Will the MS legislature override the veto?

[wilebill]

Will the MS Legislature override the governor's veto of the cigarette tax? It has to start in the senate, but they haven't taken it up yet.

[Tully Mars]

In my opinion and the opinion of many others, the bill was ill conceived and not well thought out to begin with. I think that the more time they have to consider the comprehensive impacts of such a bill the less likely they are to override the veto.

[wilebill]

I think the governor is right on this one. Now is not the time to be cutting revenue, which I think this bill will do.

[Tully Mars]

I think the governor is right on this one. Now is not the time to be cutting revenue, which I think this bill will do.

More to the point, as the grocery tax is phased out and the tobacco tax increases there will be less revenue to small communities that rely on sales tax revenues that will result in an increase in other local taxes such as property taxes. I don't think that the tobacco tax can make up the difference given the number of people likely to quit smoking due to higher prices per pack.

[lamarrebel]

I was in the Capitol Thursday, and even one of the Senate supporters of the bill told me that the Governor now has the votes to sustain the veto. The fact that Amy Tuck didn't bring it up for a vote yesterday as expected, leads me to believe that she's now looking for a way to save face.

[lamarrebel]

Another thing we need to consider is the timing of this bill. As i've said in other posts, we will make ourselves look very silly by cutting revenue at a time when we have our hands out to the Federal government asking for billions of dollars in Katrina relief and rebuilding. More specifiically, a bill is before Congress right to waive our normal Medicaid funding matching requirement. Putting this bill into law could very well lead to Congress cutting off the Medicaid relief.

I say let's revisit this in a year or two when our situation is more stabilized.

Hawk, of course you are right that folks in Sumrall, Collins, Purvis and other small communities visit Wal-Mart, but they also visit the Ramey's and Sunflowers of the world too. Many ppl don't have the time or want to deal with traffic of Hattiesburg and with gas prices the way they are, the find that they are saving a lot less as well by making the trip. Grocery sales tax revenue is a very large portion of the budget of small places like these, and this bill IMO over time would greatly devestate the. If places like Sumrall had to raise their ad valorum millage to cover for this, you would see people move out and property values go down. Small towns are struggling enough as it is.

[lamarrebel]

Hawk, I don't at all disagree with you on tobacco....I've long said I'm in favor of raising the tobacco tax so long as it is offset somewhere else, lest we feed the beast of big government. My problem is just with the specific mechanics and the timing of this bill.

[Conveyor Belt]

Honestly, when has the state EVER been in a position to cut funds? In my memory, we're always running a shortfall for the year. The beef plant is just a MAJOR example of state government mis-spendings. I'm sure there are other less costly complete wastes of money, but are someone's pet project, so to them, it's all that matters.

From what I heard on a radio interview, only 18% of that money is actually returned to the small towns and communities it is collected in. When I was growing up, not that long ago, there were still unpaved roads around here. Did they get paved from Federal grant money, or state tax money? I don't know, that's not rhetorical. Alot of these small towns that only have one grocery store and maybe a gas station and a bank are not full time towns. Yet, I'm sure their mayors draw a full time salary. Every city or small town is not destined for greatness. Some are destined to be just what they are, declining in population each year as economic progress migrates from one area of the country/world to another. Can someone still live there? Sure. Will they have to revert to the old ways of life? Self sustained farming will make a comeback or the people will have to create a new industry or drive for hours to get the newest groceries. Every town does not deserve nor need a WalMart. Convenience is just that.

I voted no, because I honestly don't think they have the votes to over-ride. I'm surprised it passed in the first place. If it wasn't for the "Evil" tobacco to play the scapegoat, I don't think it would've passed. I do think it's interesting how a Republican Governor who has commented on taxes before vetoes a tax break. I can understand his thought, and the supporters of his idea about this bill. I don't agree. I say let them sink or swim.

The full effect of this bill wouldn't hit until years from now. In the middle time, there's a period of adjustment where the small towns adjust their budgets and find new ways to cut or improve revenue. This has little to do with Katrina. The coastal counties will receive the money they need from the federal government. Most of the places worth looking at were insured or are receiving settlement money. The places that weren't, do you really want to see back there? The places that are having the issue with wind/flood will prevail in the end, IMO.

It was a nice hope, while it lasted. Too bad I can't put on my magic mind changer and make everyone who mattered see it my way.

[Tully Mars]

Hubba, with all due respect, a bill with perfect mechanics and timing has never existed. Personally, I was impressed that someone in our legislature may have had a good idea to help the average, bluecollar working family; a time when the tax coffers runneth over as food cost continue to escalate by virture of ever increasing fuel cost. And, at a time when everyone in gov't continues to give themselves yearly pay increases, this was indeed a greedy veto.

I understand your lockstep following of the state's GOP Godfather, but I'm still waiting to hear Skoal dipper Tully's logic in favor of this veto.

When I hear the term used, "for the greater good", I look for the sheep hearding cowboy over my shoulder.

"More to the point, as the grocery tax is phased out and the tobacco tax increases there will be less revenue to small communities that rely on sales tax revenues that will result in an increase in other local taxes such as property taxes. I don't think that the tobacco tax can make up the difference given the number of people likely to quit smoking due to higher prices per pack."

[wilebill]

Dang, I guess I should have asked should the legislature override instead of will they, since everybody's talking about, and probably voting about, the former.

I was thinking more about what kind of clout the gov could muster up, not exactly the merits, or lack thereof, of the tax.

I think the gov will get the votes he needs.

[Claire Voyent]

I sense that the governor will prevail.

[Conveyor Belt]

I believe the Alito filibuster talk is just that talk... But that's OT, so I'm not really interested in mutterings by Kerry and followers.

Like I stated before, the mayor of a small town on "The Hub" talk station was saying that they send in all of their sales tax to the state and the state sends them a check back for roughly 18% of what they submitted. That is assinine to me. What does the state government do that requires 82% of a business sales tax?

I tell you what would be great, let's put a tax on all alcohol at 1/2cent per ounce. A 6pack would be 36cents more. That's not such a large amount, but it would be something. It adds up. It can be argued that it's not a staple..

We're not getting a return on our 82% investment. Something's gotta give, but we all know that it won't because sheep vote. No one really cares as long as their cable's working and the a/c stays on. Citizens are soft and politically stupid. They believe what they hear.

I also agree that if by some miracle, this bill is ever passed, small towns will find a way to maintain the status quo, rather than adapting to fit their smaller status. Everyone wants to be important.

Barbour will get his veto upheld. Alito will be confirmed. The team with the most points will win next Sunday.

[lamarrebel]

FTR, there is a Super Wal-Mart in Picayune...which is 20-25 miles away from Poplarville...Hattiesburg's SWM is at least 30 miles away. I would agree that folks from there make trips to Wal-Mart as an exception rather than the norm.

I also agree that there is no tax bill with perfect mechanics, but this one appears to not even come close. Before I studied the proposal more closely, I was, at first, inclined to support it as well, and I'm sure the Hawk doesn't need reminded that Amy Tuck is a Republican, too, one that I'd worked very hard for in 2003 (the thought of Barbara Blackmon in that office still makes me shudder).

From what I've been able to observe, the bill would only be revenue neutral for about the first two years, while the grocery tax is reduced to 4.5 cents, but once it is phased out the budget gap would explode. We've had to make huge budget cuts in recent years as our state has climbed out of a recession. I just don't think that that this is a fiscally sound course to take for our state at this time.

[lamarrebel]

I'll be there with you, Hawk...except I don't smoke. Texas doesn't have a grocery tax, but property taxes were through the roof there. I would estimate that the property taxes on my mothers house is at least twice what it would be in Lamar County, even after the school bond's passage. The overall sales tax is higher in Texas as well (7.75 percent). I'm afraid we'd be going down the same path here down the road if this proposal becomes law.

[Conveyor Belt]

All I can respond is, it's damn shame we can't vote on it.
C'mon, now. It's not like we're living in a democracy or anything. It's a republic.

[geezerjoe]

I can't believe that the people that are pushing things like this cigarette tax will say in one breath "It will raise x amount of dollars", and then turn around and say "Plus as the cost of smoking rises, the number of smokers decreases".

*blink* *blink*

So ....

DON'T YOU THINK YOUR $$$ ESTIMATES MIGHT BE A TOUCH HIGH?!?

[lamarrebel]

From what I am gathering, it is increasingly unlikely the veto override vote is even going to be attempted. The Governor has the votes, and the effort is being made, I think, to smooth this over between the Gov. Barbour and Lt. Gov. Tuck.