Huckabee's a Soldier for Christ

[Conveyor Belt]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/06/AR2008010602261_pf.html

WINDHAM, N.H., Jan. 6 -- A pastor from Texas was scheduled to deliver the sermon Sunday at a church here called the Crossing.

But instead this small evangelical congregation heard from a different special guest: Baptist minister and 2008 presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, who delivered a sermon of more than 20 minutes on how to be part of "God's Army" in the middle school cafeteria where the congregation meets.

"When we become believers, it's as if we have signed up to be part of God's Army, to be soldiers for Christ," Huckabee told the enthusiastic audience.

Days after winning the Iowa Republican caucus, where Christian conservatives powered him to victory, Huckabee now finds himself in a state without an extensive religious base. While more than 60 percent of GOP voters were estimated to be evangelicals in the Iowa caucuses, they accounted for only about one in five New Hampshire Republican voters in 2000, the last time the state held a competitive GOP primary.

Huckabee's campaign did not allow cameras into the church, and the candidate did not make an appeal for votes as part of his sermon. But a church official invited members to attend an event a mile away, where Huckabee held a rally with actor Chuck Norris and where free clam chowder was served.

Huckabee mixed homespun jokes into his sermon and added a more religious tone than in his political speeches, not just quoting from the Bible but citing specific verses and talking about the serious side of faith.

"When you give yourself to Christ, some relationships have to go," he said. "It's no longer your life; you've signed it over."

Likening service to God to service in the military, Huckabee said "there is suffering in the conditioning for battle" and "you obey the orders."

Whoa. Hold the horses, man.

I know that some Christians will say that this is okay because it's Christ, but if you substituted Allah in for Christ, this would sound so crazy. That's how it sounds to me. This is SO radical... This is what's going to do Huckabee in. I know it's WHO he is, but America won't take it.

[JMC]

I don't see the problem with it. Mainly because I'm a Christian I'm sure.

Doesn't seem like he was campaigning at this time so I say let the man preach. No harm can be done by a Christian being in the White House.

I agree, Converyor Belt, the substituion would sound crazy.

[Conveyor Belt]

I agree, Converyor Belt, the substituion would sound crazy.

To a non christian, that's how it sounds when you leave Christ in.

[JMC]

To a non christian, that's how it sounds when you leave Christ in.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Crazy to me.

[dollfus46]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/06/AR2008010602261_pf.html



Whoa. Hold the horses, man.

I know that some Christians will say that this is okay because it's Christ, but if you substituted Allah in for Christ, this would sound so crazy. That's how it sounds to me. This is SO radical... This is what's going to do Huckabee in. I know it's WHO he is, but America won't take it.

Whoa. CB. You're saying that because he's running of office he can't do what he's trained for? He shut the door, wouldn't let cameras in and preached the Gospel. Never asked for a vote. Yet Black ministers spend hours telling their congregation whom to vote for. For this you condemn him? I think you and other Huckabee foes are making a mountain out of flat ground and building it in quick sand. As an agnostic it would certainly sound SO radical. But it's not. Jesse Jackson preached for votes every Sunday and Wednesday when he was running, and I'm not sure what mailorder house he got his D.D. from.

[onlyme]

Whoa. CB. You're saying that because he's running of office he can't do what he's trained for? He shut the door, wouldn't let cameras in and preached the Gospel. Never asked for a vote. Yet Black ministers spend hours telling their congregation whom to vote for. For this you condemn him? I think you and other Huckabee foes are making a mountain out of flat ground and building it in quick sand. As an agnostic it would certainly sound SO radical. But it's not. Jesse Jackson preached for votes every Sunday and Wednesday when he was running, and I'm not sure what mailorder house he got his D.D. from.

He can do, say and preach whatever he wants but he takes the risk of alienating undecided voters ( such as myself and I wasn't too fond of him to begin with ). Once you run for president privacy does not exist anymore. Lots of people have an aversion to Giuliani because of his marital issues. Those, too, are part of a candidate's private life but will and should be considered when making a decision.

[SueScribe]

I don't see the problem with it. Mainly because I'm a Christian I'm sure.

I'm a Christian, too, and I have a HUGE problem with riding The Robe into political office. The Separation of Church and State is a principle the Founders included in our basic constitutional principles for a reason.

The insistence of this man, and others like him, to intimate to voters that he'd run the country, first and foremost, AS a Christian is:

a) A big divisive issue and does nothing but create self-righteousness and judgemental inclinations among those who believe they are "right", as opposed to the rest of humanity, who are "wrong" - purely on a religious (or lack thereof) scale.

b) It is political pandering at its most disgusting;

c) It serves to USE and manipulate the good hearts and spiritual depths of the coveted voting bloc, i.e. Christian evangelicals.

Doesn't seem like he was campaigning at this time so I say let the man preach. No harm can be done by a Christian being in the White House.

To think that Huckabee wasn't campaigning at the time is, I suggest, disingenuous and Blinded by The Right.

As far as no harm being done by a Christian in the White House -

Very true, when they practice their faith on a personal level, as most of our presidents have done. When, as George Bush has stated on many occasions, "God told me" . . and Huckabee has said as much himself, that is where the collection plate stops, the danger begins, and the cruel and unseemly division of our national identity trumps reason and cohesiveness, all to our peril.

[SueScribe]

P.S. Why does Christ need soldiers? What is all this "Enough is Enough, Stand Up For Jesus" stuff? (Yard signs stuck to trees, fences and rights-of-way, yards and barns in this county, at least.) Surely we all know that Christ isn't a wimp, can stand up for himself, and still has (unless somethin's happened I've missed) the EAR of Almighty God, who can do anything He wants. Anything.

We are not on another Crusade, are we? Please say we aren't.

[JMC]

I'm a Christian, too, and I have a HUGE problem with riding The Robe into political office. The Separation of Church and State is a principle the Founders included in our basic constitutional principles for a reason.

The insistence of this man, and others like him, to intimate to voters that he'd run the country, first and foremost, AS a Christian is:

a) A big divisive issue and does nothing but create self-righteousness and judgemental inclinations among those who believe they are "right", as opposed to the rest of humanity, who are "wrong" - purely on a religious (or lack thereof) scale.

b) It is political pandering at its most disgusting;

c) It serves to USE and manipulate the good hearts and spiritual depths of the coveted voting bloc, i.e. Christian evangelicals.



To think that Huckabee wasn't campaigning at the time is, I suggest, disingenuous and Blinded by The Right.

As far as no harm being done by a Christian in the White House -

Very true, when they practice their faith on a personal level, as most of our presidents have done. When, as George Bush has stated on many occasions, "God told me" . . and Huckabee has said as much himself, that is where the collection plate stops, the danger begins, and the cruel and unseemly division of our national identity trumps reason and cohesiveness, all to our peril.


From the article, I don't see any reason to believe that this was anything other than a preacher preaching during a Sunday morning service.

Is it really that hard to believe that Huckabee was doing what he loves without having some sinister motive?

[JMC]

For the record, I believe his strong Christian values will be his downfall as well.

[TDaleBeavers]

For the record, I believe his strong Christian values will be his downfall as well.

George W. Bush was outspoken about his faith during the 2000 election and thereafter, so I am not sure that that is the case. America needs more -- not less -- leaders who wear their Christian faith, not on their sleeves, but in their hearts.

[fuzzis]

From the article, I don't see any reason to believe that this was anything other than a preacher preaching during a Sunday morning service.

Is it really that hard to believe that Huckabee was doing what he loves without having some sinister motive?

Except...that he wouldn't have been asked to preach at that particular Sunday morning service if he weren't running for President. So while he may not have been overtly "politicking"...he was certainly "politicking". It's not sinister; it just is.

[amanda]

George W. Bush was outspoken about his faith during the 2000 election and thereafter, so I am not sure that that is the case. America needs more -- not less -- leaders who wear their Christian faith, not on their sleeves, but in their hearts.

And in their heart is where it needs to stay. But to me it just doesn't ring true when a politician acts as a preacher. I don't want a preacher, I want a President.

[hendrixfreak70]

George W. Bush was outspoken about his faith during the 2000 election and thereafter, so I am not sure that that is the case. America needs more -- not less -- leaders who wear their Christian faith, not on their sleeves, but in their hearts.


And Alan Keyes took him to task about his 'faith'. Anyone who believes Christ was a philospher as W. does is really really well so much like Dubya.

[Conveyor Belt]

P.S. Why does Christ need soldiers? What is all this "Enough is Enough, Stand Up For Jesus" stuff? (Yard signs stuck to trees, fences and rights-of-way, yards and barns in this county, at least.) Surely we all know that Christ isn't a wimp, can stand up for himself, and still has (unless somethin's happened I've missed) the EAR of Almighty God, who can do anything He wants. Anything.


But, he's just a little BABY, Sue... A BABY!!! Got to defend the little baby Jesus!

We are not on another Crusade, are we? Please say we aren't.

Crusade for Christ (http://christianteens.about.com/od/getinvolved/a/CCCI.htm). Hmm. Taking the youth an indoctrinating them with religion? Sounds familiar...

We're 'securing' the Middle East for Democracy? A rose by any other name...

[CircusRide]

Since we've opened the can of religious BS on Huckabee for preaching the word, what do you think about Obama's faith? You can bust Huckabee's balls over his beliefs but what about Obama?
Here's his church's ideas:

http://tucc.org/black_value_system.html


Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System, written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee, chaired by the late Vallmer Jordan in 1981.
Dr. Manford Byrd, our brother in Christ, withstood the ravage of being denied his earned ascension to the number one position in the Chicago School System. His dedication to the pursuit of excellence, despite systematic denials, has inspired the congregation of Trinity United Church of Christ. Prayerfully, we have called upon the wisdom of all past generations of suffering Blacks for guidance in fashioning an instrument of Black self-determination, the Black Value System.


Now, I don't know about you, but I believe race has nothing to do with Christianity.

[Conveyor Belt]

Since we've opened the can of religious BS on Huckabee for preaching the word, what do you think about Obama's faith? You can bust Huckabee's balls over his beliefs but what about Obama?
Here's his church's ideas:

http://tucc.org/black_value_system.html



Now, I don't know about you, but I believe race has nothing to do with Christianity.

What does Obama say?

I know most people don't agree 100% with what their 'church' says. We know what Huckabee has said. Find sources to what Obama has said, not what his church says.

Look at what Romney says? As a Mormon, he should never, even once, thought of being pro-choice.

[CircusRide]

Obama has tried to avoid the questions about his church. Nevertheless, he's a member there. You can run from your past but you can't hide.
Now CB, you'll claim what Huckabee believes as "radical" but you don't have a problem with this? And what's worse, Obama avoiding the subject, or Huckabee not being afraid to say what he believes?

[Conveyor Belt]

Obama has tried to avoid the questions about his church. Nevertheless, he's a member there. You can run from your past but you can't hide.
Now CB, you'll claim what Huckabee believes as "radical" but you don't have a problem with this? And what's worse, Obama avoiding the subject, or Huckabee not being afraid to say what he believes?

What you have is a candidate, Huckabee, who lets his faith define who he is. Therefore, his faith becomes an issue in the debate for his candidacy. Obama hasn't mentioned his faith, outside of the occasional reference to God.

I don't think faith questions should be asked, but if you keep throwing it up there, like Hucakabee, then it is fodder for debate.

Some have agreed to leave Romney's faith out of it, because he doesn't talk about it.

I prefer a don't ask, don't tell policy. I'm not electing a preacher, as someone has said. I'm electing a president. Keep the religious rhetoric to a minimum.

[CircusRide]

Beliefs are your beliefs, whether you discuss them or not. Most older people refuse to discuss religion and politics in public but they have their beliefs. Obama's wife has already thrown down the race card once. Obama has also discussed his joining of the church while on the campaign trail.
If you can leave out Romney's beliefs, which he gave such a long speech on, and you can leave out Obama's beliefs, why can you not get past Huckabee's? Just because he is more outspoken about them? That's splitting hairs.
I do agree that religion probably shouldn't matter but it does. If a muslim is running, would everyone not be all over that? I think you either consider religion or you don't. You can't consider it for one but not the others.

[CircusRide]

By the way, here's what Obama said about his joining that church:

I believed and still believe in the power of the African-American religious tradition to spur social change.

That's a pretty subtle take on it.

[Conveyor Belt]

Beliefs are your beliefs, whether you discuss them or not. Most older people refuse to discuss religion and politics in public but they have their beliefs. Obama's wife has already thrown down the race card once. Obama has also discussed his joining of the church while on the campaign trail.
If you can leave out Romney's beliefs, which he gave such a long speech on, and you can leave out Obama's beliefs, why can you not get past Huckabee's? Just because he is more outspoken about them? That's splitting hairs.
I do agree that religion probably shouldn't matter but it does. If a muslim is running, would everyone not be all over that? I think you either consider religion or you don't. You can't consider it for one but not the others.

We'll have to agree to disagree. You call it splitting hairs, I call it being able to tell the difference between someone who puts their religion at the forefront of their being vs someone who is who they are and they just happen to believe X.

[Blockhead]

Yet Black ministers spend hours telling their congregation whom to vote for.

Psst. White preachers do that too. I can't say for sure, but I suspect Hispanic ministers do this also.

That's all well and good. But they're being extremely dishonest by doing this and maintaining their tax exempt status.

[SueScribe]

From the article, I don't see any reason to believe that this was anything other than a preacher preaching during a Sunday morning service.

Is he also going to lead The National Christian-Like-Me Prayer Service, each Sunday in the Roosevelt Room?

Perhaps his motive (to preach that service) was simply benign, masterful politics? Nothing sinister, just political. He is, after all, running for the presidency, is he not, and NOT The Bishop Of Washington?

. . . America needs more -- not less -- leaders who wear their Christian faith, not on their sleeves, but in their hearts.

Fine. But, the Scripture that comes to mind, for me, is not "Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth runs on and on." It, the Scripture, says the heart "speaketh". Quietly, in times of personal challenge or doubt. Not blabbering all over the "worldly" landscape of politics.

Perhaps Mr. Huckabee might reconsider his true calling. What happened to that, do you reckon, that he'd step aside from full-time serving The Lord to seek the most powerful position in The . . . World . . . and cast his pearls among such swine?

Since we've opened the can of religious BS on Huckabee for preaching the word, what do you think about Obama's faith? You can bust Huckabee's balls over his beliefs but what about Obama?
Here's his church's ideas:

http://tucc.org/black_value_system.html



Now, I don't know about you, but I believe race has nothing to do with Christianity.

Pastor Huckabee can "preach the word" to his bountiful heart's content. But, unless and until we reverse course and start lookin' for different colored smoke coming out the White House chimney, or The Southern Baptist Convention being THE presidential convention . .

This isn't a contest of faith we're approaching in November, it's a federal election to determine WHO controls the Executive Branch.

. . . on the other hand, my friends and soulmates . . . maybe that's exactly what it is: faith in the faithfulness of one religious ideology, OR faith in the God-given wisdom and hope, the strength of a collective National spirit, principle and peace, to which we are all - regardless -entitled.

Race has nothing to do with Christianity, true.

And - I submit that Christianity has nothing to do with THIS - the presidential - race.

Sue

[CircusRide]

We'll have to agree to disagree. You call it splitting hairs, I call it being able to tell the difference between someone who puts their religion at the forefront of their being vs someone who is who they are and they just happen to believe X.

So by your reasoning, if David Duke doesn't promote the KKK he's an electable option? Eventhough he's been a member, he's not talking about it, so it's ok? That's basically what you're saying when you say someone isn't putting their beliefs to the forefront and someone is.

[CircusRide]

Is he also going to lead The National Christian-Like-Me Prayer Service, each Sunday in the Roosevelt Room?

Perhaps his motive (to preach that service) was simply benign, masterful politics? Nothing sinister, just political. He is, after all, running for the presidency, is he not, and NOT The Bishop Of Washington?



Fine. But, the Scripture that comes to mind, for me, is not "Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth runs on and on." It, the Scripture, says the heart "speaketh". Quietly, in times of personal challenge or doubt. Not blabbering all over the "worldly" landscape of politics.

Perhaps Mr. Huckabee might reconsider his true calling. What happened to that, do you reckon, that he'd step aside from full-time serving The Lord to seek the most powerful position in The . . . World . . . and cast his pearls among such swine?



Pastor Huckabee can "preach the word" to his bountiful heart's content. But, unless and until we reverse course and start lookin' for different colored smoke coming out the White House chimney, or The Southern Baptist Convention being THE presidential convention . .

This isn't a contest of faith we're approaching in November, it's a federal election to determine WHO controls the Executive Branch.

. . . on the other hand, my friends and soulmates . . . maybe that's exactly what it is: faith in the faithfulness of one religious ideology, OR faith in the God-given wisdom and hope, the strength of a collective National spirit, principle and peace, to which we are all - regardless -entitled.

Race has nothing to do with Christianity, true.

And - I submit that Christianity has nothing to do with THIS - the presidential - race.

Sue

I agree, but you can't consider one person's faith without doing so to all candidates running. It's either no factor or it is.

[Conveyor Belt]

So by your reasoning, if David Duke doesn't promote the KKK he's an electable option? Eventhough he's been a member, he's not talking about it, so it's ok? That's basically what you're saying when you say someone isn't putting their beliefs to the forefront and someone is.

No, it's not.