Cindy Sheehan did *NOT* call our troops "terrorists"

[fuzzis]

In another thread, TheDoc asked me if I condemned Cindy Sheehan's calling our troops "terrorists". I didn't recall that she'd done that, so I asked him for a link to that story. He told me it was old news and I could search if I wanted.

I can't find any reference to her calling our troops "terrorists". I did find multiple references to her calling the insurgents in Iraq "freedom fighters". And I did find a quote from O'Reilly's appearance on the David Letterman show, in which O'Reilly *implies* that she's called our troops terrorists. However, when one looks at his quote, it is clear that she didn't in fact call our troops terrorists:

The soldiers and Marines are noble, they're not terrorists. And when people call them that, like Cindy Sheehan -- called the insurgents "freedom fighters," we don't like that. It is a vitally important time in American history, and we should all take it very seriously and be very careful about what we say. Bill O'Reilly, January 3, 2006

It seems that people like O'Reilly and TheDoc should yes take it very seriously and be *very* careful about what they say. If you're going to attack the woman, at least let it be for something she's actually said or done (and she's said and done some incredibly stupid things). Don't put words in the woman's mouth because you want to score a point.

fuzzis

[IGID]

The day will come when her son slaps her in the face. That's all I say about what she's done. :Headz: :Headz:

[fuzzis]

The day will come when her son slaps her in the face. That's all I say about what she's done. :Headz: :Headz:

He might, but I kinda doubt it. There's something about that whole state-of-grace thing and heavenly peace and all. I don't know how well a slap would go over in heaven. :smt102

Not having ever had children, I can't say what I would do in my grief...or how I would allow myself to be used as a result of my grief. I know that my uncle's wife bought a house around the corner from the cemetary and goes to sit on her son's grave daily, just so she can "hold him"...takes her 13 year old son there every day after school so he can commune as well. I'd venture a guess to say that Cindy Sheehan is a expressing her grief a bit more healthfully than my uncle's wife.

fuzzis

[IGID]

Maybe so, but she shouldn't be disgracing her son by using his death for her own political agenda. He was a soldier that joined on his own free will and died defending the rights of all Americans and she shouldn't be blaming others for his committment.

[reality]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45938

[fuzzis]

"Disgrace" is a rather subjective term, I think, and perhaps we're not qualified to determine what would be disgraceful to Casey Sheehan. My grandparents thought it was disgraceful that I lived with a man without the benefit of marriage; I think it's disgraceful my brother has been in and out of jail since he was 15.

I didn't know Casey Sheehan, so I find it a bit difficult to say what he would term a disgrace. I can say that I don't agree with much of what she's done since her first protest, but further than that...I suppose I think that's what her son died for and castigation is a bit unnecessary. :smt102

fuzzis

[fuzzis]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45938

Nowhere in that article does it say that Sheehan called our troops terrorists. Nowhere in that article is there a direct quote from her saying that our troops are terrorists. She does say that the presence of our troops has increased terrorist activity in Iraq, but that is not the same as calling our troops terrorists.

fuzzis

[IGID]

I wouldn't be so against what she is doing if she would have been protesting before he was killed. He, and many others, have died for her to have that right, but I don't remember seeing her camp next to the Presidents ranch before he died.

[fuzzis]

Grief prompts all kinds of actions and reactions. Sometimes trauma makes clear an emotion or idea that was only hazily known before. Was the mother who founded MADD doing work against drunk drivers before her child was killed? Did John Walsh get involved in finding criminals before his son was abducted? What about the parents who spearheaded Megan's law? The list could go on.

fuzzis

[IGID]

All of those other people and organizations can and have made a difference. I doubt very seriously that she can make a difference in President Bush' decision to take the fight to them before they bring it to us, again, or pull out of Iraq. Having served my country, I can tell you that her son is spinning in his grave and looking forward to the day to see her again.

[fuzzis]

If it makes a difference to her (and others like her), does it matter whether you think it makes a difference? If her actions get people thinking (and talking) about what's happening and why, then she's served a purpose. Perhaps not the one that she wants, but a useful purpose nonetheless.

Again...I think you get into trouble when you ascribe your feelings to Casey Sheehan. You didn't know him. It is not out of the realm of possibility that he appreciates what his mother is doing. As he cannot speak for himself, I'm not sure it's such a good idea to attempt to speak for him. There's too much we don't know about him, his relationship with his mother, his motivations for signing on, etc. We can talk about ourselves, but we can't really speak with surity about others.

I really appreciate your participating in this thread, and I don't mean to pick at you.

fuzzis

[IGID]

I know him because I know the type of person that joins the military and goes into the infantry because thats what I volunteered for also. There are hundreds of other jobs in the military that any of us could have taken, but those that want infantry are a special breed and they live and breath to fight. Maybe not some of the weekend warriors that join for that check, but the ones that join regular Army or Marines, join to go to war and thats where he was. So I have a pretty good idea of his mindset and one day I'll ask him if he was ashamed of his mother as I think he is.

[fuzzis]

Like I said...we can speak about ourselves, but we get into trouble when we make assumptions about others.

As for being ashamed of his mother...I don't know about an afterlife, but I know how forgiveness and love work in life. It is a difficult struggle to let go of the unthinkable, to truly forgive, but it is possible, particularly if you love the person, particularly if you care about yourself. I would except that with the concept of a heaven and a forgiving god, forgiveness and understanding aren't nearly such momumental undertakings, and things like shame, pain, regret aren't really a part of the plan. Those things are for the unlucky who remain.

fuzzis

[IGID]

Obviously we're on opposite sides of the aisle, and that's ok. Thats why we live in America. Just curious, do you always have to have the last word in your household too?

[fuzzis]

:smt042

That's actually not a very nice thing you've done there. You asked me a question, which one would assume requires a response, but the question you've asked makes a response confirmation of your assumption. It's one of those damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't things.

To answer, though, perhaps. Since I live alone, I would suppose yes. However, I tend towards the "you know what, you're right" response whether I actually think that or not. Perhaps the only time I tends toward confrontation is professionally. The rest of it, though, I don't find the angst worth it.

Kind of thought we were having a discussion here. :smt102

fuzzis

[IGID]

We were.It was a friendly question in jest. Obviously, I'm a Police Officer so, professionally I work everyday in confrontation to one degree or another. But I respect everybodies opinions because we all have one and I will do my duty to protect everyone to the best of my ability regardless if I agree with them or not. That includes you too. ; )

[fuzzis]

We were.It was a friendly question in jest. Obviously, I'm a Police Officer so, professionally I work everyday in confrontation to one degree or another. But I respect everybodies opinions because we all have one and I will do my duty to protect everyone to the best of my ability regardless if I agree with them or not. That includes you too. ; )

I have the highest degree of respect for police officers. Dated/lived with one for 6 1/2 years (his sister, brother, and mother were also officers). And my Father Confessor Big Daddy Protector is a deputy. That reminds me...I need to call him. :-D

fuzzis

[sackett22]

If she is so against Bush and his war why did she meet with him and other parents who had lost children due to the war. She had a meeting with him at Fort Lewis in Seattle, WA. In her own words.

"That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together," Cindy said.

She says they were upset with the President and the war. So why even meet with him?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1461469/posts

[sackett22]

The full account of meeting in Seattle, WA

Since learning in April that their son, Army Spc. Casey Sheehan, had been killed in Iraq, life has been everything but normal for the Sheehan family of Vacaville.
Casey's parents, Cindy and Patrick, as well as their three children, have attended event after event honoring the soldier both locally and abroad, received countless letters of support and fielded questions from reporters across the country.

"That's the way our whole lives have been since April 4," Patrick said. "It's been surreal."

But none of that prepared the family for the message left on their answering machine last week, inviting them to have a face-to-face meeting with President George W. Bush at Fort Lewis near Seattle.

Surreal soon seemed like an understatement, as the Sheehans - one of 17 families who met Thursday with Bush - were whisked in a matter of days to the Army post and given the VIP treatment from the military. But as their meeting with the president approached, the family was faced with a dilemma as to what to say when faced with Casey's commander-in-chief.

"We haven't been happy with the way the war has been handled," Cindy said. "The president has changed his reasons for being over there every time a reason is proven false or an objective reached."

The 10 minutes of face time with the president could have given the family a chance to vent their frustrations or ask Bush some of the difficult questions they have been asking themselves, such as whether Casey's sacrifice would make the world a safer place.

But in the end, the family decided against such talk, deferring to how they believed Casey would have wanted them to act. In addition, Pat noted that Bush wasn't stumping for votes or trying to gain a political edge for the upcoming election.

"We have a lot of respect for the office of the president, and I have a new respect for him because he was sincere and he didn't have to take the time to meet with us," Pat said.

Sincerity was something Cindy had hoped to find in the meeting. Shortly after Casey died, Bush sent the family a form letter expressing his condolences, and Cindy said she felt it was an impersonal gesture.

"I now know he's sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis," Cindy said after their meeting. "I know he's sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he's a man of faith."

The meeting didn't last long, but in their time with Bush, Cindy spoke about Casey and asked the president to make her son's sacrifice count for something. They also spoke of their faith.

While meeting with Bush, as well as Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, was an honor, it was almost a tangent benefit of the trip. The Sheehans said they enjoyed meeting the other families of fallen soldiers, sharing stories, contact information, grief and support.

For some, grief was still visceral and raw, while for others it had melted into the background of their lives, the pain as common as breathing. Cindy said she saw her reflection in the troubled eyes of each.

"It's hard to lose a son," she said. "But we (all) lost a son in the Iraqi war."

The trip had one benefit that none of the Sheehans expected.

For a moment, life returned to the way it was before Casey died. They laughed, joked and bickered playfully as they briefly toured Seattle.

For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again.

"That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together," Cindy said.

[fuzzis]

If she is so against Bush and his war why did she meet with him and other parents who had lost children due to the war. She had a meeting with him at Fort Lewis in Seattle, WA. In her own words.

"That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together," Cindy said.

She says they were upset with the President and the war. So why even meet with him?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1461469/posts

Why NOT meet with him? By that logic, none of the Republicans or Democrats would ever get together and discuss things. You don't get anywhere if you don't talk.

As I've said, I don't agree with all that Cindy Sheehan has done (and I think she's made a lot of incredibly stupid mistakes). However, I'm not going to malign the woman OR accuse her of saying something she did not.

fuzzis

[sackett22]

I understand that. I know she never called our troops Terrorists, but if you look at some of the quotes she has made that are on the internet, I think the woman is nuts. Losing a child must be devastating, but protesting outside a ranch isn't helping. Go to the White House and get some answers. Thats what I would do.

[fuzzis]

We do what we think is best for us individually, what we think will get us some sort of response or action. :smt102

fuzzis