Goodbye Ron Paul?

[Conveyor Belt]

I can't get the link up yet, but Drudge has a headline that states:

Ron Paul Newsletters Unearthed: Claim MLK a Gay Pedophile, Praise David Duke, Speculate 1993 WTC Bombing Was Mossad Job...

SHOCK QUOTES...

The server for the link is overwhelmed right now...

[Conveyor Belt]

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720-ac15-4532a7da84ca

All right, I read it, and this is what it basically says:

Ron Paul has put out various newsletters from the late 70's until present. Some of them contain overtly bigoted thoughts and ideas or passages, none of which can be directly linked to the pen of Paul, but which appear under his name on the newsletter.

[mac]

Notice that the title of that article is Angry White Man but it doesn't contain much to back that up, does it? The only thing it could say for certain was that some of these articles were published on a newsletter with his name on it-- not that he even wrote it. Also, the excerpts that they quoted didn't seem that bad to me, but besides that I guess I'm so ready for a change that I don't care if he made a stupid remark about black teenagers in 1978 or if he's been talking about conspiracy theories since the same time. Hell, I'd probably agree with some of them. Anyone who trusts the government is a fool and deserves what they get.

[hendrixfreak70]

This is the very same thing that happened to Pat Buchanan in 1992. The media tried very hard and successfully slandered him with tales of him being a klan member. When it seems as though someone offers a viable alternative to big government the only recourse for those who oppose it remains to slander them. Paul is about as racist as Jesse Jackson is a preacher.

[mac]

Calling someone a racist is always the trick up their sleeve, and they have PLENTY of reason to want to knock Ron Paul out of the race. First they tried pretending like he wasn't in the race, and that hasn't worked, so they're playing the he's a racist card. So very transparent.

[fuzzis]

Ron Paul has questionable associations and has not disavowed them. However, I believe, as his supporters have said, the proof will be in the pudding. The man can raise money, but it doesn't seem like he's very good at getting out the vote. :kekeke:

[jojobeans1120]

one really has to be careful when reading things like this, kinda like the Fox New Channel promoting porn thingy.....
The people that put these out there, do so for a reason.... to trash someone/something.

[Conveyor Belt]

If he'd never put it out there, it wouldn't be out there to be found. That's how I feel.

[jojobeans1120]

Is he the editor, owner, what exactly is his direct connection to this publication?

[hendrixfreak70]

Man that is putting alot of faith in people CB. People are inherently nefarious. If Paul thinks King was a gay pedophile then why would he cite King as an inspiration. Paul after all believes in civil disobedience. King, Ghandi, and the like epitomized civil disobedience. Paul has also refuted the claim already back in the early '00s. Once again this is a smear tactic that all politicians endure. It is especially crazy because the few articles that even deal with Paul compared to the other candidates mention that he was endorsed by a brothel, accepted money from Don Black, and the a ghostwriter cited something not nice about minorities. Where is the substance at?? What about his fiscal side? What about his foreign policy that strictly follows the Constitution. Wanna know why his name is 'not out there'? The media controls what we think and we listen to them for our news.

[Conveyor Belt]

Excerpts from the article:

Take, for instance, a special issue of the Ron Paul Political Report, published in June 1992, dedicated to explaining the Los Angeles riots of that year. "Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks three days after rioting began," read one typical passage. According to the newsletter, the looting was a natural byproduct of government indulging the black community with "'civil rights,' quotas, mandated hiring preferences, set-asides for government contracts, gerrymandered voting districts, black bureaucracies, black mayors, black curricula in schools, black tv shows, black tv anchors, hate crime laws, and public humiliation for anyone who dares question the black agenda." It also denounced "the media" for believing that "America's number one need is an unlimited white checking account for underclass blacks." To be fair, the newsletter did praise Asian merchants in Los Angeles, but only because they had the gumption to resist political correctness and fight back. Koreans were "the only people to act like real Americans," it explained, "mainly because they have not yet been assimilated into our rotten liberal culture, which admonishes whites faced by raging blacks to lie back and think of England."

and

In 1990, one newsletter mentioned a reporter from a gay magazine "who certainly had an axe to grind, and that's not easy with a limp wrist." In an item titled, "The Pink House?" the author of a newsletter--again, presumably Paul--complained about President George H.W. Bush's decision to sign a hate crimes bill and invite "the heads of homosexual lobbying groups to the White House for the ceremony," adding, "I miss the closet." "Homosexuals," it said, "not to speak of the rest of society, were far better off when social pressure forced them to hide their activities." When Marvin Liebman, a founder of the conservative Young Americans for Freedom and a longtime political activist, announced that he was gay in the pages of National Review, a Paul newsletter implored, "Bring Back the Closet!" Surprisingly, one item expressed ambivalence about the contentious issue of gays in the military, but ultimately concluded, "Homosexuals, if admitted, should be put in a special category and not allowed in close physical contact with heterosexuals."

and

Ron Paul is not going to be president. But, as his campaign has gathered steam, he has found himself increasingly permitted inside the boundaries of respectable debate. He sat for an extensive interview with Tim Russert recently. He has raised almost $20 million in just three months, much of it online. And he received nearly three times as many votes as erstwhile front-runner Rudy Giuliani in last week's Iowa caucus. All the while he has generally been portrayed by the media as principled and serious, while garnering praise for being a "straight-talker."

From his newsletters, however, a different picture of Paul emerges--that of someone who is either himself deeply embittered or, for a long time, allowed others to write bitterly on his behalf. His adversaries are often described in harsh terms: Barbara Jordan is called "Barbara Morondon," Eleanor Holmes Norton is a "black pinko," Donna Shalala is a "short lesbian," Ron Brown is a "racial victimologist," and Roberta Achtenberg, the first openly gay public official confirmed by the United States Senate, is a "far-left, normal-hating lesbian activist." Maybe such outbursts mean Ron Paul really is a straight-talker. Or maybe they just mean he is a man filled with hate.

James Kirchick is an assistant editor at The New Republic.

[hendrixfreak70]

Barbara Morondon?? Black pinko? That sounds like lingo from a yuppie not a guy that does'nt know who Mel Gibson or Tom Cruise is.

The middle excerpt seems more plausible as likely something that would be said by Paul, not necessarily the closet thing but the substance of the excerpt.

The top one, my goodness gracious are these sources real?? It seriously sounds like a kid wrote this.

[Conveyor Belt]

Barbara Morondon?? Black pinko? That sounds like lingo from a yuppie not a guy that does'nt know who Mel Gibson or Tom Cruise is.

The middle excerpt seems more plausible as likely something that would be said by Paul, not necessarily the closet thing but the substance of the excerpt.

The top one, my goodness gracious are these sources real?? It seriously sounds like a kid wrote this.

Those are actual excepts from the newsletters.

[fuzzis]

Those are actual excepts from the newsletters.

He let something with his name on it, regardless of whether he wrote it or not, go out with that garbage attached to it?

[Conveyor Belt]

He let something with his name on it, regardless of whether he wrote it or not, go out with that garbage attached to it?

Yep. That's why I'm kinda skeptical to his disavowing knowledge of it.

[hendrixfreak70]

Let us hold the crucifixion now.

[hendrixfreak70]

I really am surprised it took this long for you guys to hear about this. It came out like 6 months ago and now it has resurfaced again, and again, and again. You guys have already made your minds up so be it. He is a racist, a moron, inept, dumb, bigot, anti-semite, wrong about Iraq, wrong about fiscal issues, just all out wrong. I tell ya what even if he said it to hell with it. It is history.

[hendrixfreak70]

He won't become President ebcause he would be assassinated before he took the oath. Even if he did he can't fight 535 members of Congress. But guess what? I am still voting for him. I just plain ol don't care anymore. If you guys are willing to believe anything about anybody then I can't change any of it.

[JB2379]

He's a racist:-D

[Conveyor Belt]

He's a racist:-D

JB!

Post more!

[fuzzis]

Dude, no one here killed your puppy; he did that all on his own. (Nice attempt, though, at letting Paul completely off the hook for such things)

Like I told you a while back, you'd do better talking about what you believe in rather than trying to ascribe things to other folks.

[aaron]

Hmm, Drudge Report which is reportedly backed by a tax-exempt foundation funded by politicians, puts out a nasty story about Ron Paul who most politicians hate. Interesting.

[dollfus46]

one really has to be careful when reading things like this, kinda like the Fox New Channel promoting porn thingy.....
The people that put these out there, do so for a reason.... to trash someone/something.
Right On, Jojo!! +21 Funny how there are people on here who declared they wouldn't believe anything FoxNews said...........that is until FoxNews is on the hook for Porn.:laugh:

[dollfus46]

If he'd never put it out there, it wouldn't be out there to be found. That's how I feel.
That was twenty years ago. Doesn't mean he can't lead or be a good President.:smt118

[dollfus46]

Man that is putting alot of faith in people CB. People are inherently nefarious. If Paul thinks King was a gay pedophile then why would he cite King as an inspiration. Paul after all believes in civil disobedience. King, Ghandi, and the like epitomized civil disobedience. Paul has also refuted the claim already back in the early '00s. Once again this is a smear tactic that all politicians endure. It is especially crazy because the few articles that even deal with Paul compared to the other candidates mention that he was endorsed by a brothel, accepted money from Don Black, and the a ghostwriter cited something not nice about minorities. Where is the substance at?? What about his fiscal side? What about his foreign policy that strictly follows the Constitution. Wanna know why his name is 'not out there'? The media controls what we think and we listen to them for our news.

Man you are off the charts with accusations. People, everybody, all human beings are immoral and wicked. Speak for yourself. Your're the one who has no problem taking goats into the bedroom.:smt118

[HpyGoLky]

I wonder if FoxNews will be talking about this.

[dollfus46]

He won't become President ebcause he would be assassinated before he took the oath. Even if he did he can't fight 535 members of Congress. But guess what? I am still voting for him. I just plain ol don't care anymore. If you guys are willing to believe anything about anybody then I can't change any of it.

Nobody's telling you not to vote for him. You already had the info, obviously, and discounted it. This may effect some and not others. Doesn't affect me. I've said a month ago he's just too Libertarian for me. :kekeke:

[countrygirl]

It kind of reminds me of George Wallace....I don't know if many of you remember him. He had some good ideas that appealed to some folks, but he kind of scared me too.

[mac]

Let's keep in mind that nobody's shown where Ron Paul said anything racist to begin with. I personally don't think it's racist to say that the LA riots ended the day welfare checks came out. If it's true.

[Luvia]

Hmm, Drudge Report which is reportedly backed by a tax-exempt foundation funded by politicians, puts out a nasty story about Ron Paul who most politicians hate. Interesting.

The story came from another place...drudge just put it on their site. Isn't that how drudge works? They compile stories from other places...but most, if not all of the links are on other sits and written by others...

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.ht...5-4532a7da84ca (These people put out the story...drudge just placed it on their site).

Sorry, I'm really tired and I may have missed something.

[rdawg]

You gotta be careful what you believe from the media Paulites? Wow don't you guys take everything negative about Huckabee and treat it as cold hard facts. Here's your payback.

[aaron]

The story came from another place...drudge just put it on their site. Isn't that how drudge works? They compile stories from other places...but most, if not all of the links are on other sits and written by others...

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.ht...5-4532a7da84ca (These people put out the story...drudge just placed it on their site).

Sorry, I'm really tired and I may have missed something.

Drudge has actually broke many stories, some false. They also write from time to time. I see that TNR actually put this out though, so I'm glad that a non-biased source is reporting this. :laugh:

[dollfus46]

Where's my Roy Rogers/Dale Evans tape of Happy Trail to You?

[N40th]

Don't you people get it? It's a conspiracy between the neo-cons and their Saudi backers and the Clintonistas, all orchestrated by the Illuminati. And if you dare question Ron Paul it's because you're in on it, too, or just to blind to see it!

end sarcasm

[aaron]

Don't you people get it? It's a conspiracy between the neo-cons and their Saudi backers and the Clintonistas, all orchestrated by the Illuminati. And if you dare question Ron Paul it's because you're in on it, too, or just to blind to see it!

end sarcasm

Yeah, I'm not going that far, but this is big business. I've seen what happens in local politics, some of which is just unbelievable. When your talking about the presidency, I could easily believe billions are spent trying to control what you think about each candidate. That's why it'll be tough for an independent to win this election, they are harder to control.

[hendrixfreak70]

You gotta be careful what you believe from the media Paulites? Wow don't you guys take everything negative about Huckabee and treat it as cold hard facts. Here's your payback.

As a Ron Paul supporter, I give two shits as to what people say about Huckabee. The media hates Ron Paul because he is offering something different. Huckabee is more of the same.

[hendrixfreak70]

Dude, no one here killed your puppy; he did that all on his own. (Nice attempt, though, at letting Paul completely off the hook for such things)

Like I told you a while back, you'd do better talking about what you believe in rather than trying to ascribe things to other folks.

I tell you something then... if he said it then so be it. If he wrote it so be it. But guess what? I know a few black people (yes Ron Paul supporters have black friends, even some who support him "gasp") that agree. Alan Keyes would most likely, Walter Williams would agree. These two black gentlemen are well respected by many of all colors. The problem with all of this is the raising up of black culture while simultaneously dragging white culture down. You can see it with every race card that gets played. I love everyone as God has instructed me to do but no longer can I sit by and allow a one-sided story to be told.

[N40th]

The problem with all of this is the raising up of black culture while simultaneously dragging white culture down. You can see it with every race card that gets played.

When you say stuff like that, others don't need to play a race card.

[Conveyor Belt]

Is that the smell of suppressed racism?

Wow, maybe you picked the right candidate after all.

[mac]

This is off topic, but if you're white, you're not allowed to say anything negative about anyone who's NOT white. Doesn't matter what a person does or says-- if that person is any race other than white, everyone bites their tongues. Meanwhile, white folks get bashed nonstop and we're supposed to laugh and take it. It's bullshit, and I somewhat agree with part of what Hendrix said. White people get trashed all the time for nothing. Is saying so racist? If so, HOW?

[Conveyor Belt]

I guess it's all in how you want to see things.

[mac]

Maybe so then.

[aaron]

In today's society, if your saying something negative about a race, even if it's yours, your racist. I try not to talk in terms of race, unless it's to identify someone visually.

[hendrixfreak70]

Is that the smell of suppressed racism?

Wow, maybe you picked the right candidate after all.

Anyone who knows me knows I am not a racist. Nice try though. Is it a crime to be white? Yes I am white. I do not tote a Confederate flag around, chew tobacco, wear a big belt buckle, speak with a draw, or believe Martin Luther King was a bad guy. Actually in fact I love Dr. King. I am simply pointing out that one can be of a specific race and be proud of it. It works BOTH ways, not just one. Beside you said something in an earlier post about black people (I think it dealt with preachers and the black congregation and being a fly on the wall or something) and I didn't call you a racist. Anyone who wants to call me a racist can get bent. Hit me up with a phone call or an email or whatever the source so we can talk about this. I do not take kindly to being called something I am not. It is really hard to be civil right now because this is the FIRST damn time I mentioned anything remotely dealing with race and all of a sudden I am a racist.

[Conveyor Belt]

Let's rewind.

Do you think the statements quoted in the article are racist?

No attachment to Paul, a simple yes or no would be nice.

[hendrixfreak70]

Yes. Because race was interjected.

[hendrixfreak70]

If it would have been about trees then it would have been treeist. Am I a treeist now?

[mac]

Let's rewind.

Do you think the statements quoted in the article are racist?

No attachment to Paul, a simple yes or no would be nice.

I think they were insensitive and bitter.

[Conveyor Belt]

:zelfmoord

You guys have a good night and sleep well...

Humility, my fellow Americans, humility.

[hendrixfreak70]

Is it 'racist' to say that crime in an area that is predominately black mostly is caused by black people? Yes, because race was interjected. Does it mean it is wrong. No. Because the law of numbers work against it being right. Is it racist of me to say that the drug crystal meth is mostly used by white people. Yes, because race was interjected. Is it wrong. No, because it has been my experience that mostly white people use crystal meth.

[jojobeans1120]

I think it is funny b/c the Republicans spend just as much time/money digging up dirt on Democrats, and vice versa. IMO, someone found him a big enough threat in this election to dig up dirt from the beyond. I would have to see PROOF that he wrote it, or was in some way directly tied to it, before I bought into the BS.
When someone came out bringing up issues about Obama and his history, things he'd said, places he'd been, etc. all of hell broke loose. "How dare you?" some said.... LMAO. Now that they've managed to dig up something and in some way attach RP's name to it, they're gathering like flies to shit!!!

For God's sake people, attack who you want, but make damn certain they're not a liberal/democrat!!!!!


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


Give me a freakin' break. :rolleyes:

[mac]

Racism is about hatred. Mentioning a race or saying something about a race is not necessarily out of hate. That is why I don't think the following paragraph quotes anything overtly racist from the newsletter that Ron Paul supported:

This "Special Issue on Racial Terrorism" was hardly the first time one of Paul's publications had raised these topics. As early as December 1989, a section of his Investment Letter,titled "What To Expect for the 1990s," predicted that "Racial Violence Will Fill Our Cities" because "mostly black welfare recipients will feel justified in stealing from mostly white 'haves.'" Two months later, a newsletter warned of "The Coming Race War," and, in November 1990, an item advised readers, "If you live in a major city, and can leave, do so. If not, but you can have a rural retreat, for investment and refuge, buy it." In June 1991, an entry on racial disturbances in Washington, DC's Adams Morgan neighborhood was titled, "Animals Take Over the D.C. Zoo." "This is only the first skirmish in the race war of the 1990s," the newsletter predicted. In an October 1992 item about urban crime, the newsletter's author--presumably Paul--wrote, "I've urged everyone in my family to know how to use a gun in self defense. For the animals are coming." That same year, a newsletter described the aftermath of a basketball game in which "blacks poured into the streets of Chicago in celebration. How to celebrate? How else? They broke the windows of stores to loot." The newsletter inveighed against liberals who "want to keep white America from taking action against black crime and welfare," adding, "Jury verdicts, basketball games, and even music are enough to set off black rage, it seems."

The closest he comes is saying "the animals are coming." This is only racist if you know that he is referring to black people, and it doesn't say that even though it implies it. Even if he is referring to them as "animals," I really don't disagree with it because he's referring to criminal behavior.

I'm also skeptical about whether it's fair to call him a racist because of the fact that these things are paraphrased and may have been taken out of context for all I know, since I have never seen a copy of any of the newsletters it refers to.

On another note, I don't think it's unnatural or wrong in any way to feel frustrated by the cultural differences between races. When you're forced to deal with someone who thinks differently than you do, it's stressful. I just came back from Miami, and believe me, I had some unkind thoughts about Cubans in general because having to deal with them stressed me out big time. That doesn't mean I hate Cubans or that I'm a racist, but if I'd said something out loud I probably would've been thought of as such.

[hendrixfreak70]

Not one damn thing said there is racist if it was true. Exactly Mac thank you. Guess what race-card pullers, white people can do the same thing! Break windows and loot and they are animals too. I see no hatred there. I see cynicism. I see fear. I don't see the usual racism such as let us send them all back or calling people names or whatever the hooded people say.

[N40th]

Anyone who knows me knows I am not a racist. {...} I am simply pointing out that one can be of a specific race and be proud of it.

So you look at yourself and other things racially, taking pride in the fact that you are a member of a particular race and not others, celebrating what you consider to be your race's culture over what you consider to be the culture of other races -- whatever the hell that means -- and yet you are saying you are not a racist?

Non sequitur, good sir.

You might not be a racist in the sense of "I hate all {insert plural of favorite racial epithet here}", but you still view the world through a lens of race. I mean really . . . "white culture"? What the hell is that? American culture? Western civilization? Both are long-since affected by interaction with non-whites from Aborigines to 'Native' Americans to Zulus, and indeed much of what makes a culture is what it takes in (or denies as Otherness) from other societies.

Besides, what makes "white culture" in the US, and what separates that from American culture . . . replete as it is with subcultures (Goths, ghetto gangstas, and geeks . . . oh my!) that span racial boundaries?

But I digress.

Even if you do not actively hate other races . . . what could be referred to as 'strong racism' . . . you do have an illogical pride in the race you consider yourself a part of and a peculiar view of what associates with race, making you, if even 'weak'ly, a racist.

To avoid all racism entirely, you need only ignore the issue of race altogether. If I see a guy on TV, I don't instantly focus on the color of his skin. I do wallet-checks if a seedy-looking guy gets too close, white or black. And I'll take a gander at good cleavage or a nice posterior no matter what the skin color.

Ignoring race would be much easier but for the media always plastering it everywhere. I noticed after the whole Don Imus thing that when I'd see a black woman the thought of what he said would enter my brain simply because it had been said so much in association with black women, whereas previously I would've simply thought 'woman', 'hot woman', 'ugly woman', or whatever. It took awhile to get that out of the system.

And yes, there are contextual concerns. Sometimes it isn't racism, but empiricism. In other words, I'll all for profiling. If I'm doing homeland security, you're damn right those of Arab descent will pique my interest, and screw you if you don't like it. I would want to suffer extra screening as a damn dirty honky if the KKK was up to no good on major Al Qaeda-esque levels. It should be expected.

But when you start talking about racial cultures and race pride and crap like that . . . well, don't be shocked when people start thinking you might be a racist like others who've said similar or worse (e.g. Al Sharpton . . . and yes, minorities can be racist, too).

[Conveyor Belt]

N40th, +21 if I had it.

[mspolitics82]

He won't become President ebcause he would be assassinated before he took the oath. Even if he did he can't fight 535 members of Congress. But guess what? I am still voting for him. I just plain ol don't care anymore. If you guys are willing to believe anything about anybody then I can't change any of it.


I tend to believe it is more propoganda than anything......heck, if one digs long and deep enough, they can find just about anything or link just about anything to any candidate for any position. THAT'S POLITICS!

I am not a Ron Paul fan, but I certainly am not on the bandwagon with the others who jump on this kind of stuff at first sight, or even second glance. I think it should be taken for what it's worth.....mere political propoganda.

I suppose my only fear with Ron Paul is that he will run for President as an Independent if he does not get the nomination.....which will hurt the conservative(Rep.) candidate more than it will the liberal (Dem.) one ---however, as I look at the field of Republican contenders, I highly question their conservatism.

[hendrixfreak70]

So you look at yourself and other things racially, taking pride in the fact that you are a member of a particular race and not others, celebrating what you consider to be your race's culture over what you consider to be the culture of other races -- whatever the hell that means -- and yet you are saying you are not a racist?

Non sequitur, good sir.

You might not be a racist in the sense of "I hate all {insert plural of favorite racial epithet here}", but you still view the world through a lens of race. I mean really . . . "white culture"? What the hell is that? American culture? Western civilization? Both are long-since affected by interaction with non-whites from Aborigines to 'Native' Americans to Zulus, and indeed much of what makes a culture is what it takes in (or denies as Otherness) from other societies.

Besides, what makes "white culture" in the US, and what separates that from American culture . . . replete as it is with subcultures (Goths, ghetto gangstas, and geeks . . . oh my!) that span racial boundaries?

But I digress.

Even if you do not actively hate other races . . . what could be referred to as 'strong racism' . . . you do have an illogical pride in the race you consider yourself a part of and a peculiar view of what associates with race, making you, if even 'weak'ly, a racist.

To avoid all racism entirely, you need only ignore the issue of race altogether. If I see a guy on TV, I don't instantly focus on the color of his skin. I do wallet-checks if a seedy-looking guy gets too close, white or black. And I'll take a gander at good cleavage or a nice posterior no matter what the skin color.

Ignoring race would be much easier but for the media always plastering it everywhere. I noticed after the whole Don Imus thing that when I'd see a black woman the thought of what he said would enter my brain simply because it had been said so much in association with black women, whereas previously I would've simply thought 'woman', 'hot woman', 'ugly woman', or whatever. It took awhile to get that out of the system.

And yes, there are contextual concerns. Sometimes it isn't racism, but empiricism. In other words, I'll all for profiling. If I'm doing homeland security, you're damn right those of Arab descent will pique my interest, and screw you if you don't like it. I would want to suffer extra screening as a damn dirty honky if the KKK was up to no good on major Al Qaeda-esque levels. It should be expected.

But when you start talking about racial cultures and race pride and crap like that . . . well, don't be shocked when people start thinking you might be a racist like others who've said similar or worse (e.g. Al Sharpton . . . and yes, minorities can be racist, too).

First off dude you dont know me. Secondly I was not the one who brought this stuff up. I am saying and ONLY ****ing saying that I am white. When dudes like you start throwing around labels about someone in an online forum when you do not know the person you have become no better than the people (like me) that you accuse.

[hendrixfreak70]

I honest to God do not go around day to day and think I am white I am white. I think it is silly that I have to validate this stuff to the idiots out there. I know full well that we as humans have different ideas and ways of doing things. We all can be proud of who we are without injecting race into it. I agree. I think that the things that have been said here are unfortunate and MOST CERTAINLY do not reflect my beliefs. It is easy behind the cloak of anonymity to call names and say things that is not reflective of personal beliefs. After all the forum is perhaps the most impersonal way of communicating aside from not communicating at all. I am not a racist, I do not condone racism in my household, my child will be color blind, since I committed my life to God at 16 I have not utter a racial epithet. By the way I do not care if people know who I am. My name is Anthony (A.J.) Thornton, I work at Camp Shelby, I live in Purvis, I drive a 2001 Chevy Silverado with 22 inch spinning rims, scoop hood, tonneau cover, Cadillac grill. I also own a 2005 Escalade. Anything else you folks want to know just send me a message. It really really pisses me off when I am called names that don't fit. I had people of all races covering my six in Iraq. A good buddy of mine was wounded and it nearly tore my heart out. He was black. I too was wounded and it bothered him. Sounds 'racist' doesnt it?

[fuzzis]

hf70, perhaps you need to read the wiki...and then edit your post before you receive an infraction. If you can't remain civil and respectful, then perhaps you need to utilize the "ignore" feature.

[hendrixfreak70]

I may have to. Is it ok to call someone names in the Wiki?? Remember, I didnt start this stuff. Let's say someone called you I dunno, a lesbian. If it weren't would it piss you off?

[fuzzis]

I may have to. Is it ok to call someone names in the Wiki?? Remember, I didnt start this stuff. Let's say someone called you I dunno, a lesbian. If it weren't would it piss you off?

You don't call someone a "d***head", an "a hole", and an "a hat". That doesn't play here. Other places, yes. Here no.

And I work really hard at disconnecting....people calling me a lesbian or whatever? Eh. I've had worse said, and folks who are no longer here have attempted worse.

It's words on a screen, and in the grand scheme of things, nothing to really get worked up about.

[dollfus46]

So you look at yourself and other things racially, taking pride in the fact that you are a member of a particular race and not others, celebrating what you consider to be your race's culture over what you consider to be the culture of other races -- whatever the hell that means -- and yet you are saying you are not a racist?

Non sequitur, good sir.

You might not be a racist in the sense of "I hate all {insert plural of favorite racial epithet here}", but you still view the world through a lens of race. I mean really . . . "white culture"? What the hell is that? American culture? Western civilization? Both are long-since affected by interaction with non-whites from Aborigines to 'Native' Americans to Zulus, and indeed much of what makes a culture is what it takes in (or denies as Otherness) from other societies.

Besides, what makes "white culture" in the US, and what separates that from American culture . . . replete as it is with subcultures (Goths, ghetto gangstas, and geeks . . . oh my!) that span racial boundaries?

But I digress.

Even if you do not actively hate other races . . . what could be referred to as 'strong racism' . . . you do have an illogical pride in the race you consider yourself a part of and a peculiar view of what associates with race, making you, if even 'weak'ly, a racist.

To avoid all racism entirely, you need only ignore the issue of race altogether. If I see a guy on TV, I don't instantly focus on the color of his skin. I do wallet-checks if a seedy-looking guy gets too close, white or black. And I'll take a gander at good cleavage or a nice posterior no matter what the skin color.

Ignoring race would be much easier but for the media always plastering it everywhere. I noticed after the whole Don Imus thing that when I'd see a black woman the thought of what he said would enter my brain simply because it had been said so much in association with black women, whereas previously I would've simply thought 'woman', 'hot woman', 'ugly woman', or whatever. It took awhile to get that out of the system.

And yes, there are contextual concerns. Sometimes it isn't racism, but empiricism. In other words, I'll all for profiling. If I'm doing homeland security, you're damn right those of Arab descent will pique my interest, and screw you if you don't like it. I would want to suffer extra screening as a damn dirty honky if the KKK was up to no good on major Al Qaeda-esque levels. It should be expected.

But when you start talking about racial cultures and race pride and crap like that . . . well, don't be shocked when people start thinking you might be a racist like others who've said similar or worse (e.g. Al Sharpton . . . and yes, minorities can be racist, too).

I ono N40. No one has called Obama a racist and by your very definition, he's a full blown racist. Why is it that "white culture" is racist, but "black culture" isn't? I mean it is, but why do blacks get a pass?:confused:

[dollfus46]

That wasn't very cordial, Hendrixfreak70. I thought you were better than that. Take some vallium and get some rest. :smt023

[hendrixfreak70]

Be careful Dollfus. There are those out there who are going to paint you as a racist now. You said 'black'.

[hendrixfreak70]

You don't call someone a "d***head", an "a hole", and an "a hat". That doesn't play here. Other places, yes. Here no.

And I work really hard at disconnecting....people calling me a lesbian or whatever? Eh. I've had worse said, and folks who are no longer here have attempted worse.

It's words on a screen, and in the grand scheme of things, nothing to really get worked up about.

The question is does it piss you off? Kudos to you for being able to hold your tongue (fingers). I have long strived to be liked by all, but I guess in my short life I have found that you can't please all of the ***hats, *i**heads, and *ss*****. :laugh:

[dollfus46]

Be careful Dollfus. There are those out there who are going to paint you as a racist now. You said 'black'.

Many have tried. I just laugh at them. I know who I am. Many use it offensively to put me on the defensive but I don't let 'um. If they can keep me defending myself they don't have to defend themselves. I recognize it for what it is.

[shultz dooley]

Hi everybody, I'm new here and was killing some time reading about Ron Paul's lost cause. I was curious to know, who exactly besides Paul, has some original ideas? It seems like all the other's running, all want the government to run all aspects of our lives and all rely on vague policy soundbytes with no substance. Is there something I'm not seeing or hearing?

[dollfus46]

Hi everybody, I'm new here and was killing some time reading about Ron Paul's lost cause. I was curious to know, who exactly besides Paul, has some original ideas? It seems like all the other's running, all want the government to run all aspects of our lives and all rely on vague policy soundbytes with no substance. Is there something I'm not seeing or hearing?

Hi and welcome Shultz. You have it right. Same tired ole crap. If I hear "change" one more time I'll vomit. I'm for change. Good. Then don't re-elect Bush and you automatically have change. :laugh: No body but Paul has said anything they'd do except give us "free" health insurance.:laugh::laugh: I can't wait for "free" health insurance. I wanna see which health facilities will accept patients free. If they think SS is a mess, food stamps are a mess, Medicaid and Medicare are a mess, Food for Oil is a mess, wait'll you get "free" health care.:smt105

[hendrixfreak70]

That is an extremely conservative point of view. At least you and I agree on this part. Heck yes!! Free health=socialism. Any time the government gets involved in the affairs of us it is socialism. We have to get rid of the welfare state. No more free rides. But, but ,but you may ask how are we gonna take care of all of these people who just cannot help themselves? Easy, private charity works. It has been marginalized, but it works. I will be the first to help someone out if there was no welfare. Would anyone else follow my lead?

BTW Dollfus the only way Bush will get re-elected again is if (nay, when) something happens in this country and he gets to be dictator.

[JB2379]

Is it 'racist' to say that crime in an area that is predominately black mostly is caused by black people? Yes, because race was interjected. Does it mean it is wrong. No. Because the law of numbers work against it being right. Is it racist of me to say that the drug crystal meth is mostly used by white people. Yes, because race was interjected. Is it wrong. No, because it has been my experience that mostly white people use crystal meth.

You just don't get it

[hendrixfreak70]

What is it to get?

[JB2379]

What is it to get?

A clue man, a freaking clue.

[hendrixfreak70]

I am done talking about race. Period.

[Conveyor Belt]

Good.

Miss those posts, JB.

[Lumberg's Lackey]

Folks, this is old news - and false at that. Those of you who are trumpeting this as something newsworthy should either retract this and admit your error or just admit that you'd rather propagate a lie than to see Ron Paul elected.

“The quotations in The New Republic article are not mine and do not represent what I believe or have ever believed. I have never uttered such words and denounce such small-minded thoughts. -- Ron Paul

To see the full article: http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/125/ron-paul-statement-on-the-new-republic-article-regarding-old-newsletters

[hendrixfreak70]

So you look at yourself and other things racially, taking pride in the fact that you are a member of a particular race and not others, celebrating what you consider to be your race's culture over what you consider to be the culture of other races -- whatever the hell that means -- and yet you are saying you are not a racist?

Non sequitur, good sir.

You might not be a racist in the sense of "I hate all {insert plural of favorite racial epithet here}", but you still view the world through a lens of race. I mean really . . . "white culture"? What the hell is that? American culture? Western civilization? Both are long-since affected by interaction with non-whites from Aborigines to 'Native' Americans to Zulus, and indeed much of what makes a culture is what it takes in (or denies as Otherness) from other societies.

Besides, what makes "white culture" in the US, and what separates that from American culture . . . replete as it is with subcultures (Goths, ghetto gangstas, and geeks . . . oh my!) that span racial boundaries?

But I digress.

Even if you do not actively hate other races . . . what could be referred to as 'strong racism' . . . you do have an illogical pride in the race you consider yourself a part of and a peculiar view of what associates with race, making you, if even 'weak'ly, a racist.

To avoid all racism entirely, you need only ignore the issue of race altogether. If I see a guy on TV, I don't instantly focus on the color of his skin. I do wallet-checks if a seedy-looking guy gets too close, white or black. And I'll take a gander at good cleavage or a nice posterior no matter what the skin color.

Ignoring race would be much easier but for the media always plastering it everywhere. I noticed after the whole Don Imus thing that when I'd see a black woman the thought of what he said would enter my brain simply because it had been said so much in association with black women, whereas previously I would've simply thought 'woman', 'hot woman', 'ugly woman', or whatever. It took awhile to get that out of the system.

And yes, there are contextual concerns. Sometimes it isn't racism, but empiricism. In other words, I'll all for profiling. If I'm doing homeland security, you're damn right those of Arab descent will pique my interest, and screw you if you don't like it. I would want to suffer extra screening as a damn dirty honky if the KKK was up to no good on major Al Qaeda-esque levels. It should be expected.

But when you start talking about racial cultures and race pride and crap like that . . . well, don't be shocked when people start thinking you might be a racist like others who've said similar or worse (e.g. Al Sharpton . . . and yes, minorities can be racist, too).

Good.

Miss those posts, JB.

I would ask you do the same then.

[fuzzis]

Folks, this is old news - and false at that. Those of you who are trumpeting this as something newsworthy should either retract this and admit your error or just admit that you'd rather propagate a lie than to see Ron Paul elected.

“The quotations in The New Republic article are not mine and do not represent what I believe or have ever believed. I have never uttered such words and denounce such small-minded thoughts. -- Ron Paul

To see the full article: http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/125/ron-paul-statement-on-the-new-republic-article-regarding-old-newsletters

The thing is, though, that he allowed his name to be attached to such tripe. So he didn't write it. He wasn't responsible enough to make sure it didn't go out in the first place.

I've said before that he has questionable associations. If we're known by the company we keep, then we better be very careful. Ron Paul has not been that careful.

[CircusRide]

I find this thread funny. The same people who were defending Obama's racist church is blasting someone for racism. Funny!
Racism is racism regardless of the color of the skin of the person committing such actions.

[dollfus46]

You just don't get it
Yeah we get it, JB.

[hendrixfreak70]

You're right on the minority turn out. Anyone who thinks it's the slightest bit racist should be a fly on the wall around some of the working class blacks in MS. They want to vote for 'what's his name' because he's black. They also think that it'll never happen and someone will kill him before he's elected. That's coming from things I've heard people talking about.

CB said on January 7th about Hillary dropping out. And I am done.

[dollfus46]

You just don't get it

What is it to get?

A clue man, a freaking clue.

This is JB's constant and never-ending contribution to this site. You never hear from him until race comes up and he comes roaring on like the Lone Ranger to hollar, "Racist" and make deep, profound statements like the ones above.. I'd put him on ignore except he's so predictible is funny. Don't take my word for it. Go to "Find all posts by JB".:smt009

[hendrixfreak70]

Deeper than a bathtub.

[JB2379]

This is JB's constant and never-ending contribution to this site. You never hear from him until race comes up and he comes roaring on like the Lone Ranger to hollar, "Racist" and make deep, profound statements like the ones above.. I'd put him on ignore except he's so predictible is funny. Don't take my word for it. Go to "Find all posts by JB".:smt009

Dollfus, uh.....nevermind:-D

[hendrixfreak70]

Deep! :)

[JB2379]

You're right on the minority turn out. Anyone who thinks it's the slightest bit racist should be a fly on the wall around some of the working class blacks in MS. They want to vote for 'what's his name' because he's black. They also think that it'll never happen and someone will kill him before he's elected. That's coming from things I've heard people talking about.

CB said on January 7th about Hillary dropping out. And I am done.

Don't have a clue as to who working class African-Americans are going to vote for.

[shultz dooley]

Now that we've got that racist thing under control and with Obama's outstanding support, this should be a moot point. That dog just won't hunt anymore. Time to put the old girl down and get down to the nuts and bolts of probably the biggest presidential election I've seen in awhile.

Back to the task at hand, am I missing something? Is their any substance to the other players policies? War? Our Economy? The falling dollar? Immigration? Etc? Paul seems pretty reasonable on most of his stances, with real honest to goodness answers, that this layman can understand and I believe, most layman have considered, most of his positions. I'm sure I'm missing something and I'm not 100% Paul, but I gotta tell ya, this is the only guy that makes sense to me.

[hendrixfreak70]

Don't have a clue as to who working class African-Americans are going to vote for.

That was the point behind me posting what Conveyor Belt had said. I am done talking about the R word but just wanted to show that just as easily as someone could put it out here someone can give it right back.

[hendrixfreak70]

Now that we've got that racist thing under control and with Obama's outstanding support, this should be a moot point. That dog just won't hunt anymore. Time to put the old girl down and get down to the nuts and bolts of probably the biggest presidential election I've seen in awhile.

Back to the task at hand, am I missing something? Is their any substance to the other players policies? War? Our Economy? The falling dollar? Immigration? Etc? Paul seems pretty reasonable on most of his stances, with real honest to goodness answers, that this layman can understand and I believe, most layman have considered, most of his positions. I'm sure I'm missing something and I'm not 100% Paul, but I gotta tell ya, this is the only guy that makes sense to me.

Well put.

[JB2379]

Yeah, now that all of that racism crap is done with, truth is - I'm still now 100 percent sold on Obama. Heck, it's actually kind of creepy when you catually consider how close the possibility of him of Hilliary becoming our next president. As a child, we would always hear how one day a woman or an African-American may become president, and now that the time has arrived, it's like the world is about to come to an end or something, because I thought I would never live to see it. Heck, some folks are even saying that Obama is the antichrist. Who knows! On the other hand, I really don't know too much about this Ron Paul fellow.

[shultz dooley]

My #1 son is pro Obama and he's got quite a head on his shoulders (here's where I pat myself on the back:>) ) and I'd have to agree with him, if Obama is the best leader, then that's what our country needs. But me, I'm looking for substance and I haven't seen any from Obama, flowery speeches are great, but I need substance.

[CircusRide]

Yeah, now that all of that racism crap is done with, truth is - I'm still now 100 percent sold on Obama. Heck, it's actually kind of creepy when you catually consider how close the possibility of him of Hilliary becoming our next president. As a child, we would always hear how one day a woman or an African-Aamerican may become president, and now that the time has arrived, it's like the world is about to come to an end or something. Heck, some folks are even saying that Obama is the antichrist. Who knows! On the other hand, I really don't know too much about this Ron Paul fellow.

I don't think people are freaking over a woman or AA being president. I think people just don't have a very good option to choose. It's either this way or that and there's no in between with their ideas. One gets a positive nibble from the public on a statement and you turnaround and the other guy/woman is trying to run with it too. They're flip flopping around and none of them have any substance. Health Care for everyone, no war, save the middle class is all I'm hearing. How about they tell us how the hell they're going to do that. Until they can.......They all suck!

[dollfus46]

Now that we've got that racist thing under control and with Obama's outstanding support, this should be a moot point. That dog just won't hunt anymore. Time to put the old girl down and get down to the nuts and bolts of probably the biggest presidential election I've seen in awhile.

Back to the task at hand, am I missing something? Is their any substance to the other players policies? War? Our Economy? The falling dollar? Immigration? Etc? Paul seems pretty reasonable on most of his stances, with real honest to goodness answers, that this layman can understand and I believe, most layman have considered, most of his positions. I'm sure I'm missing something and I'm not 100% Paul, but I gotta tell ya, this is the only guy that makes sense to me.

You're right, it's all lies and puff. But even Ron Paul can't deliver a dayum thing he's saying he will. He'll never get a Constitutionalist Supreme Court nominee past the Democrats much less do away with income tax. Can you say "Robert Bork?" I'm focusing on these areas: Close border, kick illegals out. No amnesty and hoist the "Don't Tread on Me" flag for the whole world to see. When the people rise up against Congress will we see change. Right now you have a Mexican stand off in the House and Senate.
And these people who think Barak Hussain Obama is the messiah scare me. I once thought anybody but Hillary. Now I hope she beats Obama.:smt009

[dollfus46]

My #1 son is pro Obama and he's got quite a head on his shoulders (here's where I pat myself on the back:>) ) and I'd have to agree with him, if Obama is the best leader, then that's what our country needs. But me, I'm looking for substance and I haven't seen any from Obama, flowery speeches are great, but I need substance.
Well, THAT settles it. If your son is all that and a bag of chips, I gotta go with his wisdom. I'm for Obama too.:-D

[dollfus46]

I don't think people are freaking over a woman or AA being president. I think people just don't have a very good option to choose. It's either this way or that and there's no in between with their ideas. .......They all suck!
You, sir, have nailed it. I agree: +21:clap: But what is AA? Symbol for a Camel Rider?:kekeke:

[Conveyor Belt]

I don't think people are freaking over a woman or AA being president.

Um... what rock have you been hiding under? I know lots of white people who are freaking out because Obama may be president. F R E A K I N G OUT! It's a scene, man.

Every now and then, one of them will wink and smirk that he'll never make it to the Oval Office... how's that supposed to be interpreted?

These are white people who like to talk in the presence of other whites. They won't say this stuff in front of blacks. Cowards.

[Luvia]

Um... what rock have you been hiding under? I know lots of white people who are freaking out because Obama may be president. F R E A K I N G OUT! It's a scene, man.

Every now and then, one of them will wink and smirk that he'll never make it to the Oval Office... how's that supposed to be interpreted?

These are white people who like to talk in the presence of other whites. They won't say this stuff in front of blacks. Cowards.

I haven't heard anything even remotely like that...but I don't associate with those sorts of people anyway. I am sure there are some idiots who think that...somewhere...but I talk politics to a lot of people and I don't see *any* of that nonsense.

What is F R E A K I N G me out is any candidate that wants to give illegal aliens citizenship, then give them welfare, medicaid, and social security. Sorry Obama...you lost my vote right there.

[CircusRide]

Um... what rock have you been hiding under? I know lots of white people who are freaking out because Obama may be president. F R E A K I N G OUT! It's a scene, man.

Every now and then, one of them will wink and smirk that he'll never make it to the Oval Office... how's that supposed to be interpreted?

These are white people who like to talk in the presence of other whites. They won't say this stuff in front of blacks. Cowards.


CB, you hanging out in some bad places. Really, I haven't heard much of anything about either. Most people hate Clinton (except liberals). Obama's color hasn't come up in any conversations I've been around other than most believe it's no big deal. Sure, there are some idiots that think it's a bad deal, but most people don't really care what those folks think anyway.

[N40th]

Why is it that "white culture" is racist, but "black culture" isn't?

Even if I assume to know what you mean by "white culture" vs. "black culture" . . . who said it isn't? I already pointed out that folks like Al Sharpton are racists, too.

[dollfus46]

Um... what rock have you been hiding under? I know lots of white people who are freaking out because Obama may be president. F R E A K I N G OUT! It's a scene, man.

Every now and then, one of them will wink and smirk that he'll never make it to the Oval Office... how's that supposed to be interpreted?

These are white people who like to talk in the presence of other whites. They won't say this stuff in front of blacks. Cowards.

I think you might have misread motivations here. I'm freaking out he may be President but it's not because he's black. I'd have voted for Colin Powell for President, I'm pretty sure he's at least as black, Jamaican Black, as Obama Yo Mama. Woman President? Hillary? Scares me to death. But not because she's a woman. I'd have given Elizabeth Dole or Kate Hutcherson the nod for President too. Elizabeth Dole has more sense than anyone running in either party today, in my arrogant opinion.;)

[dollfus46]

CB, you hanging out in some bad places. Really, I haven't heard much of anything about either. Most people hate Clinton (except liberals). Obama's color hasn't come up in any conversations I've been around other than most believe it's no big deal. Sure, there are some idiots that think it's a bad deal, but most people don't really care what those folks think anyway.
The dumbass Media are the only ones making any comment at all about Obama's color, or Hillary's gender for that matter.