Religious Freedom or . . Not?

[SueScribe]

What with the cable news channels going ape-poop over the Polygymist sect in Texas right now (and, I have a general question: What's up with Texas as these freak-o's? Is Texas giving away large chunks of bramble bush-land to outlanders or what, exactly?)

Anyway. Let's vote on something out of the political mainstream and into the Religious Freedom wild river:

What do you think? Should the government have interferred, removed these children, en masse, or not? Do you think it is an infringement upon our Constitutional guarantees to practice freedom of religion?

[58ford]

If the Clinton/Reno thugs had intervened those folks would be smoking embers by now.

[hendrixfreak70]

What with the cable news channels going ape-poop over the Polygymist sect in Texas right now (and, I have a general question: What's up with Texas as these freak-o's? Is Texas giving away large chunks of bramble bush-land to outlanders or what, exactly?)

Anyway. Let's vote on something out of the political mainstream and into the Religious Freedom wild river:

What do you think? Should the government have interferred, removed these children, en masse, or not? Do you think it is an infringement upon our Constitutional guarantees to practice freedom of religion?

Hmmm. That's a tough one. I believe the role of the government was always intended to be limited. In recent years it hasn't been. However, this case is tough. Let us hope they don't go Waco or Ruby Ridge on them. You know, AKs, tanks, tear gas, ATF squads etc etc. I think when children are involved and the harm is blatantly obvious then yes, the state should intervene not the Fed.

[SueScribe]

One of the strangest - not THE strangest, but one of - things I heard on the coverage of this "sect" was that the women had multiple husbands and multiple children at the election of said husbands because . . .

THAT is how they "get into heaven". Seems the husband(s) can veto entry if the women don't obey them.

[hendrixfreak70]

One of the strangest - not THE strangest, but one of - things I heard on the coverage of this "sect" was that the women had multiple husbands and multiple children at the election of said husbands because . . .

THAT is how they "get into heaven". Seems the husband(s) can veto entry if the women don't obey them.

That IS heaven, darling!

[jkspatty]

If abuse and sexual activity with minors were indeed happening, then YES the gov should intervene. If people are being held against their will then YES the gov should intervene. I could care less what consenting adults do but when it involves people who are powerless to help themselves, then it is our duty to help them. I personally don't think polygamy is about religion at all, it is about sex.

[mac]

Let's remember that the authorities knew about these people for years and suspected them of abuse for years but didn't interfere until they received complaints from within the compound. At that point, with probable cause for abuse, they had no choice.

I think the authorities did what they had to do. To say that they overstepped their rights when they waited for years for someone to complain is just asinine.

[SueScribe]

I personally don't think polygamy is about religion at all, it is about sex.

And power and subjugation.

[SueScribe]

That IS heaven, darling!

Yeah, may be. But - in this case we ain't talkin' about a dozen virgins waiting on the other side, are we? :-D

[amanda]

Yes, I believe the state/local government should step in - in fact they should have done it a lot earlier than they did. However, I also think the media is doing it's usual "drive a story into the ground" maneuver. Must not be much else going on in the world right now. The torch is back in Bejing after all. The only thing that may change the current 24 hour coverage of the crazy sect in Texas is if the Pope get's an ingrown toe tail while he is here. :)

[SueScribe]

If the Clinton/Reno thugs had intervened those folks would be smoking embers by now.

Yep. Thankfully, the Texas Rangers have better sense.

[aaron]

I just don't understand a religion that is as closed to the world as FLDS is.

[hendrixfreak70]

Yeah, may be. But - in this case we ain't talkin' about a dozen virgins waiting on the other side, are we? :-D

See the Muslims are wrong, there are no virgins left in the world. I made sure of it.

[SueScribe]

The torch is back in Bejing after all.[/quote0

Is it still lit? :smt118

[quote=amanda;521167]The only thing that may change the current 24 hour coverage of the crazy sect in Texas is if the Pope get's an ingrown toe tail while he is here. :)

Yeah. They're not even covering Stephen Colbert's North Carolina coverage this week (except on Larry King last night, and po' ol' Larry didn't even "get it" when Colbert talked about Obama passing around the "change bong").

By the way, I got my invite to go to NC today. Need to sign up, I reckon.

Maybe I'll get to say at the Y.

:smt118

[Conveyor Belt]

I just don't understand a religion that is as closed to the world as FLDS is.

There are more offshoots to mainstream religions that are as closed as FLDS.

[CircusRide]

[quote=amanda;521167]The torch is back in Bejing after all.[/quote0

Is it still lit? :smt118



Yeah. They're not even covering Stephen Colbert's North Carolina coverage this week (except on Larry King last night, and po' ol' Larry didn't even "get it" when Colbert talked about Obama passing around the "change bong").

By the way, I got my invite to go to NC today. Need to sign up, I reckon.

Maybe I'll get to say at the Y.

:smt118

I always enjoy eating there. They've got a nice spread.

[Conveyor Belt]

I donno. If people let themselves be led by a tyrant, my position is they get what they deserve. And if they let the tyrant harm their children, then, well, sometimes that's how good things come to pass... not in the harming of children, but that it happened and people take notice and take action.

Is every polygomist a child molestor? Not any more than every monogomist is.

If we applied today's standards to our countries founders, then we'd be SOL. Every town was some sort of religious sect. You know Oneida silverware? That was started in a religious sect colony with some ideas that'd make the FLDS goings on about as promiscuous as two oak trees getting it on.

It's a fine, fine line to walk. Very, very fine.

I think the general mindset in the US is against polygomy and they'll use any excuse to smear someone who practices it.

Me, I'm for whatever. If you wanna marry 4 women, or 5 men, or 6 horses and a rabbit, so be it. I don't care. Just don't hurt any of them. If you wanna get it on with your sister or brother, I think that's a bit gross, but whatever, man... you go ahead. I'm just a bit liberal in ideas when it comes to sex and love. You do whatever you gotta do, just don't make someone do it against their will, or inflict malicious pain while doing it. (All you masochists out there, you can have all the pain you want, just make it loving)

[Reason]

It boils down to this: Do and believe what you want - just don't harm others in doing so, or limit their freedom to do what they wish.

If a murder, or a rape, or something awful takes place in your home or your church, someone must alert the authorities - because the government has no right to diddle in your privacy unless they have a warrant or believe someone's life is in danger.

With all this in mind, it begs the question: Is religious indoctrination itself something that could be considered harmful? If so, which religions and what beliefs?

[dollfus46]

Has anyone heard what that creap, Bill Mahr said about the Pope (on his coming to the U.S.)?
My poll is: Should garbage like that be allowed to live? If he talked about Muhammad like he does the Pope, the answer would be No.

[dollfus46]

[quote=SueScribe;521174]

I always enjoy eating there. They've got a nice spread.
"I don't care who you are, THAT'S funny right there." - Larry :clap:

[dollfus46]

It boils down to this: Do and believe what you want - just don't harm others in doing so, or limit their freedom to do what they wish.

If a murder, or a rape, or something awful takes place in your home or your church, someone must alert the authorities - because the government has no right to diddle in your privacy unless they have a warrant or believe someone's life is in danger.

With all this in mind, it begs the question: Is religious indoctrination itself something that could be considered harmful? If so, which religions and what beliefs?
I get real defensive when atheists use the term "indoctrination" when talking about religion. My experience has been they often use it rather freely, like the word "racist" is tossed about.

[mi_nombre_es]

I agree that the state should step in and help the kids but to break up a whole religion, that borders on church and state seperation. Arrest the people who are doing bad stuff (yet we don't arrest priests who molest children)....but leave the religion in tact. People need all the hope they can cling to, just so they can go from day to day without just thinking life is not worth living.

[Blockhead]

What with the cable news channels going ape-poop over the Polygymist sect in Texas right now (and, I have a general question: What's up with Texas as these freak-o's? Is Texas giving away large chunks of bramble bush-land to outlanders or what, exactly?)

Anyway. Let's vote on something out of the political mainstream and into the Religious Freedom wild river:

What do you think? Should the government have interferred, removed these children, en masse, or not? Do you think it is an infringement upon our Constitutional guarantees to practice freedom of religion?
We only have freedom of popular religion in America. Little freedom from it, unfortunately.

But, child endangerment laws should always supersede any religious nonsense.

*glances towards catholic priests*

[SueScribe]

. . .With all this in mind, it begs the question: Is religious indoctrination itself something that could be considered harmful? If so, which religions and what beliefs?

When religious indoctrination crosses the line to include child abuse (hello, out there, all churches who allow same to happen), or brain-washing to the extent that dozens of devotees line up for the tainted Koolaid, yes - that's harmful.

Believe what you want "religiously", just keep me out of it, don't force me to believe it, don't "dis" me if I disagree, and by all means -

Teachers? LEAVE THOSE KIDS ALONE.

"All in all, it's justa' -
`nuther brick in The Wall."