Tobacco Tax

[fuzzis]

Granted, I have never struggled with nicotine addiction so I don't know what that's all about (I have on occasion enjoyed a nice cigar, but that's another story...), but I can't quite understand under what conception of the world cigarettes are more important than food. I used to work with a woman who was incredibly poor, always talking about how little money she had, how she couldn't afford groceries, couldn't pay the light bill this month, was about to get evicted the next, but she had a two-pack a day habit that was continously fed.

All that to say that I find the objections offered in the HA article (http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060103/NEWS01/601030302/1002) that relate to economics...adults going to Alabama and Tennessee where cigarettes would be cheaper (are you really going to drive an hour and a half for a pack of cigarettes when you really need one and didn't realize you were out?) and financial stress for smokers...to be pretty weak.

:smt102

fuzzis

[lamarrebel]

I'm going to say that I agree with Lt. Governor Tuck's proposal of yesterday and would encourage the Governor to support it as well. Tuck is proposing a revenue neutral 50 cent per pack tax increase for cigarette purchases coupled with a cut in the sales tax on groceries in an amount that would offset the increased cigarette tax revenue.

I believe firmly in individual responsibility, and smokers who endanger their own health's shouldn't get a free ride from the government (Medicaid) once they are stricken with cancer, emphysema and other smoke-related ailments. By paying this increased tax, they can pay for their own future illnesses caused by their lifestyle choices. Further, any measure that might encourage smokers to kick the habit we should support.

By cutting the sales tax on food, we offset the revenue increase and resist "feeding the beast". Food is (obviously) necessary for living, and a cut in the grocery sales tax would particularly help the poor who struggle to make ends meet, but would provide tax relief for all Mississippians.

I would go one step further, I would raise the casino tax rate to a level that is still less than Louisiana and other states, but to close somewhat the very large gap in tax rates that now exists (Miss is 8 percent and Louisiana and some other states are 15 percent and more). I would, similarly, offset this by cutting income tax rates for Mississippians.

[happydamyankee]

Gee I can't help but wonder why it is that smokers should carry the burden of the states tax problems? Why not the drinkers? Is that a necessity? Why not gasoline? Maybe people would stop running around so much polluting the air. Gee ok food is a necessity but not all food why not raise the taxes on junk food, soda, chocolate? How about fast food? Why should just one group of people have to pay more? Drinkers have their own set of health problems, so do fat people that eat too much junk food, maybe if it cost more to drive more people would walk more. And why should some get a tax break and others have to pay more? Why shouldn't the tax burden fall evenly on everyone? I guess it's the easy way out.

[fuzzis]

I would be in favor of taxing cigarettes, alcohol and junk food equally. And, I would actually be in favor of raising taxes on gasoline as well...as long as there was some provision for providing adequate public transportation systems and sidewalks.

fuzzis

[lamarrebel]

Why shouldn't the tax burden fall evenly on everyone? I guess it's the easy way out.

The answer is because smokers often disproportionately benefit from state services. By choosing not to smoke, I run a far lesser risk of having lung cancer, emphysema and other cancer related ailments. Many who suffer from these conditions end up on Medicaid costing the state millions of dollars annually. My sales tax dollars on food, income, etc are paying for this. Thus, why not make smokers pay a greater burden for the health conditions that they themselves helped create? As far as junk food goes, I would exempt those items (as best as they could be identified) from the grocery sales tax cut and I have little doubt that alcohol products would not fall under the cut.

Many larger municipalities also to an extent do what you are talking about with regard to fast food and restaurants in general by adding two cents to the sales tax on those items. I do not know of any state that has adopted a statewide tax like this, however. Alcohol of course is taxed beyond the normal sales tax as well. With regard to cigarettes, Mississippi currently taxes then at the 4th lowest rate in the nation 18 cents a pack, versus a national average of around 69 cents per pack. This tax has not been increased since the early 1980s, and such an increase would simply be on par with the national average and inflation over the past twenty plus years.

[lamarrebel]

I'm not in favor of a tax increase or "growing the beast". I am in favor of slightly shifting the tax burden with little or no effect on overall revenue. Raising the cigarette tax, I believe, is entirely consistent with the conservative ideals of individual responsibility. Many (certainly not all by any means) people who smoke are people who don't have health insurance and really can't afford the habit. Many of these people who end up with smoking related ailments end up on Medicaid and all of us end up paying for it. What is wrong with making smokers pay for their own future health care for health problems they largely brought on themselves? I submit nothing.

[justme]

I am currently suffering through the effects of having a family member with an addiction to tobacco. My father was diagnosed with stage III non small cell lung cancer in October. He previously had a lesser stage non small cell lung cancer in 1999. In 99 he was in the hospial for 2 1/2 months. He lost half of a lung and both of his lungs collapsed, so they did a procedure so that they were premanently affixed to his chest cavity. even after 2 months without a cigarette, he left the hospital and my sister busted him at the gas station, where he ran from her becuase he was caught buying cigarettes.

There is no amount of tax that would keep my Dad from smoking. He just went from smoking a name brand to smoking these horrible generic kinds.

My mother- in- law had a similar kind of cancer in 99 as well and she is still smoking. She also has no concern about the cost, she is going to smoke anyway.

These are elderly people on fixed incomes, they are going to smoke and they are going to have poor health beucase of it.

Money should be spent to educate our youth on the dangers of beginning smoking. I have friends who worked for the Partnership for a Healthy Mississippi and they have seen measurable results, a reduction of the number of adolescents who smoke. I have noticed personally that of the college age women that I advise, the number of smokers has drastically reduced since I was in college.

I think that it is a cultural thing, and back in the day, these people who are now our senior citizens, who need our care and support, were not taught not to begin smoking, as their parents probably smoked, as well as everyone else they knew.

An increased tax is not the answer, spend the money on educating our youth on the dangers of tobacco use, alcohol, and unprotected sex. ( lumped those in for good measure since we have babies out of wedlock we have to pay for with tax dollars, and teenagers who kill themselves and others drinking and driving)

[fuzzis]

An increased tax is not the answer, spend the money on educating our youth on the dangers of tobacco use, alcohol, and unprotected sex. ( lumped those in for good measure since we have babies out of wedlock we have to pay for with tax dollars, and teenagers who kill themselves and others drinking and driving)

So where does that money come from if not from an increased tax?

fuzzis

[MSQueen]

ok, first let me say that i've resisted getting really involved in any of the subjects in this forum since i recently joined. i guess one reason is that it involves more time, more thinking, and therefore, usually gives me a headache by the time i'm through truly expressing my opinion! (you may also have a headache after reading this -- look how long it is!!!) also, i guess i know that everybody has a different opinion, that mine may not sit well with some here, or that i may offend someone, which is not my intent. however, sometimes you have to be really honest with YOURSELF and be TRUE TO YOURSELF, and i guess that's the point i have finally reached here. so, here goes, and let me say that i am simply stating my opinion and hopefully i can stand up to whatever criticisms my opinions may bring...

i am ex-smoker. i first started trying to smoke when i was about 12 living on a military base to "fit in" with the crowd and to be "cool". at that time, i didn't even know how to inhale, and when i finally did TRY to inhale, i would almost get sick. so, when i moved back to mississippi when i was 13 and in high school and was smoking, everybody here thought i was really bad and "cheap". so i stopped smoking -- no problem, i wasn't "hooked", just thought it was cool at the time. i again started smoking when i was a senior in high school -- again to be "cool" when i was going out partying with my friends. i didn't really care for the taste or anything, just that i thought it was "cool". well, several years of trying to be "cool", and when there were a couple of times i found myself without cigarettes, in finally realized that i was "hooked" -- i had to go out and buy cigarettes. even when i lived in the country and had no transportation when i was first married and only 19 yrs old, when i would run out, i would go around the house finding parts of cigarettes left in ash trays to light up -- uggghhh! i know, it was disgusting, and i didn't want to do that at the time, but -- i was "hooked"! as the years went by, i had my first son when i was 22, and i smoked throughout my pregnancy -- yes, i know -- how irresponsible and stupid. at that time there wasn't any really big push that there is today about smoking, much less smoking while pregnant, although my doc did say i shouldn't smoke. thank god, my son had no apparent problems from my smoking while i was pregnant and continuing to smoke until he was grown and out of the house. also, as the years went by, the amount of cigarettes i smoked everyday continued to increase to 1-1/2 packs, then to 2 packs, then to 2+ packs a day. i had my second and last child, another son, in 1978, and again, smoked throughout the pregnancy, although my doc really harped on me the whole time, and the hospitals were just then trying to ENCOURAGE people not to smoke in the hospital. i still smoked in my hospital room after he was born, although the nurses frowned on it, but didn't say anything to me. i figured i was paying for that room, so if i wanted to smoke, they weren't going to stop me! once again, the good Lord seemed to look after my second son, and he has suffered no apparent problems from my smoking. (let me also say that my husband also smoked during our entire marriage)
several times in the 90's my husband and i have both tried to quit smoking. my hubby actually did quit for about 6 months after going through smokestoppers at wesley, but started back. all the while, i continued smoking away. a few years later, my hubby and i both went to smokestoppers, but neither of us quit. i even went to a doctor in jackson and paid $100 to be hypnotized to quit smoking. i was wanting a cigarette desperately before we got back home, and was smoking again the next day! i constantly had bronchitis, sinus infections, and even had pneumonia several times. (i also had double pneumonia when i was 5 mo. old and almost died, and my mother BEGGED me not to ever smoke when i got older -- although she and my dad smoked for years) (ALSO, NO PUBLIC ASSISTANCE with paying for my medical problems... just so you know).
then, on march 27, 2001, my husband and i signed up and went to a local seminar to be hypnotized to quit smoking. i think there was a nominal fee to go, and of course, the cost would be at the end if you bought there products, ie, tapes, pills, etc. i was really ready to quit at that time, especially since i knew what it was doing to my health, how i felt that the public was putting more pressure on smokers at that time, and the cost (which was at that time, i think, right under or about $2 a pack) well, long story short here -- I QUIT SMOKING THAT NIGHT -- March 27, 2001, and have not smoked since then! Of course, I will have to say that I couldn't have done it without the help of Jesus (sorry, not meaning to make this religious, but I HAVE to be truthful and give the praise where it is due), since I had been praying and had told him that I had to have his help since I had failed all the times I had tried before. (btw, it didn't work for my hubby, and he still smokes) Needless to say, there are still times that I crave a cigarette, but I know that that was the HARDEST THING I HAVE EVER DONE IN MY LIFE! I have never tackled any other type of addiction before that one, and I can kind of relate to people with various other addictions, be it drugs, alcohol, food, etc. Even though I don't smoke anymore, I made a vow to myself before I quit that I wouldn't become one of these "reformed smokers" who completely turns against smokers and tells them how nasty it is, how they bring it on themselves, etc. I HAVE BEEN THERE, AND I KNOW HOW HARD IT IS! Some people are luckier than others in that they can make up their minds to quit, and they do! Good for them. But most are not so lucky. It doesn't mean they are TOO WEAK -- it simply means that they are not STRONG ENOUGH at that point to do it!
my main gripe about the tobacco tax is that the government, on one hand, wants to tell you how bad cigarettes are, blah, blah, blah, and then at the same -- with the other hand, they are continuously "feeding" and subsidizing the tobacco industry! Also, when the state governments decide they need to increase revenue and dont want to offend the greatest number of their peers/voters, they always go for a "sin tax" on items which are "bad" for us and which make users of those items feel "ashamed" and feel that they SHOULD have to pay for their sins!! I don't know that people who have never smoked will ever understand the power of the addiction -- it doesn't matter what it costs. If you have to cut back on groceries or other things to buy your cigarettes, you will! I'm not sure with all of the money that MS has gotten on the tobacco settlement whether they will pay for the programs to help smokers quit smoking. I do believe they have an 800 # that smokers can call for help and maybe some reading materials. But I personally feel that IF governments believe that smoking is that bad in so many ways, that it would help to fund programs that could truly help people quit -- in other words, PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS if you really want people to quit.
One of my questions is that, let's say that the State of MS finally gets all Mississippians to quit smoking -- what then? A big celebration?? I don't think so. I think they will all be looking around for the NEXT "sin tax" project, since there revenues will have substantially dried up from cigarettes!
It's kind of like, okay, if you don't like what i'm doing and it's so bad for everyone, and you know that it is really hard to stop, why not help me find a way to quit? it's my problem, you say, and I created it, so I need to fix it, and you don't want to pay for it. well, as you say, we are all paying for it regardless. why not pay for programs to help those who truly want to quit?
Okay, I think I've kinda made several points -- and hopefully helped some of you to see a little bit different point of view.
Alright, I'm fixing to go get my crash helmet on and wait for the fallout...

:smt103

[justme]

So where does that money come from if not from an increased tax?

fuzzis

Right now the program ran in the state is the Partnership for Healthy Mississippi- it is funded through the Tobbaco Trust fund and each year the legislature trys to take the money away and use if for other things. They do not receive any money from an increased tax or the current tax on tobacco

[lamarrebel]

I understand the good intetions of the Partnership for a Healthy Mississippi, but the current mechanism from which it exists is unconstitutional, and I believe our State Supreme Court is going to ultimately agree with me on this. Governor Barbour and Tate Reeves are absolutely correct about this. Our Legislature has the sole authority to appropriate state funds, not a Mike Moore crony Chancery Judge from Jackson County, whom the voters of 79 out Mississippi's 82 counties didn't elect. If our Legislature wants to give $20 mil to the Partnership, that is its perrogative, but the way it was created absolutely reeked of unconstituionality.

[justme]

I understand the good intetions of the Partnership for a Healthy Mississippi, but the current mechanism from which it exists is unconstitutional, and I believe our State Supreme Court is going to ultimately agree with me on this. Governor Barbour and Tate Reeves are absolutely correct about this. Our Legislature has the sole authority to appropriate state funds, not a Mike Moore crony Chancery Judge from Jackson County, whom the voters of 79 out Mississippi's 82 counties didn't elect. If our Legislature wants to give $20 mil to the Partnership, that is its perrogative, but the way it was created absolutely reeked of unconstituionality.

Funny- I thought it was part of the settlement. ie- per a contract for the settlement of the claims made between the state of Mississippi and the Tobacco companies. If the state of Mississippi can sue tobacco companies, then certainly when it enters in a contract for the settlement of the claim, it can provide this as a term of the settlement agreement (contract). If what your saying is true - then what the h*ll dump all the money in the general fund and give it to the schools and other people that need it. We don't have all that casino money coming in now to pay for our schools- we have to make it up somewhere.

[fuzzis]

I know that some states (NV being one of them) used the bulk of their tobacco settlement to fund things like scholarships to state schools for students who had and maintained a certain GPA (and some of those programs are now in jeopardy as the pay-outs have been decreasing?). While I love that idea, I knew quite understood how that related to cessation programs.

fuzzis