Iranian Threat

[BLAW]

I do not know what the commander of the 3 US warship fleet was thinking for 30 minutes while being harrased and threaten by the Iranian 5 "armed" boats, but he should be relieved of his command if he cannot respond in a more timely manner. After 17 americans died from the USS Cole bombing, you would think that we would have our act together. If this country is not capable of taking care of business, then we need to bring it to the house. We also need "politicans" with a pair of b---s that will not continue to pacify the Iranians.

[petalgirl00]

um..do you want ww3? Also if he fired upon those ships, all holy hell could of broken out. The Iranians could have called for backup and many lives could have been lost. I think he did what was right, evasive maneuvers. Many of those countries like to play cat and mouse.

[Maggie-Doodle]

Actually I was surprised they didn't shoot at the Iranians...Bush is so damn gung-ho to get in war with Iran...

Back in 1969 when I was living in Gulfport, I dated a guy that was a Lt. in the Iranian A/F and was training at Keesler....those damn folks (Iranians) are crazy!

[aaron]

We're in their territory, not the other way around. If a Iranian warship was in the Gulf right now, we would blow it out of the water. They are holding back, we don't. We stick our finger in people's faces waiting for them to do something. I really don't know what else you want.

[dollfus46]

We're in their territory, not the other way around. If a Iranian warship was in the Gulf right now, we would blow it out of the water. They are holding back, we don't. We stick our finger in people's faces waiting for them to do something. I really don't know what else you want.

What makes you think we were in their territory instead of international waters? The way I read it they were taunting us, not holding back.

[aaron]

What makes you think we were in their territory instead of international waters? The way I read it they were taunting us, not holding back.

No, seriously, put a Iranian battleship in International waters off the coast of New York. What do you think will happen?

[CircusRide]

Damn, ya'll are a bunch of @$!%!
The strait is an international passage. It's part of the reason we went after Hussien. His moves indicated he was trying to gain control of that passage. Do you know how many barrels of oil are transported through that strait a day?
Had the Iranians screwed around much more they were going to be toast and we had every right to blow them out of the water.

[petalgirl00]

Just because you have every right does not mean that it is prudent to do so when you have thousands of lives in your care.

[TheStereoGuy]

My opinion, the Iranian government sent those ships out there begging our ships to shoot at them. They wanted us to give them a reason to legally declare ware and invade Iraq themselves to "Protect our country by pushing the Americans out of a a neighboring country that they are using as a stage for invasion." They were there to taunt us into giving them a reason to attack. The used civilian boats so it would look like we were attacking site seeing civilians.

And you can bet that our ships were told before those arrived "Do not shoot unless they fire first, and have camera's recording so you can prove it when they do."

The radar systems on those ships are powerful enough to detect those speed boats miles before they are in visual range, and should the captain of the US boat decided to do so, he could have blown them away at the push of a button. The fact he let them get that close after what happened with the USS Cole a couple years ago shows great restraint on his part. He could have sunk them before they new we had fired a shot or before they had even seen our ships.

[N40th]

Our ships were in international waters, much as the Brits were several months back when the Iranians took them hostage. Unlike the British motherships, though, our vessels were prepared to destroy the Iranians, and our gunners were at the ready. But the Iranians backed off, so there's no need to question our guys' testicular status.

(After all, the Iranians ought to remember the naval asswhipping we gave them in April of '88.)

There's no logical way to paint Iran as the good guy or even a sympathetic group in this engagement, and it's silly to try.

This isn't like the Gulf of Mexico, where if you pull up within a few miles of Mobile you're obviously up to no good because you're largely surrounded by sovereign US territory . . . this is the Strait of Hormuz, sea lane to Kuwait, Iraq, ports of eastern Saudi Arabia and western UAE, and so on. A bunch of unflagged speedboats zipping around a few hundred yards from our ships is not an instant cause for the unleashing of hell, but our boys were ready and . . . had the Iranians pressed further . . . willing. They did just fine.

[mac]

I don't know what makes you think the commander didn't have any balls. The report I heard said that they were preparing to fire on the Iranian ship but didn't because they turned around and went the other way.

[CircusRide]

So many people are so quick to blame our own military for defending themselves....
It's basically just like N40 said.

[TheStereoGuy]

Just in case my point was missed, I wasn't blaming the commander of the US ships for anything. I was giving him kudo's for NOT blowing them away, just in case they did happen to be curious civilians that just wanted a picture. However, had that of been me, the minute that one said " I come to you and you blow up ", the button would have been pressed, whether he was headed home already or not.

Did you know that we have a gun on those ships that can shoot down incoming mortor rounds from the air?? Those things take 8-30 seconds to hit there target from launch ( depending on distance away ) and are about 6-8 inches long and 2-3 inches wide. That gun can track and shoot them down before impact. There are 2 of these on each our cruisers I know, and at least 1 of our ships in that group was a cruiser, maybe 2 of them ( the report I read said 1 of each but didn't say what kind of ship the 3rd lead ship was, only its name ).

Imagine it unleashing on those boats. Here is a land based version test.

Phalanx (CIWS)

[N40th]

Phalanx, like Metal Storm, makes me happy in my pants.

[wilebill]

My BIL designs and builds expensive things that blow up other expensive things, and maybe some not so expensive things. Some of his things blew up a lot of things in Iraq.

He never runs out of ideas, and the gov't never runs out of money to buy those things.

[ComputerDude]

From what I read a few days ago, they haven't yet confirmed these moves were ordered by the Iranian government. It's possible it was a rogue group trying to instigate a war between the US and Iran.

[jojobeans1120]

From what I read a few days ago, they haven't yet confirmed these moves were ordered by the Iranian government. It's possible it was a rogue group trying to instigate a war between the US and Iran.


Yep, a rogue group lead by Ahmadinejad. :smt023 I agree with what someone else said, (sorry I can't remember who) THEY WANT US TO attack them! They want to have an excuse for constantly showing their asses.

[dollfus46]

No, seriously, put a Iranian battleship in International waters off the coast of New York. What do you think will happen?
We'd watch them, but we wouldnt' do a thing. Heck, Russian Migs flew over Charleston almost daily during the cold war. They'd fly so low you could see the pilot smile. Our scramblers would escort them back out over international waters. What were Russian Migs doing flying over charleston? Charleston is/was a huge Nuclear Sub base. They were counting the subs in port so they'd know how many were out off their coast getting info!:smt023

[TheStereoGuy]

Phalanx, like Metal Storm, makes me happy in my pants.

I posted vids of Metal Storm here (http://www.myhattiesburg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25358) if you havn't seen those vids yet.

Those ships could have used the 5 inch guns on those boats instead of the Phalanx.

5 inch gun

[N40th]

While I do like the big guns (O Iowa Class, how we miss thee), I have to admit that there's something about utterly ridiculous rate of fire that just tickles my neurons that little bit more.

[dollfus46]

First, I think Iran is playing with us knowing full well International opinion will be against us if we blow up their ships. Secondly, the report that Iran isn't trying to make a nuclear bomb is a big fat lie. We're stupid if we swallow that crap. Why in the world would a country who has enough oil to last a millenium, want nuclear power. Why would they want to spend billions building nuclear plants and billions more for places to store the spent cells when they's have to wade through oil to get to those plants?

[Maggie-Doodle]

I would hope that our military would take out the smaller "boats" had they kept coming...we don't need to take chances with those idiots. I am really surprised that Bush hasn't "found reason" for us to attack the Iranians...he just seems to be "itching" to do so...

I am just to the point I am tired of us loosing our men and women to police the world..damn, some of these countries need to try and protect themselves. We are NOT the world police. As long as we are willing to send out people in to do the dirty work and get killed WHY would they want to send their folks in? If I had someone to do my fighting for me, why would I want to jump in the ring to get all bloodied up?

[dollfus46]

I would hope that our military would take out the smaller "boats" had they kept coming...we don't need to take chances with those idiots. I am really surprised that Bush hasn't "found reason" for us to attack the Iranians...he just seems to be "itching" to do so...

I am just to the point I am tired of us loosing our men and women to police the world..damn, some of these countries need to try and protect themselves. We are NOT the world police. As long as we are willing to send out people in to do the dirty work and get killed WHY would they want to send their folks in? If I had someone to do my fighting for me, why would I want to jump in the ring to get all bloodied up?
There could be several reasons. All of them because it is to our advantage to do so, or because we have a treaty with the country to protect them. A treaty the U.S. signed, not necessarily Bush.

[aaron]

So, now the Navy has admitted that the aggressive talk they had recorded could have come from someone other than the Iranians. Basically confirming the Iranians story that they weren't being aggressive at all and that the audio the U.S. put out had to be a forgery. Geez, a war was almost started because someone was talking on the radio and the Navy believed that it was Iran. Is it really that easy?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2240533,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

[CircusRide]

So, now the Navy has admitted that the aggressive talk they had recorded could have come from someone other than the Iranians. Basically confirming the Iranians story that they weren't being aggressive at all and that the audio the U.S. put out had to be a forgery. Geez, a war was almost started because someone was talking on the radio and the Navy believed that it was Iran. Is it really that easy?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2240533,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

Actually, the updated version shows that the US wasn't even actually considering firing on the Iranians. There's so many sides to this story that's it's crazy. Both the government and news media can be blamed on this one.

[aaron]

They can say what they want, but I really think they were quick to judge on this one and Bush wanted to use it to say "See, the Iranians are dangerous". After some investigation, they figured out they might have been wrong. When Iran puts out the correct version, and the U.S. version is found to be some kid with a microphone, that's bad.

[CircusRide]

Sounds to me like they need to go after the kid.

[aaron]

Apparently, they can't find him. He's been doing this to them for months, for hours at time, shouting things into their radio, and they are powerless.

[CircusRide]

Maybe he's really OsamaBL because they can't find him either.

[aaron]

What makes you think we were in their territory instead of international waters? The way I read it they were taunting us, not holding back.

Today a story was released saying that it wasn't international waters.



In other words, US warships transiting through Hormuz must, in effect, act as non-war ships, "temporarily depriving themselves of their armed might". And any "warning shots" fired by US ships at Iranian boats, inspecting the US ships under customary international laws, must be considered an infringement on Iran's rights. This technically warrants a legal backlash in the form of the Iranians temporary suspending the US warships' right of passage. Again, the US could be technically prosecuted by Iran in international forums for conducting questionable activities while in Iranian territorial waters.


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JA15Ak02.html

And then there's this by Kucinich:


“After the lies and deception used to lead us to war in Iraq, the Bush Administration cannot be given leeway with aggressive statements that suggest a preemptive attack on Iran is necessary to avoid a larger war,” Kucinich said.

A National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) report released just last month reaffirmed that Iran does not have an active weapons program, which is in direct opposition to unsubstantiated claims made by the Bush Administration over the last several months. Just last week, the Administration accused small Iranian boats swarming around U.S. warships in the Strait of Hormuz with harassment and provocation.


http://www.commondreams.org/news2008/0114-14.htm

[dollfus46]

Today a story was released saying that it wasn't international waters.




http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JA15Ak02.html

And then there's this by Kucinich:



http://www.commondreams.org/news2008/0114-14.htm
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I'm not quite sure what to think. I'm certainly not willing to believe Asian Times and Dennis Kucinich. Nor am I willing to believe Bush any longer. I reserve judgement until someone comes along that I trust. I don't see how Bush can want war with Iran unless he's just nuts. It's one thing to defend ourselves, it'd take a loon to push Iran into a war in the situation we're in now.

[aaron]

I'm not quite sure what to think. I'm certainly not willing to believe Asian Times and Dennis Kucinich. Nor am I willing to believe Bush any longer. I reserve judgement until someone comes along that I trust. I don't see how Bush can want war with Iran unless he's just nuts. It's one thing to defend ourselves, it'd take a loon to push Iran into a war in the situation we're in now.

Well, we definitely agree on that.

[dollfus46]

Well, we definitely agree on that.

:clap: Yea for us!! Bush is beginning to scare me.

[Desert Donkey]

No, seriously, put a Iranian battleship in International waters off the coast of New York. What do you think will happen?

The same thing that happened when the Russians parked their submarines off our coastlines; we watch them carefully and continue mission.

If those cute lil' Iranian bathtub toys get within a certain distance of ANY country's warships(not just those of the BAD OL' USA!), then they would be engaged and destroyed. Does that make the British, Russian, Dutch, French, Argentinian, Chinese, Italian or German Navies as bad as our Navy? Or is it just the BAD OL' USA that must bear the blame for everything?

Are you a member of Democratic Undergound?

[aaron]

The same thing that happened when the Russians parked their submarines off our coastlines; we watch them carefully and continue mission.

If those cute lil' Iranian bathtub toys get within a certain distance of ANY country's warships(not just those of the BAD OL' USA!), then they would be engaged and destroyed. Does that make the British, Russian, Dutch, French, Argentinian, Chinese, Italian or German Navies as bad as our Navy? Or is it just the BAD OL' USA that must bear the blame for everything?

Are you a member of Democratic Undergound?

So, if they would be destroyed, then why is ours being surveyed by attack boats near Iran's coast viewed as aggression? We would watch them carefully here, and that's what they were doing there. Under U.N. treaties, we can't have weaponized boats in those waters.