Progress Hattiesburg.

[Fire Extinguisher]

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080229/NEWS01/802290302

For or against?

The city has to do something and this tax, if it clears all the hurdles in front of it, would be a tax on non city residents as well. I don' live in the 'burg, or work for them anymore but my family does spend money there, use the streets...etc.

I vote for.

[Fire Extinguisher]

Oh yea, I don't know how to put one of those poll thingys up... and don't have the time to look and see how its done.

It would be nice if a person that does would do that!

[Maggie-Doodle]

I would not have a problem voting for it IF it is administered like it is suppose to be.

From what I understand the money is project specific which would mean they have to list what the money will be used for and it can't be used elsewhere...for example, IF they say it is to be used for water/sewer work on Hardy St., they can't divert the funds for a project on Broadway Dr. Once that project is finished/paid for the tax goes away. To do another project the city would have to go through the process again.

I was surprised at how many things that wouldn't be taxed...makes me wonder IF they will actually make as much money as they think on the few items that will be taxed. :smt102

[Fire Extinguisher]

I guess all businesses will have to program their registers to know what to tax a each different rate also.

Could be a nightmare for some!

[Conveyor Belt]

Yet another reason to do business in Petal. THANKS Hattiesburg!!!

[damnyank]

One thing that comes to mind - is why should I (a resident of Petal) pay for H-burg's sewer repairs? They sure aren't paying for Petal's - but I am! :smt102

[Fire Extinguisher]

One thing that comes to mind - is why should I (a resident of Petal) pay for H-burg's sewer repairs? They sure aren't paying for Petal's - but I am! :smt102


But hey... we do pump our poop across the river..... for a fee!

[damnyank]

But hey... we do pump our poop across the river..... for a fee!

True - now if we could get them to keep the smell on their side of the river, a lot more folks in Petal would be happy! :laugh::laugh:

[JB2379]

I definitely support it - NOW!

[wilebill]

I haven't seen enough info to make an informed decision. But I am skeptical.

[Fish-Bait]

One thing that comes to mind - is why should I (a resident of Petal) pay for H-burg's sewer repairs? They sure aren't paying for Petal's - but I am! :smt102

Have you ever pee-pee'd in the Burg?:bowrofl:

[CircusRide]

What the heck is the Oasis Lounge going in the old Dress For Less building?

[Fish-Bait]

sounds like a place to get drunk.

[Fire Extinguisher]

sounds like a place to get drunk.


Is that not every place?

[damnyank]

Have you ever pee-pee'd in the Burg?:bowrofl:

Yes - I think I have since they moved the boundry to include 98 Wally World! :smt118

[CircusRide]

Maybe the progress can start with the jackass clown from the tax office who's going to get his ass whipped the next time he smarts off about parking in one of the downtown parking lots. I don't know who the old guy is, but he knows I've got a long middle finger now. Old jackass!

[Fire Extinguisher]

Maybe the progress can start with the jackass clown from the tax office who's going to get his ass whipped the next time he smarts off about parking in one of the downtown parking lots. I don't know who the old guy is, but he knows I've got a long middle finger now. Old jackass!

I think that would be the tax collector, and this has already been discussed with him.... he thinks he personally owns that whole parking area!

[Hub a Bubba]

Somebody needs to try the new math on this one. If 7% sales tax now brings in about 22 million per year, then 1% will only bring in about 3 million extra per year..NOT 10 million. If the project cost 30 million, then it would take 10 years to pay it off.
Add interest to that and you would need 10 more year to pay off the interest.????
This is something that HAS to be done, but don't blow smoke up my fanny like the OG City was trying to do.

[wilebill]

Somebody needs to try the new math on this one. If 7% sales tax now brings in about 22 million per year, then 1% will only bring in about 3 million extra per year..NOT 10 million.
I was thinking the exact same thing.

[Fire Extinguisher]

Not sure, but if the 22 million is what Hattiesburg recieves back from the state that is only a portion of what is actually collected within the city.

Its a valid question and bears further examination.

[Concernedforhburg]

Downtown railroad overpass (EAS&E), $1 million

West Fourth Street (widen to three lanes), from Hutchinson Avenue to Jackson Street, $2.7 million

Beverly Hills Road, from Seventh Street to Campbell Loop Drive, $1.4 million

Martin Luther King Avenue, from Tuscan Avenue to Helveston Road, $1 million

W.S.F. Tatum Road, from Burger Middle School to Edwards Street, $1.9 million

Truck route along railroad right-of-way, from Edwards Street to East Hardy Street, $6.8 million

Lamar Boulevard, from U.S. 98 to Lincoln Road, $1.4. million

South 28th Avenue, from Alice Drive to Richburg Road, $1.8 million

South 40th Avenue, from Lincoln Road to Mamie Street, $2.1 million

Lincoln Road extension, traffic signals at Hegwood, Lamar Boulevard and Old Highway 11, $500,000

Interstate 59, from Richburg Road to U.S. 11, $500,000

Upgrade water treatment plant No. 2, $2.5 million

Interstate 59, from Westover Drive to Thornhill, $200,000

Palmer's Crossing (fire protection), from James Street to John Merle Tatum, $600,000

U.S. 11 South, from Jervis Mims Road to Sullivan-Kilrain, $300,000

West side of U.S. 49 North (fire protection), north of Rawls Spring Loop Road, $300,000

24-in sewer line along Mississippi 42, from Glendale Avenue to Leaf River, $1.1 million

18-in sewer line along Gordon's Creek, from Broad Street to West Pine Street, $200,000

New sewer line (East Hardy Street Connector Road and Klondike Street), from East Hardy to James Street, $700,000

[Concernedforhburg]

When looking at the detail projects proposed, I find several that I think the city could do without. Reducing the expense.

One additional thing I would like to know is, who owns the land which would be purchased to add the new streets or extensions? Are these properties Dupree supporters?

These estimates for road repairs, how old are they? Were the jobs put out for bid? Has the recent increase in fuel expense been taken into account for these projects and adjusted?

Like most, I wonder if the proposal was approved by a legitimate vote, would those projects actually be what gets done, or would the mayor divert funds to pave only his supporters streets while ignoring other areas of the city as in the past.

Voting for or against this proposal must be a concern for all, how can the citizens of Hattiesburg trust an election of any type run by the City of Hattiesburg? When the voter rolls were stolen in the still unresolved insider break in of city hall. Why can't the criminal element just submit thousands of absentee ballets and steal the decision? Where is the fair and balanced representation for all under this administration.

Now, on Tax's. Why can't one percent of the two percent food and beverage tax which is already in place be diverted from the Convention Center & ADP to fund these projects and not placing any additional burden on the community?

[brianinms]

" West Fourth Street (widen to three lanes), from Hutchinson Avenue to Jackson Street, $2.7 million"



Why in the world is this being considered? They should widen West 4th street from 38th to Weathersby!

[Scarlett O'Hara]

I really understand that the city needs more money for certain projects but after all you can only get so much blood out of the turnip!!!

[rhs]

Thank the lord I moved to Texas! No tax on food! :clap: I do miss Hattiesburg and all our friends there and will be back to see everyone next week!

[justme]

When looking at the detail projects proposed, I find several that I think the city could do without. Reducing the expense.

One additional thing I would like to know is, who owns the land which would be purchased to add the new streets or extensions? Are these properties Dupree supporters?

These estimates for road repairs, how old are they? Were the jobs put out for bid? Has the recent increase in fuel expense been taken into account for these projects and adjusted?

Like most, I wonder if the proposal was approved by a legitimate vote, would those projects actually be what gets done, or would the mayor divert funds to pave only his supporters streets while ignoring other areas of the city as in the past.

Voting for or against this proposal must be a concern for all, how can the citizens of Hattiesburg trust an election of any type run by the City of Hattiesburg? When the voter rolls were stolen in the still unresolved insider break in of city hall. Why can't the criminal element just submit thousands of absentee ballets and steal the decision? Where is the fair and balanced representation for all under this administration.

Now, on Tax's. Why can't one percent of the two percent food and beverage tax which is already in place be diverted from the Convention Center & ADP to fund these projects and not placing any additional burden on the community?

I was on this committee that advised the mayor on these projects. I ended up on the committee because I asked the mayor too many questions, but I am glad that at the time, i actually had some input into what was the plan for the money IF this thing passes. There are many hurdles this plan has to pass before it can become reality, it is a long shot. I wanted to be able to have input in to how my tax dollars were going to be spent. I remember working on this in 2005 late in the year. So these numbers are quite old, and some of the revenue numbers seemed to be based on the post Katrina Boom. I may still have a copy of the proposal at my office. I don't remember - I was cleaning out stuff the other day and may have thrown it away.

[Maggie-Doodle]

Like most, I wonder if the proposal was approved by a legitimate vote, would those projects actually be what gets done, or would the mayor divert funds to pave only his supporters streets while ignoring other areas of the city as in the past.



IF passed and it will be a BIG IF...the money would be project specific...if it is earmarked for say Hardy St. then it has to be spent on Hardy St. The money could not be used for anything else. Once that specific project was finished so would be the tax...in order to do another project the whole process of going to the legislature and being voted on would have to occur again.

I would be concerned as to what the specific project would be BEFORE I would vote for it.

[countrygirl]

I think this would encourage even more businesses to move to Petal. I'm glad Chili's is in Petal now. I don't have to pay the extra restaurant tax in Hattiesburg now! By the way, I live in Forrest County. It is equally convenient for me to shop in Hattiesburg or in Petal. If they pass the extra tax, I will be doing MOST of my shopping in Petal. I would think that Hattiesburg has a chance of actually losing money on this deal since there are so many folks like me that are from surrounding areas that shop in the burg....Now if Petal would just get a Lowe's, I probably wouldn't have to worry about Hattiesburg at all!

[thrillseeker]

I think this would encourage even more businesses to move to Petal. I'm glad Chili's is in Petal now. I don't have to pay the extra restaurant tax in Hattiesburg now! By the way, I live in Forrest County. It is equally convenient for me to shop in Hattiesburg or in Petal. If they pass the extra tax, I will be doing MOST of my shopping in Petal. I would think that Hattiesburg has a chance of actually losing money on this deal since there are so many folks like me that are from surrounding areas that shop in the burg....Now if Petal would just get a Lowe's, I probably wouldn't have to worry about Hattiesburg at all!

Lowe's has bought or is in the process of buying the land now Country Girl. I know this because it will butt up to my neighborhood. We have a neighbor that is selling their land to Lowe's but I dont know when the deal will go through. So you in the future you wont have to worry with Hattiesburg.

[dollfus46]

Thank the lord I moved to Texas! No tax on food! :clap: I do miss Hattiesburg and all our friends there and will be back to see everyone next week!
Hi rhs. Sorry you moved away. I did too. I come back once a year and have a big get together with old friends. It's fun.

[damnyank]

Lowe's has bought or is in the process of buying the land now Country Girl. I know this because it will butt up to my neighborhood. We have a neighbor that is selling their land to Lowe's but I dont know when the deal will go through. So you in the future you wont have to worry with Hattiesburg.

Smalll world isnt it thrillseeker? Actually I heard there were two of my neighbors who sold to Lowes - one sold land and another sold land and a house!

[brianinms]

Why does the city of hattiesburg feel they need to raise taxes in the first place? Shouldn't the taxes that we already pay cover these expenses? Perhaps if the city did a better job of managing its resources we wouldn't have this issue.

[Concernedforhburg]

I'm glad to see additional comments on this subject. Hope the council members are looking.

[countrygirl]

I think Hattiesburg could easily end up losing more taxes than they make if they pass this extra tax. The burg get a lot of its sales tax from folks that live in surrounding areas. I know that the extra tax would influence me as to where I do my shopping, especially for big ticket items like furniture and televisions. It would also mean that I would do more shopping at the Petal Walmart rather than the Hattiesburg Walmart. I know that groceries would not be taxed, but a lot of what I buy at Walmart is not food. Things like cleaning supplies, toilet paper, computer supplies, ect. would be subject to the extra tax. It just might be that places like Laurel, Petal, Mcgee, Jackson, Picayune, and the coast might just profit more from this tax than Hattiesburg.

[Fire Extinguisher]

I think Hattiesburg could easily end up losing more taxes than they make if they pass this extra tax. The burg get a lot of its sales tax from folks that live in surrounding areas. I know that the extra tax would influence me as to where I do my shopping, especially for big ticket items like furniture and televisions. It would also mean that I would do more shopping at the Petal Walmart rather than the Hattiesburg Walmart. I know that groceries would not be taxed, but a lot of what I buy at Walmart is not food. Things like cleaning supplies, toilet paper, computer supplies, ect. would be subject to the extra tax. It just might be that places like Laurel, Petal, Mcgee, Jackson, Picayune, and the coast might just profit more from this tax than Hattiesburg.


No, I think that most will no even be aware that it happened... those outside the city. The few that will try to buy elsewhere will soon forget(mot of them anyway)

[Dixie Tree Slayer]

This is kind of funny in a weird sort of way. I drive to Hattiesburg for a lot of things that I can't find here in Picayune. I don't go to Slidell even if it is closer by 30 minutes because their taxes are higher than Ms. So if they pass such an intelligent thing I will probably go to the coast from now on...

I do remember the legislature many years ago placing a "luxury tax" on yachts with the intentions of collecting more taxes from the rich. What happened is the rich decided since they were going to spend the money anyway is use that extra money and go out of country to buy a new boat. They found the boats cheaper and without the "luxury tax". Suddenly the people who have been building boats for several generations found they couldn't sell hardly any boats. They laid their workers off and went out of business.

I wonder if this will happen to the merchants of Hattiesburg? Will a lot of people that come to shop in the Burg find themselves going elsewhere and driving the tax revenue way down on the process? Seems to me if they were really wanting to increase revenues they would take a bolder step and do something along the lines of making it advantageous to shop in the burg.
Florida has a big tax on a lot of touristy items to let the tourists pay for much of what Florida needs. But they have many destinations that you can't find anywhere else. So people in essence have to go there for their vacation. Hattiesburg has little that I can't find somewhere else really close by.

If I were a merchant in Hattiesburg I know this would be something that scared me....

[Dixie Tree Slayer]

And I do scrutinize my receipts for errors and such and also ALWAYS look at the taxes... Slidell and Louisiana have some very high taxes... Thats why I rarely go there...

[countrygirl]

I check my receipts too Dixie. One other thought....folks that have the most money to spend probably are more aware of things like this and have the capability of going elsewhere with their money to buy their big ticket items.

[Fire Extinguisher]

I remember the boat thing DTS......that was a Dem trick at buying votes by punishing the rich.... seems it did backfire.

[maxim]

I see a lack of preventative maintenance in HBG's infrastructure. That is the sort of thing that isn't very visible or popular to spend $ on yet it needs to be there for so many things. Money spent on infrastructure is rarely wasted, since so often the current infrastructure is inadequate.

Prospective employers look at what is in place when they decide where to locate. Not maintaining what you have leads to sudden emergency repairs that only delay further expense. Inflation always makes it cheaper to do it now, rather than wait until something is worn out or gridlocked.

Example - the HPD building, the old hospital. How many folks on this list work in an office with no hot water? Some office spaces there have hot water, some don't. It is a depressing, run-down dump. Why not hold the next years worth of city council meetings there and move the council members offices there for a year?

Example - the HFD headquarters, the former motel. Run down, mold-ridden and certainly not designed as a fire department.

HBG has some great public facilities - the library, for one. City Hall for another (go figure!) Others are adequate, if not palatial. But some buildings need replacement very badly.

It's not just buildings, they are just the most visible symptom of a wide-spread problem. Sewer lines, water mains, road networks are equally as vital.

Taxes pay for these things. Lots of other folks pay lots more taxes. You get what you pay for. If you keep doing things on the cheap, you get a cheap product.

For example, improved police officer pay and working conditions have led to a law enforcement service that most folks seem pretty satisfied with. A few years ago that service was not seen as satisfactory. Pay was not the only factor, but it was a factor. Now we see similar pay-driven concerns (albeit not quite as severe) with the fire department.

Folks are quick to complain about taxes. Paying them isn't fun, but it is part of the social compact that says we will support those services government provides for us. The infrastructure of Hattiesburg demands regular maintenance and replacement, no two ways about it. Do you think sewer lines and water mains last forever? One quick story from a former city of residence. A fairly major street, perhaps like West Fourth Street here, had an old water line. Big, 8 or 10 inches. Old, like 60, 80 or more years old. One day there was a need to shut down a section for a minor repair. Should have been a one-backhoe job, dig down and fix a leaky valve or corporation connection, done in a few hours. The worker shutting off the water flow closed the valve too quickly for the age of the main and the momentum of the water. For a mile along that road the main ruptured every 100 feet or so as the water slammed into the closed valve and rebounded over and over like a giant water hammer. When all was said and done the entire stretch of water line was replaced and the entire road was repaved. All this because an old water line wasn't replaced on a rational basis.

Nothing lasts forever. Not police stations, not fire stations, not sewer mains, not water lines, not streets, nothing. Fail to replace them at your peril.

[Ted]

. . . . .

Nothing lasts forever. Not police stations, not fire stations, not sewer mains, not water lines, not streets, nothing. Fail to replace them at your peril.All true.
And - emergency repairs cost a lot more than predicted preventive maintenance.

Right here in H'burg - maybe 20 years ago - a wooden barrel stave type line was found somewhere in the area of Hardy Street and 2nd Ave.
These old lines were constructed in the same manner as a wooden barrel - wood staves and iron circumferential hoops.
How old do ya suppose that thing was??
I didn't get much detail but it was probably a storm drain line.

[Concernedforhburg]

Hi Maxim. You are very correct, infrastructure maintenance is unpopular costly and very necessary. When I looked back at the list published in the HA, only three or four of the projects were for that purpose.

I'm still seeing the majority of the projects in PROGRESS HATTIESBURG as pet projects for the Mayor and several not necessary. If the Mayor wants my support, he is going to have to drop all the East Hattiesburg projects and increase the number of projects in the business areas.

Did anyone see a single dollar proposed for the downtown streets?

[primetime]

I think that would be the tax collector, and this has already been discussed with him.... he thinks he personally owns that whole parking area!

Sounds like he's got quite the mouth on him, LOL! Territorial tax collector...there's a first!

I'm all for paying tax to get stuff fixed in the city, as long as they publish accurate records of how much money comes in and how it's spent. The records must be available for public viewing, at any given time. The minute there's foul play, all bets are off.

[Maggie-Doodle]

Hi Maxim. You are very correct, infrastructure maintenance is unpopular costly and very necessary. When I looked back at the list published in the HA, only three or four of the projects were for that purpose.

I'm still seeing the majority of the projects in PROGRESS HATTIESBURG as pet projects for the Mayor and several not necessary. If the Mayor wants my support, he is going to have to drop all the East Hattiesburg projects and increase the number of projects in the business areas.

Did anyone see a single dollar proposed for the downtown streets?


IF I am not mistaken the funds are already in place for the downtown streets to be repaved. New lighting is fixing to be installed downtown and I understand then the streets will be redone...hopefully by the end of summer or late fall.

[XC9]

I'm glad to see additional comments on this subject. Hope the council members are looking.
Not sure why you think it matters if they are looking or not. There may be 1 council person that cares what people think. The others don't give a crap about anyone but themselves and, what a few of their old cronies think. Hattiesburgs government has changed for the worst and I do not see it as ever getting any better. I like your screen name, because you are extremely right to be concerned. :smt023

[quicksilver74]

yep the city does not receive all of the 7% sales tax, most of it goes to the state.
Of which they owe me $ 700! yeah

[Concernedforhburg]

Not sure why you think it matters if they are looking or not. There may be 1 council person that cares what people think. The others don't give a crap about anyone but themselves and, what a few of their old cronies think. Hattiesburgs government has changed for the worst and I do not see it as ever getting any better. I like your screen name, because you are extremely right to be concerned. :smt023



You were right.

[wilebill]

On WDAM tonight, they reported that Progress Hattiesburg is more than likely dead because the legislature probably won't vote on it. Area legislators were opposed to it for several reasons, one being that they didn't want to raise taxes.

I'd give a link to the story but WDAM's website is so screwed up that they don't have anything updated and you couldn't find it if they did.

[Concernedforhburg]

DuPree's plan facing trouble
By VALERIE WELLS

Progress Hattiesburg could face trouble from Pine Belt lawmakers when it reaches the state Senate.

Senator Tom King, R-Petal, said Monday he opposes the measure that could mean an increase in the local sales tax on many retail products to pay for infrastructure improvements in the city.

Rep. Percy Watson, D-Hattiesburg and chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, said Monday he will introduce the Progress Hattiesburg bill this week.

"I support it. We won't have problems passing it in the House," Watson said to a Monday morning Area Development Partnership gathering.

The bill faces problems in the Senate, but Watson predicts if it does pass and makes it to the governor's desk that Gov. Haley Barbour will sign it.


I knew a member of the main street mafia would be in support of this bill. Hope he is aware of the large numbers of letters being mailed out stating that this is a bad idea for Hattiesburg.

It is too bad that the mayor can't understand, I'm not against infrastructure upgrades, I just don't support the new construction proposed in his proposal. With no guarantees where the money will be spent, the major areas where the tax burden will come from will more than likely be ignored.

No support under his conditions.

[HubDoc]

I would love infrastructure upgrades here in Hattiesburg, but I don't think that Progress Hattiesburg will ever really work. I think I personally would vote for it, just because anything would help, but we just have to be garunteed that the money is spent in the specified manner. We'll have to wait and see.

[Concernedforhburg]

But after being brought forward for reconsideration, and then passing through the Senate's Local and Private Committee, the proposal died in the Senate's Finance Committee.

The answer to how city officials will pay for several of Hattiesburg's infrastructure problems was given Tuesday when Mayor Johnny DuPree announced the city would receive more than $9 million in federal funding.


DuPree said the city would receive $1.4 million to rebuild Fire Station No. 1 in the 800 block of North Main Street and $2.36 million dollars to repair and improve the city's Water Treatment Facility on James Street.


There is an option other than taxing all of the residents and visitors of Hattiesburg.

[lamarrebel]

The voters of Hattiesburg should have the right to decide, not the Legislature.

But, it should be voted down. With the economy as gas prices as is, this just isn't the time for greater taxation.