "loaned herself" roughly 11.4 million of her money (she's withdrawn that in cashier's checks, I presume. Maybe wire transfers, or both), a typical offer she might not refuse would be to pay off her campaign debts - including to herself - and Vy-oh-lah, it's over.

Lyndon Johnson is said to have hovered over Jack Kennedy and his campaign managers (particularly brother Bobby), like a seagull to a shrimp boat. Johnson was pulling delegate shenanigans and to bring Texas and the near southwest along, he was chosen as Kennedy's vice-presidential candidate. Bobby reportedly screamed and used the word "M-F-er" quite a lot, but it became Kennedy/Johnson `60, nonetheless. (See, e.g. Theodore Sorenson's account in A Thousand Days and Theodore White's 1960 work in a series, The Making of a President.)

Point is, there are compromises and smelly deals done in politics, from the bottom up, not from "the top down," as Obama says is needed to bring about change in politics, change in the landscape of our nation whether political, social, economic, or personal. As things now stand, and have stood since at least the mid-nineteenth century: paying off opponents' debts, dancing with the devil in the pale Texas moonlight, and all sorts of other, similar things are - - routine and acceptable.

:oops:

Really.

[Pirate_129]

So now that it will benefit Obama, business as usual is excusable? :confused:

[OTM]

No, it was actually a super delegate from California, imagine that, that was selling his vote for 20 mil to either candidate and said he would use the money to register Latinos so they could vote in Nov. and help the Dems win.